is serena williams overrated?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by 8pNADAL, Oct 12, 2009.

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is serena williams overrated?

  1. nahhhhhhhhhhh

    44 vote(s)
    44.9%
  2. yuhhhhhhhhhhh

    54 vote(s)
    55.1%
  1. 8pNADAL

    8pNADAL Banned

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    i don't think she belongs on the top level with graf/navratilova etc., she hits a lot of unforced errors, and seems to lack powers of concentration at times, her game is not consistent enough to be a goat, or do people just point to the 'serena slam' and say her best form is better than graf?
     
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  2. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    This is epic fail.
     
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  3. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    For sure Serena benefitted from Henin/Kim early retirement, and Sharapova non-existent in 2008 b/c of the shoulder injury.

    Winning slams without them is alot easier.
     
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  4. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Ask her weighing scale. It will tell you that Serena's over......something.
     
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  5. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Just as Henin benefited from Serena's knee injury 2003-2004.
     
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  6. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    The whole wta is overrated. Players take #1 off another players loss, not their win. She hasnt won a tournament in a few months yet moved up in the rankings? Tells you how bad the wta is.
     
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  7. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    That is such an original thought. Never heard that before, ever! :shock:
     
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  8. jones101

    jones101 Hall of Fame

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    She is an underachiever, but definitely not overated, in fact, and I may get flamed for this, I think the variety in her strokes in underrated these days, as people only remember her power.

    She hits with a lot more topspin than in 03, uses angles more, incorporated a slice, lobs frequently etc.

    Any multi slam winner is not overrated IMO.

    This is a thread which was created to ultimatley diss Serena in some form, and I think the ammount of hate she receicves on this board is way too much.

    She has achieved a lot and has had an amazing career. She has had the best career OF ANY WOMAN POST GRAF and this can't be denied, so she obviouly cant be overrated.
     
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  9. jones101

    jones101 Hall of Fame

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    Some people just hate for the sake of hating, I have seen a lot a great matches on the WTA this year and will always defend it.

    Even if the matches are not always of the highest caliber points wise, the tension/drama etc more than makes up for it.
     
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  10. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Ridiculous thread. If anything she is vastly underrated on places like TW planet.
     
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  11. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Serena owns Sharapova. Kim has choked in all her slam finals except the two she played a 30-something women in the twilight of her career and a teenage first time finalist with no major offensive weapons. Henin was playing awful for her standards the first several months of 2008 and her most likely slam wins out of form are the French Open which Serena hasnt won in a long time anyway.
     
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  12. 8pNADAL

    8pNADAL Banned

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    not saying shes overrated for being a multislam champion, but she is overrated for being compared to graf (which she has been compared to by many)
     
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  13. World Beater

    World Beater Hall of Fame

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    yeah well.

    it happened in the atp too. didnt kafelnikov lose like 6 six straight times when he was #1 and then moya and rafter became #1. not sure whether they won anything or if the previous guy lost.

    clijsters and henin are back to restore order. this will reinvigorate williams as well. the tour will become competetive again.
     
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  14. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    I think maybe in terms of this year alone she is slightly overrated. Yes she has won 2 slams but she hasn't won a single non slam tournament this year (hasn't won one since Charleston in 2008, roughly 17 months) and has lost at those tournaments to quite a few people who have done little of note this year, yet she is hailed as by far the best on the tour, which she may be in terms of talent but the results are not there to back it up.

    But, historically, I don't think she is, 11 slams, top 10 all time, she is not overrated. Do I think she is an underachiever, yes I do, in 2003 I fully expected her to have something like 14 or 15 slams right now instead of 11, and more than 50 titles overall, and she doesn't even have 40. How can someone be overrated when most people would agree she is a top 10 all time player, double digit slams, a career slam...and so on.
     
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  15. 1970CRBase

    1970CRBase Guest

    Is Serena Williams overrated? Well, how does she rate herself?

    :D
     
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  16. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    in terms of how she rates herself she is overrated.
     
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  17. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I wouldn't say overrated but she isn't up with Graf and Navratilova for sure,they accomplish a lot more than Serena.

    Overall I do think Serena is a great player and mentally very tough,a great champion.She could have accomplished much more still with her talent and athleticism(as much as Evert,Graf,Navratilova and like IMO)but I'm sure she's personally happy with her career the way it is.
     
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  18. 2 things:

    1. she was hurt by family problems and injuries, so maybe she could have had more slams from 2005-2008. From that aspect, she was unlucky

    2. on the other hand, she won a couple of easy slams since last year's USO, and then got crushed by some fat mommy last month, so perhaps her recent slam successes are a bit questionable. From that aspect, she was lucky

    So, it evens out, I guess.
     
