Is the L-Tec/JET just a fad?

Discussion in 'Strings' started by cluckcluck, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    It makes it tighter because the Jet method requires you to stretch the crosses for 20 seconds. If you measure no stretch and stretch with poly after the stretch you will see higher tension. Now if you always stretched the poly then no change. As far as holding tension better, yes the L-Tec are one of the best but due to string not Jet method.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
    #51
  2. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Lepchenko (spelling) strings her frame with a similar tension as what you noted (big difference in mains/crosses). Her frame (blade 98 ) was 27 inches before stringing, and nearly 28 inches after stringing. And in the end she will get a string bed stiffness that she could achieve not stringing this way, and keeping her frame at 27 inches. For example, if her ERT reading is a 35, simply string it at whatever tension gives her this output without stringing the mains looser than the crosses.
     
    #52
  3. fortun8son

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    I can understand that with most other strings, but isn't kevlar/syngut an exception?
    I mean, Kevlar barely stretches at all, while syngut stretches so much that you could use 17' for an 18' cross.
     
    #53
  4. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    To get back to L-Tec, I have pac classic gut 16G in the mains at 54 with L-Tec 17G 0S in the cross at 50 lbs. I just wanted to try L-Tec to see what all the fuss is about.

    I like it. It seems like a very high quality product. Good feel when stringing, plays a bit firm (which I like) and holds tension so far with about 6 hours of playing on the racket. Spin and control are very good. I normally use SigPro Tornado or Hyperion 17G and I don't know if L-Tec is worth the extra money but it is a very good poly and comparable to other expensive polys. But, I notice if you buy the 0S 1/2 reel, you can get the cost down to about $10 per full set which is not bad.

    If they drop the price a little on this string, I would consider switching to it.

    I know L-Tec took a lot of grief on this forum but I rate it an outstanding product but expensive.
     
    #54
  5. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Last weekend I was lucky enough to meet John "JayCee" Elliot himself at a Dutch Stringers Meeting. That guy knows what he is talking about. It's not so much in the quality of his strings, I asked him what made his strings better than any other copoly. His answer was: Nothing..!! There are only a hand full of manufacturers and many "top end" strings are no better than most mid end strings. It's just marketing...!!! Pro's Pro sold a copoly 3 years before Babolat named it the RPM Blast and we all know the story......in fact it's a less than average product that was marketed excellently.
    His method of stringing and the combo of strings do make a difference. He showed us that with his method, all main strings, long and short, have the same tension. You could here it when he plucked them, they all had the same pitch. Also, when you combine a pentagonal string in the mains and a 17 or 18 gauge round shaped string in the crosses, the flat surface of the penta eliminates friction with the thin round shape of the cross strings. The mains can move freely to generate massive spin and return back into position after the ball leaves the stringbed.
    A bit like the forbidden Vilsbiburger spaghetti method of stringing. I must emphasize that he uses a Stringway dropweight with floating triple clamps and a weaving device for the crosses. During the weaving he leaves tension on the previous string to tigthen the stringbed.
    I'm convinced that, when executed correctly, this method produces the most consistent stringbed and you will see a difference when you add or substract tension.
     
    #55
  6. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    No one is saying nor has said that he doesn't know his stuff. It's always been the assertion that the only stringers that Roger Federer, Serena Williams and Novak Djokovic trust to handle their frames would be considered to have amateur technique by his guidelines.
     
    #56
  7. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    ^^ i've never read where John has disparaged other professional stringers, but i'm not a JayCee groupie so i can't say i have read every word he's written or heard every word he's uttered.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
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  8. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    in my opinion, this is what makes the difference. i've also found it to be the hardest part and most time consuming to get right. and downright impossible if one is tone deaf. ;)
     
    #58
  9. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    You should find an L-Tec/JET stringer. My guy charges me much less for the string than buying retail and he does a superb JET stringing.
     
    #59
  10. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Glad to see.....

    Glad to see someone else who really understands John. I've known John for a number of years and agree he knows what he is talking about. His knowledge in string design and and testing is Extraordinary. John taught me the JET method several years ago and has since updated it several times.

    I have used the JET method for several of our customers, with all types of co-poly string, who know swear by it for various reasons. However, its not for everyone, so we use it as a personal service option, as it does make a difference in the SBS and performance of the racquet; our more advanced players really like it.

    Cheers, TennezSport :cool:
     
    #60
  11. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    He has not. The distributor who says to get the most out of the strings does. Before TW, only G&G carried them, and they said you wouldn't get the best performance out of this new type of poly unless you strung it in his method. Hence the point that the method of stringing for top professionals is not good enough for these strings, regardless of what they use.
     
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  12. kaiser

    kaiser Semi-Pro

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    I know nothing about stringing, but I used to play classical guitar. If you pluck strings of the same thickness but different length and the all have the same pitch, this means that the longer strings MUST have a higher tension than the shorter strings. Either that, or I have gone completely bonkers...
     
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  13. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    I tested L-tec and the JET method earlier this year. Came away using JET but left the L-tec behind.

