Is Sprem getting shafted?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by backhander, Jun 25, 2004.

  1. backhander

    backhander Rookie

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    That huge mistake during the Sprem/Venus match is really tarnishing Sprem, and I think it's unfair. First off, Venus handled it in credibly but I do not beleive it was Sprems fault.

    1) I've played in matches where I've lost track of the score before, and when I asked my opponent, they couldn't remember the score either. I can only imagine it is easier to happen in this situation where you rely on a system and umpire to keep track of the score while you are concentrating on winning the match, let alone winning it at Wimbledon in the middle of a second set tiebreak at the biggest match of your life. I'm sure when it happened she might have thought "is that score right" but then again thought maybe it is....really in that moment who has the time to rethink everything, especially when venus started to serve all of a sudden as well. Both lost track of the score, and weren't really in the mindset to correct something they thought might have been wrong.

    2) Alan Mills answer where he was trying to place the blam back onto the players is totally BS. As a player I could only imagine that they place their trust on the tournaments scoring system so that they can concentrate on the match, during a regular game, yes a player must be aware of the score so they know for instance, if it is a break point of deuce or whatever, but during a tiebreak, it is a totally different situation where everypoint is like match point and you try to win everyone, to lose track of the score is extremely likely. To say they need to keep track of time is a copout of the real problem, the officials are too stupid to be able to keep track of a match at the biggest tournament of the year.

    I guess I'm just mad at the situation cause I read the comments of Alan Mills and of Serena and Andy Roddick, Serene and Andy blaming Sprem and basically callinger her unsportsman, and I thought it was BS.

    It's taking away from Sprems victory, who simply just beat Venus, and tarnishes her rep I think unfairly.
     
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  2. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Oh come on....Sprem absolutely knew she got a free point when it happened and just kept quiet about it. How can she possibly not know that she had only just served into the ad court but not yet into the deuce court? Except for the 1st point, each player gets two serves in the tiebreak, first to the ad court and then to the deuce court. How could she possibly forget that she hadn't served to the deuce court yet?
     
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  3. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    I agree with backhand except about Allan Mills. I don't think he was blaming the players. He just amused by the players not pointing out.

    Breakpoint, from your logic, How could Venus possibly forget that she hadn't received serve to the deuce court yet?

    I believe Sprem was as confused as Venus. Watch the tape again, neither players hesitated when the umpire called 2-all before Sprem's second serve, which means neither heard it. Then after her second serve, the umpire called 3-2 Miss Williams. Both players were confused. Since Venus served relatively quickly the next point, Sprem just went along - she knew something might be wrong, but wasn't sure. Venus knew something was wrong too, but wasn't sure. Both of them focused on playing.

    I am quite impressed with Sprem's power, technique, and movement. This is first time I saw her play since Hingis said 3 years ago Sprem was the most promising young player she had seen.
     
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  4. dax_q

    dax_q Rookie

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    Venus still blew the tiebreak. It didn't bother her and she went up 6-2 or 6-3 and couldn't close it out. Same thing in the second set.
     
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  5. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    I just find the title of this thread highly suggestive :wink: :lol:
     
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  6. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Yeah, she's getting shafted by me. Sorry lads.

    -Liam
     
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  7. Pyro

    Pyro Rookie

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    You just made my day Defcon, thank you....
     
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  8. a verrry large duck

    a verrry large duck Rookie

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    If you ask me, I think she knew she was getting a free point there. I think people can lose track of total tie break score once in a rare while since theres so many points there and not usual 4 or 5 points in a game, and weve all seen people lose track of changing sides, but its not that hard to remember you get two serves alternating in tie break. once to the ad and once to the deuce. By accounts, she walked over to the deuce side ready to serve her second point when the umpire instructed her to pass the ball away. I mean, even if i was in ignorance of the total score, I would still remember I got a second serve coming on the deuce side. All things considered, I certainly don't know the girl and hope she doenst make me eat my words by being a mean person in the future, because I'm gonna say its okay. I mean so what? if she knew and played along. This is the biggest match of her career, super tight match, and would mean more to her than it would be for venus. I guess its similar to pleading ignorant to a ball you KNEW you hit out when your opponent didn't get a good enough look at it and gives you the benefit of the doubt. In an easy match you're winning easy or losing bad, everyone's honest. In a tight, important, meaningful match like this, I doubt anyone of you would do much different. Not saying its right, its definitely wrong. Just saying we're all more selfish than we think we are, sitting in the comfortable position of critic on a messageboard.
     