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  19. anointedone

    anointedone Banned

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    I think that is a fair accessment. I do think she had some bad luck with the untimely injury after Wimbledon 2003 when she was dominating and the tragedy of her sisters murder. On the other hand very lucky with Henin missing from all 5 slams she won since mid 2003, and the last 3 won without Henin, Clijsters, or even a healthy Sharapova (I know Kim and Maria were in the semis and finals of the 07 AO but Kim was going through the motions at that point and Maria was already badly injured). So like you said it probably events out.
     
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  20. jelle v

    jelle v Hall of Fame

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    Exactly..

    I get the feeling a lot of people on this board are downplaying her results because they simply hate Serena. Granted, wrong behavior like at the US Open doesn't belong on a tennis court, but all the haters are very eager to hold that against her. All the talk like "she should be banned for a year" is pathetic.

    I have never seen a WTA tennis player that can dominate like Serena can. Granted, it basically just hardhitting, but that's just the way tennis is these days.
     
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  21. jelle v

    jelle v Hall of Fame

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    I don't mean dominate the WTA tour, I mean dominate in matches.. I started watching tennis in 1987 or so. Never have I seen Graf blow away opponents like Serena has done. Note that I'm not saying that Serena is better than Graf, but Serena is far better than a lot of people on this board like to admit. Serena (and Venus) have brought a big evolution in the women's tennisgame.
     
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  22. dannykl

    dannykl Rookie

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    Quite a few wta legends can 'dominate like Serena can' at least, if not be more dominating, say Graf, Court or Nav.

    To say Serena should be banned for a period is 'pathetic',her threating and abusive behavior in the US this year is totally unacceptable and should be properly punished.
     
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  23. dannykl

    dannykl Rookie

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    To say Serena should be banned for a period is not 'pathetic',her threating and abusive behavior in the US this year is totally unacceptable and should be properly punished
     
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  24. jelle v

    jelle v Hall of Fame

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    This is exactly what I mean.. so much hate for Serena.. I'm not going to post 30 posts to defend Serena. :rolleyes:
     
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  25. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    LOL..I guess we can add Serena Williams to the list of players we are not even allowed to be critical of anymore. Just because everyone doesn't heaps tons of praise upon her doesn't make everyone haters. Serena is a great player when at her best, I will not deny that, but she doesn't dominate the game when at her best anymore than Graf, Evert, Court, Lenglen, Wills, Nav or Connolly did at their bests. In fact I would say she dominates it less then they did. Fact is, based on her form and pace in 2002-2003, she is an underacheiver, its not downplaying her results to call her that, and its not downplaying her to state the fact that she hasn't won a non slam tournament in over a year, pretty sad for the current number 1 player in the world if you ask me. I guess I am a hater though for not saying only positive things about Serena all the time though.
     
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  26. Cyan

    Cyan Hall of Fame

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    yuhhhhhhhhhhh. She plays in the muggiest
    WTA era ever. She would be slamless if she played in the hard-c0ck era of the early 90s.
     
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  27. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I'd say that the WS and Henin are the only players from this era that would still have near the level of success they have had in this era had they played in Graf's era. Serena is stronger competition than any player in Graf's era, save for Seles and aging Navratilova. The rest of Graf's competition was really ducks when it comes to talking about all time greats - Sanchez-Vicario was solid, but nothing special, same with Martinez, Sabbatini, though I'd put ASV a level above those players.
     
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  28. LDVTennis

    LDVTennis Professional

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    You started watching tennis in 1987. Did you perhaps skip watching in 1988 and 1989? In 1988, Steffi won 20 straight matches at the majors without losing a set. That led to this comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pMuNAgeemg. When has Serena ever been compared to Lenglen and Wills-Moody? You'll let me know.

    In 1989, Steffi was blowing away her opposition to such a degree that more than one article was written about the fact that her opponents didn't go on the court looking so much to win, but rather looking to keep her out on the court for more than an hour. If you doubt what I am saying, read this http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1126662/index.htm.

    And, to think in 1988 and 1989, Steffi hadn't yet reached her peak level. So, yes, Serena is overrated whenever anyone tries to compare her to Graf. Outside of that comparison, there's not much to distinguish Serena's game from the other ball-bashers of her generation, except her 11 majors.
     
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  29. Cyan

    Cyan Hall of Fame

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    Steffi = female Fed.
     
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  30. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I’m talking about 2008(throw in 2009 AO if you want to). Henin, Maria and Clijsters combined to win a total of 12 GS. Losing Maria after winning the AO was another big blow to the tour. During Serena absent, Serena was competing against slamless players like Jankovic, Safina, Dementieva. Serena had only Venus who gave her trouble, that’s all. And despite of the depleted field, she managed to win only 1 GS that year. Four different player won a slam in 2008, and Serena was not the year end #1. So this is a good case to say Serena is overrated.