    I like JET and use it on my own racquet regularly. Only use it for customers upon request.
     
    #63
  14. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    I dont string, but Ltec 5S black mains at 46 and LTEC Premium Flex black at 50 in the crosses feels very good in a APD GT
     
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  15. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Not if you do the first 8 main strings, then lower the tension by 4 lbs for the next 6 ending with extra lbs to compensate for the knot.
    Done correctly, all strings sound the same....I've heard it with my own ears.
     
    #65
  16. kaiser

    kaiser Semi-Pro

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    That's my point, if the strings sound at the same pitch but are of different length, their tensions must be different. Think of it this way, when you play the same string on a guitar but press it at successively higher frets up the neck, the tone will become higher. Same tension, same gauge, shorter string = higher pitch. Therefore, if the longer strings in your racket ping at the same pitch as the shorter ones, their tension must be higher.
     
    #66
  17. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    What you heard is fine, you're just misunderstanding what you heard. The strings are not all at the same tension using his method. You're stringing by pitch which doesn't really have much scientific merit unless you want your stringbed to have a uniform natural frequency. Why that's important, I have no idea, but no, kaiser is right. The tension of the mains is higher using JET and it is meant to be that way.
     
    #67
  18. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    You're completely right, JET method does not rely on uniform tension across the mains. It's in fact quite the opposite.
     
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  19. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    hannah, since the pitch is the same for strings of different lengths, kaiser is correct that the tensions vary with JayCee's method. however, i find that the resulting string bed feels more consistent.
     
    #69
  20. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Indeed, I would assume it has to do with uniform stringbed stiffness because the tensions are purposely not meant to be the same.
     
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  21. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    last summer i did try it in my 16 mains sticks the following way: the 8 mains in the middle i strung up at 21kg. the next two left and right i strung at 20kg and the last two on each side i strung up at 22kg to compensate for the tension loss at the knot. the 19 crosses i have have been strung from top to bottom by pulling the first three crosses at 22kg, the 13 ones in the middle at 21kg and the last three again at 22kg.

    i have not been trained in this method and i have tried this from what i have read in on the forum. i did this experiment with my standard set-up which is mantis power poly in the mains and mantis comfort syn in the crosses.
    the way i usually string up my sticks is doing the 12 central mains at 21kg and then LOWERING the tension to 20.5 on the outer two mains. the crosses i do top down of course and i start out at 20.5kg on the upper 6 crosses, then raise tension to 21kg on the 10 middle ones and then again LOWER to 20.5 on the last three crosses.

    the "personal" jaycee-stick was simply playing like a board, stiff as hell and i had the feeling that the sweetspot was at least microscopic. i did some measurements with that raquettune app and the stringbedstiffness was about 10% higher than the one on my regular method, which played much smoother and gave me the liveliness and stringbed response i was obviously used to. i cannöt confirm that the tension loss was less with the jaycee-method, percentagewise it was simply the same, but it obviously started out at a higher figure.

    i thought about lowering the tension range on the jaycee method to start out at 19kg instead of 21kg, which might have produced similar stringbedstiffnesses, but then i basically gave up on this experiment, as i was simply happy with the way i was doing things and the feedback i get from the stringbed this way. the reason being that i hit rather up on the hoop, i regularly break crosses at the 6th string, so i do need a "softer" upper third as regards the crosses.

    while i am pretty sure that there is some theory to back that up, as there is the theory to string crosses tighter to compensate for the friction loss, i feel that in the end it comes down to personal preferences.
     
    #71
  22. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    yes. you are correct.

    when stringing the entire bed at the same tension, by the time the last mains are tensioned and tied off, the tension of the 1st 2 mains in the center are extremely low. tension is recovered as the crosses are installed and the racquet is being squeezed together, but at the end, the stringbed in the middle is still "softer" than the stringbed as you move outwards from the center.
     
    #72
  23. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    agreed.

    thanks for sharing your personal method. i think i'll try it to see how it plays.
     
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  24. ricki

    ricki Professional

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    Guys, you cant be serious advocating here these nonsenses about stringing some strings tighter and some looser to compensate something?! Go and talk to anyone who has slightest insight into physics. And I wonder how you can "FEEL" that its better with this "witchdoctor method" when you have miserable 2 lbs differences...
     
    #74
  25. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    If it's a miserable two pounds difference, then why do many pros string their crosses at 2 pounds lower than their mains?
     
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  26. fgs

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    ricki,

    give it a try and then come back and report. i can assure you that in spite of the current plastic grommets the tensions do not even out completely.
    may i suggest an analogy - if you have any insight into high-end audio you could find out that cables do sound differently and you can even alter the sound by putting vibration absorbtion plates under amplifiers, which you would not think initially that they vibrate. everybody can hear the difference but obviously not everyone is willing to shell out the dough. some are completely satisfied with ghettoblasters and there is nothing wrong with that.
     
    #76
  27. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    no, i lost 8 pounds and im feelin great. thanks l-tec :thumbsup:
     
    #77
  28. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Proportional stringing is not nonsense at all. It has been done for many, many years. It's the assertions that this JET method makes that has people in an uproar.