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  9. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    When a young girl is playing on the Centre court at Wimledon v. Venus Williams the last thing that would cross he mind would be to stop the match in the tie-break & in front of 11,000 people and cameras all over the place to point out to the umpire who's twice your age and in a position of authority that you think he's made a mistake. In fact she'd probably think she was wrong. She's not Safin or Coria you know. She made the mistake of being polite which some players still are even in the middle of a big match believe it or not eg her opponent.
     
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  10. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Good point Pound cat,

    She did seem a bit shy and nervous all through the match, nice to see her doing well as I watched her against Venus in Germany and she was out hitting Venus!!!

    Good luck to the lass,

    -Liam
     
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  11. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    And holier han thou Roddick and his comment makes me sick. I can't stand him again & as a "professional" he should never have said this.

    ""As a competitor and a professional you should be able to distinguish between right and wrong," champion Serena said when she was asked about the incident in her sister's match.

    "I've never been in a situation like that before but I'm an honest individual. So if I were in that situation, I know I would make the right choice."
     
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  12. larrhall

    larrhall Semi-Pro

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    Seren should let her big sis take care of herself. Venus dealt with at as she did. Maybe Sprem should not have 'taken' the point but it was an awkward position with that ump smiling like an astronaut and none of the linesmen/person's saying a word. Why in the world is Andy Roddick interested in the whole deal?
     
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  13. PusherMan

    PusherMan Rookie

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    Was really hoping Venus could push a third set, but I don't really feel that one point would have helped. Sprem was on. Really took it to my girl. She deserved the win and got it. I think most agree Venus was outplayed, even with all the hoopla over the extra point.
     
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  14. C_Urala

    C_Urala Semi-Pro

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    BTW, Safin lost the count of score in his finals against Federer. Then the umpire corrected him, but it shows that such mistakes are possible. It's less probable that two people mistake simultaneously but it doesn't prove anything.
     
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  15. Matt H.

    Matt H. Professional

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    the thing that makes it so tough for me to take a solid stance in the matter is that once Venus got to set point at 6-3, SHE DIDN'T WIN ANOTHER POINT! So now you can argue either way that it doesn't matter. However, it is rather shocking for an official to prance around in Wonderland and make a very embaressing mistake at such a big tournament.

    Sprem won 5 points in a row.....so yeah, if you want to be technical, right now it should be 7-6 Sprem, with a match point.
     
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  16. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    Right, Matt H. No matter how you slice it Sprem won LOL
     
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  17. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Pound Cat those were my thoughts exactly even if she had known something was wrong, I know I would have hesitated to say anything on such an occasion. I'd also think twice about saying something because I'd assume that I under pressure had made the mistake not the umpire...that would obviously be highly irregular...I'd think it more probable that I am the confused one...

    Tennis guy is absolutely right, for those who assume Sprem KNEW their was a mistake in her favour, how then can you explain Venus NOT knowing!

    AND finally Andy Roddick is really getting on my nerves. I just finished watching a video of his Wimbledon loss to Federer....he disputes a call made by the umpire that replays clearly show he was Roddick was in error about. (Roddick thought the umpire didn't call a double bounce...he did and the reply shows he anounced both the double bounce and the subsequent score, before the next shot was made...and of course Roddick knew it was a double bounce so even if the umpire didn't catch it...he should GIVE the point to his opponent). The umpire says to Roddick "I did call it...I wouldn't lie about it" To which Roddick says aggressively "you would to save your own ass." Andy has no right to comment on handling umpire disputes with class. At least he admits it would have been ugly had he been involved.
     