    Kim choked in all her slam? Did she choke when she gave Serena a spanking lesson in Flushing?
     
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  31. Cyan

    Cyan Hall of Fame

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    And she plays in a mug era...
     
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  32. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Check out Serena's career head to head with Clijsters and get back to me on her. As for the U.S Open good for Kim finally beating someone like Serena in a slam semi or final. It only took her forever to finally do it. Maybe now she can do it a few more times before she is anointed some goddess of tennis. It will take more than one big win in a slam to erase her history of choking in big matches vs Venus, Serena, Henin, and even Capriati.

    I realize Jankovic, Safina, and Dementieva are much weaker players than Henin, Clijsters, and Sharapova. My point is that while they are higher caliber opponents Serena still owns Sharapova and Clijsters both. Both players have beaten her in a slam only once. Maria hadnt beaten Serena anywhere since 2004. Kim's overall head to head with Serena only speaks for itself. So just because they are alot better players than what Serena has faced while they were out doesnt mean she wouldnt handle them and they would have been beating her, they havent often in the past after all. Only Henin of those 3 is a for sure threat to Serena, but look at how she was playing in early 2008. How do you know she was going to play well enough to take hard and grass court slams from Serena the last 2 years. It looks to me like she had to take the break she did, otherwise her game would have just gone down further. In the form she showed in early 2008 the only slams she would win are French Opens which Serena doesnt win anyway.

    As for 2008 the only result that stands out is the Australian Open where Serena had a dissapointing and surprising quarterfinal loss to Jankovic. The French she isnt that huge a threat anymore. Wimbledon she lost to Venus. U.S Open she won.
     
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  33. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    First off, Serena annoys me. I'm not a Serena fan at all, but I do recognize her superior talent. However, this poll is an epic fail. Ppl seems be voting based on popularity rather than on her skills.
     
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  34. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

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    She sucks because she didn't play when you wanted her to play?

    This thread is full of so many stupid statements. I'm out.
     
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  35. Objective Danny

    Objective Danny Hall of Fame

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    Not only is she overrated, she's also detrimental to the sport!
     
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  36. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Perfect example of someone saying something shocking just to illicit a response, AKA trolling.
     
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  37. dannykl

    dannykl Rookie

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    Totally agreed.
     
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  38. 8pNADAL

    8pNADAL Banned

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    in 1997 hingis was far more dominant than serena
     
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  39. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Rational post. Clijsters is aging, and there's no evidence proving she will end her career (for the 2nd time) as some all-time great player. As it stands, for a slam winner, she's less than average.

    More rational points. Certain members love to accuse Serena of making excuses, yet they generate enough for Henin's when she repeatedly failed to win Wimbledon. There's a reason for that: her game is not suited for that surface, no matter who happens to be on the other side of the net. For all of the hype and desire for her to win Wimbledon as though she's a natural, her cheerleaders still fail to admit Bartoli outplayed Henin in that unforgettable semifinal. Sorry, but Henin had no answers.
     
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  40. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Hingis in 97 was not anymore dominant than Serena in 2002. If you want to say Serena's dominance only lasted a year and a half, the same could be said for Hingis so no difference there either. The field in 1997-early 1998 was also nothing like 2002-early 2003.

    1997-early 1998: badly injured Graf near the end of her career, Graf didnt even play 4 of the 6 slams in this time frame and was destroyed by Amanda Coetzer in the other two. Seles struggling emotionally with her fathers impending death and looking like someone on maternity leave. Sanchez Vicario suffering from obvious burn out after many years playing her grinders game and nothing like the 89-96 version, Martinez also burnt out. Venus just starting out on tour and very raw, Serena even moreso. So that left a pre prime Davenport, Novotna also in the twilight of her career, inconsistent Pierce, and for some real laughs the likes of Majoli, Huber, Coetzer, and Spirlea, as her main competition.

    2002-early 2003- Serena at her peak, Venus at her peak, Henin and Clijsters on the rise and starting to come into their primes, Davenport still near her best, Capriati at her peak, Seles still formidable, Hingis still a force, Mauresmo a major contender, Dokic and Hantuchova also factors.
     
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  41. 8pNADAL

    8pNADAL Banned

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    thanks thats the best picture ive ever seen i'll add that to the photobucket
     
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  42. janipyt05

    janipyt05 Professional

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    what rubbish who the hell told them to walk away from the game you best remember that Serena was in the game before Henin was and there after she left, you forget Serena was still winning slams while Henins and Kim where there and went on winning while they were not there so no she did not benefit from there being there or gone, yes Henins beat Serena and so did Serena mind you Serena is an all surface winner not just a clay and 1 time us open, aus open winner. She can only deal with what is in front of her they had no deal like if you play then i play... what!
     