    If you're just talking about tension differences between mains and crosses, go tell Yonex they don't know anything about physics. They recommend a 5% lower tension on the crosses due to the more rectangular shape of their racquet hoops.
     
    #78
  29. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Oh and Hannah, the assertion that a pentagonal string will slide along a smooth cross due to it having a flat side is preposterous. That would be perfectly fine if a. you didn't weave the strings and b. they never twisted at all while stringing. For every flat side on a smooth cross, the next one down and next one up will be the edge biting into the smooth cross.
     
    #79
  30. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    the blasphemy! :shock:

    cables can not possible alter the sound because they are simply passing a electrical signal! it's all in your mind! ;)

    amplifiers vibrating??? they don't have any moving parts in them! there's no way an amplifier stand will make any difference in the sound! ;)

    btw, i have the power supply of my Aesthetix Callisto line stage on a PolyCrystal amp stand and i have my Jeff Rowland Model 10 amplifier on another PolyCrystal amp stand.
     
    #80
  31. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    i'm not sold on the idea of combining a shaped main w/ a round cross. i actually prefer the feel and playability of a full bed of round poly.
     
    #81
  32. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    mad dog1,

    so you see how powerful your mind is.:)
    i much more liked the sound of otl-tube amps driving electrostatics. but now we are in itunes-age.:)
     
    #82
  33. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    unfortunate but true.

    nothing beats the sound of vinyl spinning on a quality turntable w/ good needle -> quality tubed phono preamp -> quality tubed linestage -> high output solid state mono amps -> Vandersteen 5A speakers or Thiel CS7.2s (i have a soft spot for time aligned speakers) all connected with Silversmith Palladium cabling (these are the BEST cables i've ever heard, so transparent and neutral).
     
    #83
  34. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    This, however, is something we will never agree on. I will not even begin to get into it, but I promise you, the world of audiophile audio is marketing and nothing more. Much like with tennis strings, there are differences between speakers, cables, amps, pre-amps and so on. The issue is saying that one is better than the other.

    And I would bet all of my future salary that neither you nor mad dog would be able to tell that any top audiophile speaker cable is superior to one of my choosing in a blind test.
     
    #84
  35. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    L-Tec was the biggest fad in the history of poly strings in terms of what they claimed.

    Even 1 year later, they unsurprisingly, still have negligible stringers wanting to sign up to be one of their 'special sauce' Jet-Tec licensed stringing centers.
     
    #85
  36. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    There is nothing wrong with your opinion, I just find it entertaining how obviously passionate you hate the string.
     
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  37. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Torres sells M-tec. He is upset he didn't get the letter L.
     
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  38. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I can't lie, this made me laugh :)
     
    #88
  39. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    I hate the BS surrounding it, though a large part of that was due to a particular distributor that they originally used.

    If they marketed and it sold it like any other string manufacturer, no one would have an issue with it.

    Even the original groupies don't use it anymore. That's how much of a brainwashed fad it was.
     
    #89
  40. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    A los of people still use it. They just don't argue about it with you anymore.
     
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  41. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Thank you. Thank you very much.:)
     
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  42. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    TenFan has given it up after developing tennis elbow with it.

    You've been out of action for a year with elbow tennis as a result of it, though you amusingly suggest it might have been due to gardening (mowing the grass can be tough).

    Kiteboard has stopped using it and instead taken to repeatedly starting threads about energy wheels, motion engines, rototational clocks, and how chanting 'hum num ahaaa' can heal injuries in half the time (I guess it makes a change from oil paintings and blue plastic straws).

    And the other original groupie who I just know will overreact if I name him by name is a self-confessed 3.0 who jumps from fad to fad, so you can't take him seriously anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
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  43. arche3

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    Get your facts right. I actually got tennis elbow from gardening (weeding) and playing with genesis spin x strung at 60lbs .... 2 years before I used L Tec. But Ltec did aggravate my te which is why I use gut mains now . But I did play through my te before. With a lot of pain. I realised ltec is even stiffer than spin x even at low tensions. So I had to give up the full bed of it before I hurt myself again. I never really stopped playing. I'm fine now actually.
     
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  44. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    I have to know, have you ever actually tried the string with the method? Don't knock it till your rock it, right?
     
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  45. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    ^^^ I've tried their string, but not the method.
     
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  46. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    Myself and my hitting partners all use L-Tec with JET (strung by an L-Tec stringer) and it's pretty amazing. From time to time I'll play with different strings but I prefer and feel more comfortable with L-Tec strung with the method.
     
    #96
  47. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    i agree. Ltec strung JET is a great feeling string bed. It has weird pocketing. Like a lot of it. More than you expect. It just takes too long with the waiting for the crosses.
     
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  48. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    OK, I stand corrected...let me put it this way then, since all strings sound the same the stringbed is equally consistent, resulting in a more balanced stringjob.
     
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  49. kiteboard

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    He has not tried the os/4s that most like better, but other hybrids.
     
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  50. cluckcluck

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    Try the 5s/Os hybrid. Very crisp and spinny.
     

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