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  18. Pyro

    Pyro Rookie

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    Andy's just ****ing and moaning because one of the fellow americans went down. Also, btw, Roddick is an absolute unquestionable hypocrite. Off the court, he obviously tries to act gentleman like and say that he cares about fairness and good sportsmanship and all of that stuff. But when he gets on the court he is loud and emotional (nothing wrong with that) but he is very suspicious towards others. I think back way way way back to a match I can't even remember between Blake and Roddick when a ball Blake hit was called in, Roddick looked at the umpire and said something and then the umpire overruled the decision even though Shotspot confirmed it was in. But really, I guess you couldn't blame him. My personal opinion is that it was one point, and if I knew about it I would take it, call me an @$$, call me unfair, I really don't care, if you knew you could win the biggest match of your life which you want to win more than your opponent then you would take it as well, don't deny your human instinct, go read Lord of the Flies. But when we aren't put into such rough circumstances, then of course we want to say the "right" thing that cheating is bad, steroids are bad (actually those really are bad), non sportsmanship is bad and the best man should always win, but put yourself in Sprem's shoes and you might see the court a bit differently. BTW, I really don't think Sprem knew what was going on.
     
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  19. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    i would bet that there are a lot of players who don't know whats going on in tie-breaks. The situation is tense, and they're so focused on each point the overall picture is hazy. THAT'S WHAT THE UMPIRE IS FOR for god's sake. It's all his fault. Period. He has made stupid mistakes before. See thread below & 3 ft. ruling.
     
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  20. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Cannot remember EVER forgetting the score of the millions and millions of third set tie-breaks that the USTA force us to play every year in league play. Sprem should wax Shaughnessy, Zvonareva may be tight, but Sharapova will be her huckleberry.
     
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  21. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    Millions and millions of third set tie-breks. You must be very tired in the league. However, there have been a number of recorded incidents in ATP tennis where a player has lost track of the tie-break score (Safin/Feder for example) but this could have something to do with the intensity of play at this level. Interestingly each player can replay each point of every game in match, but I've never heard anyone talk about each point in a tie-break.
     
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  22. David Pavlich

    David Pavlich Professional

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    How many times do you think a player sees a shot in that is called out and accepts the bad call? I remember seeing Todd Martin and Carlos Moya overturn calls and give a point to their opponent. Moya was playing Corretja but I forget who Todd was playing. I'm sure some of you have seen other examples, but I can assure you that it's rare.

    Is there that much difference between what has been alleged about Sprem and what happens during a match such as I have mentioned?

    David
     
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  23. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    I've seen Moya give points to his opponents many times, but Moya is a top ATP player and a former champion/#1... Sprem is trying to win her first title and shes only 19 (meaning shes a kid).. That may be the reason why she didn't say anything.. SHe was given a free point when she was down.. She took.
     
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  24. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    The funny thing about this is.. I was watching the live scores from work.. ANd i knew something was up with the scores because it showed sprem serving 3 times in a row during the tiebreaker.. I just thought it was a mistake in the internet scoring
     
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  25. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Like it or don't like it, they best learn to love it because Sprem truly waxes that .................., two times
     
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  26. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Sharapova truly was everyone's huckleberry
     
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  27. PJVA

    PJVA Rookie

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    This thing was ridiculous. How can anyone say that they knew what Sprem knew ? I watched that point several times and it appeard that she was confused on who was to serve next because she took two serves on the ad side and then expected to take her turn on the deuce side, but then the score was odd so it looked like at that point Sprem didn't know what to do. Then Venus served, and in effect Sprem lost her turn to serve on the deuce side.

    Why would anyone say that Sprem knew of the score mistake as if it were impossible not to know? Venus didn't know the score and she was the veteran player and former champ?

    I find it very wrong of Roddick to comment on Sprem. How many times has Roddick called an opponent's ball out when it was good and then he gets huffy with the linesperson who called it good? How noble and honest is that? Roddick shouldn't judge other people and toot his own horn.
     
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