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  43. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

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    Rated fairly enough. She's one of the most talented women's players of all time and probably should have won a few more majors. However, on places such as this forum she is downgraded just because of her attitude which is 100% separate from game and results.

    I believe her results speak for themselves and her talent level is great so not overrated.
     
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  44. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    Serena actually hasnt won a slam since Wimbledon 2003 with Justine Henin even in the draw. In fact even Kim Clijsters has only been in the draw for 1 of her 5 slam wins since Wimbledon 2003. Serena is not the player she used to be and needs the kind of fields she has gotten the last year and a half to win alot of slams. Now with Henin and Clijsters back I predict she has already had her last multi slam year.
     
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  45. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Let say Murray and Nole walk away from the ATP, and Del Potro hammered with shoulder injury this year, don't you think people will say Fed/Nadal had a depleted field? Of course, and that's exactly happened in the WTA. It's not Serena's fault but the fact is the WTA lost some great players. I'm not taking any slams away from her, but she could of faced stiffer resistent. Plus, if Serena is so good she should of been undispute #1, but a slamless player Jankovic and Safina were the #1 most of the time. That's not dominant and it's the reason she's overrated. In fact, Serena right only only has a total of 74 weeks at #1, that's well behind some of the players in this decade.

    Davenport...98 weeks
    Hingis.......209 weeks
    Henin........117 weeks

    Keep in mind these players even have a shorter career than Serena. Is serena overrated? Yes. She is lucky to even considered a tier 2 great(and I'm being nice).
     
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  46. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I would defintely say "No."

    With all overrated/underrated threads, no one every really explains the starting point. Is Serena overrated? Well what is her initial "rating'? Is it a certain ranking on the "best of all time" list that we are considering in determining whether she is overrated? Is it tennis publication declaration that she is the best player of her generation we are considering? There has to be a staring point. Or is it simply the collective remarks, opinions, analysis of commentators and fans that were are considering, which is always tricky since such collective opinion tends to go up and down.

    People seem to just judge for themselves what the "mood" is surrounding a player and then deem them underrated or overrated. If they think too many people are saying Serena is great, then she's overrated.

    Given all of the general hatred for Serana (for legitimate and non-legitimate reasons) and given that her 11 Slams are constantly being questioned on these boards due to the absence of Henin and various "weak era" arguments (at least for her last 6 Slams), I'd say that on TW, Serena is definitely not overrated.

    Outside of TW, what are we talking about? The highest platitude I've heard about Serena is that she is Top 10 all time. That is a definitive "rating." So if you believe she's not Top 10, she's overrated.

    And, I think a lot of posters get hung up on one poster's statements in regards to a player. I remember reading a post on TW that Serena, at her absolute best, would destroy Graf and Navratilova and therefore, she was "better" than them. Of course, this is an outlier opinion, and in that narrow context she could be overrated, but it's not a generally held opinion, so in a larger context, it is immaterial to a true discussion of whether she is overrated.

    I don't know, it just seems like there has to be a definitive starting point (a GOAT ranking, a proven general consensus about a player's accomplishments and talent (which is rare)) to deem someone overrated or underrated.

    More often than not, it usually devolves into "I really like this player and not enough other people share my enthusiasm, so he's underrated," or "I really don't like this player, yet many people still speak about him/her positively, so she's overrated."
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
    #46
  47. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    If you really think Clijsters would have been the one taking slams from Serena, you're dreaming. And don't blame Serena for Henin quitting.
     
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  48. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    The Only Slam I could see Clijsters taking from Serena would have been the 2008 US Open maybe had she stayed and kept up her form, but Clijsters wasn't winning one of her Wimbledons..or any of the others...As for Henin quitting..I don't blame Serena...I blame Sharapova....that Bagel at the Aussie destroyed Henin mentally.
     
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  49. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Go and watch the youtube clips of Graf destroying the greatest grass-court player ever in the last 2 sets of the Wimbledon 1988 final. Graf won 12 of the last 13 games against Navratilova, breaking her in 7 service games in a row.

    Or have a look at Graf beating Seles silly in the Wimbledon 1992 final (6-2 6-1). Or maybe the AO 1994 final against Sanchez (6-0 6-2). Or what about the FO 1988 final (6-0 6-0 against Zvereva)?

    Navratilova was a 9-time Wimbledon champ. Seles has won 9 slams, 6 of them in 1991/92. Sanchez has 4 slam titles, 2 of them in 1994.

    What did Serena do in comparison?
     
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  50. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Sabatini was able to beat Graf 11 times.
    A true duck ...
     
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