Is there a certain type of player Djokovic is vulernable against?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by papertank, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. papertank

    papertank Hall of Fame

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    As unbeatable as the top four are, it seems that there is certain kinds of players each one of them has been known to have issues with. Nadal and Murray can sometimes be blasted off the court by ball-bashers having a a great day. Fed can sometimes fall into a UE-fest when faced with a well-defending player that puts consistant pressure on him with groundstrokes. Djokovic however doesn't seem to have any pattern like this, at least as far as I have seen. He's great at neutralizing the ball-bashers as well as grinding it out with the great defenders. Is there any certain type of player that Djokovic has been known to struggle with over his career?
     
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  2. Jeepers

    Jeepers Professional

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    Players with variety. Federer, Murray, Tomic, Dolgopolov etc
     
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  3. ruerooo

    ruerooo Legend

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    I'm not sure it's a certain type of player, as much as it is a certain type of weather condition.

    He hates playing in the wind. Watching him against Ferru in the first half of that USO semi, before they cleared the stadium, was pretty revelatory. (And a friend of mine who's a fan confirmed that he's said he doesn't like it.)

    Not that that's anything a particular opponent can do anything about ...
     
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  4. rafafan20

    rafafan20 Professional

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    A confident Murray. You have to take Djoker out of his rhythm essentially because he is the best pure talent on tour. That used to be a lot easier.
     
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  5. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    You have to be better than him. Sorta why only Fedal have a winning h2h on him.

    Federer can hit him off the court if playing well, and Nadal can make him run so much and counter most of DJokovic's tactics.

    Basically, someone who moves and attacks well, but also has the ability to mix up the game.
     
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  6. rafafan20

    rafafan20 Professional

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    I don't think anyone is better on hard court though, on grass and clay that is certainly true
     
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  7. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    The Federer-type. Only he so far can blast winners by him. Djoker's defense is that good.
     
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  8. equestion

    equestion New User

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    The key is being unpredictable. That means being capable of hitting any shot in any direction, with any type of spin. This also applies to the serve. Federer is the master of that. Murray is getting there. More often than not, that sends Djokovic into this semi-conservative mode where he's just kind of hitting heavy topspins and underwhelming backhand slices, trying to win the positioning game. The Big 4 have weapons that can break Djokovic down at this stage.

    Easier said than done though. All players, even Federer, have their tendencies. Once Djokovic locks in on those tendencies, he becomes considerably more offensive-minded, and unless he's struggling with his mechanics or physically hurt, it's usually all downhill for him at that point.

    Then there's this God 2.0 mode he sometimes goes into when his back is to the wall, where nothing really matters except for Djokovic's own form. It's a depressing reality for most of the tour, but when Djokovic decides f--- it, and starts going on an all-out offensive blitz, the only thing that can stop Djokovic is Djokovic.
     
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  9. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Variety. That what's Melligeni was talking about earlier in the match. A guy like Harrison it's almost the perfect matchup for Djokovic... He wins almost effortlessly. If you're trying to beat Nole, you must vary your style, your spins.
     
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  10. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    if you get into any kind of rhythm against him, you're toast as he will control the point. he is lethal that way due to his consistency. it seems like he has everyone's game figured out. mentally strong. knows all the strategies.

    federer has the arsenal of weapons and movement to keep djokovic guessing while still keeping the pressure on. very few others do. maybe murray as well.

    would have been awesome to see him play Rios in his prime.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
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  11. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    There are probably about 6-7 players on the whole tour who just can't be beaten when they zone hard. Unfortunately for Fedal, Novak is one of them, and they both found this out the hard way in 2011.
     
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  12. President

    President Legend

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    Djokovic's footwork actually isn't amazing, definitely of a lower level than Federer and Nadal. His athleticism and flexibility makes him a great defender but he isn't nearly as precise with his footwork. That's why he struggles so much with windy conditions and players with variety. He doesn't make the last minute adjustments Fedal do. You see the trouble a much lower level player like Tomic can give him just because he can slice and dice. When Federer and Murray have beaten him they mix it up nicely as well.
     
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  13. wangs78

    wangs78 Hall of Fame

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    I think Djokovic is just a very very consistent player. I can't really recall when he has given an amazing performance or a crap performance. He just comes into each match, moves very well, has a good serve (since he dumped Todd Martin), good strokes on both wings, good return, defends great, and can finish a point when he needs to. He tends to lose to the most talented players who can outplay him on a given day. That, I guess is how I would describe him. What you see is what you get. There's always a chance that an opponent brings their A+ game and can beat him. Djoker is not the kind of player who will then raise his game to another level. He just always plays at a consistent high level. So for example, a talented player like Tomic can show up, play his A+ game, and outclass Djokovic. In contrast, if the same player showed up against Fed, Fed is more likely to be able employ his more versatile talents and neutralize his opponents big game that day. Fed's weakness, as a previous poster said, is his vulnerability to the very best, most consistent defenders who also have the ability to attack when needed. Of late you also see him lose occasionally to big hitters but I see this as a function of his age.
     
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  14. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    I would say a ballbasher on fire can beat him.

    If you paint the lines all day with huge bombs ala rosol against nadal you can beat him. DP in top form could do that.
     
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  15. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Tomic has won a total of 1 set against Novak. I'm sure Novak is terrified of being "outclassed" once more.
     
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  16. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Besides the other Big 4; i would say Big servers who are also competent enough off the ground ie Isner, Delpo, a healthy Fish...

    Nole loves rhythm, anyone who can upset his rythum has a decent chance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
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  17. ark_28

    ark_28 Hall of Fame

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    He has only lose once in IW or Miami in the last two years and that was to John Isner, when Isner finds that type of form and with his 148 mph serve top speed he's pretty much unplayable.
     
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  18. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    You mean match right?

    Also, Federer uses his slice very effectively against Djokovic.
     
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  19. ark_28

    ark_28 Hall of Fame

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    I think he means set and that was Wimbledon! Hopman was an exho so will not count in the record books officially!
     
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  20. Al Czervik

    Al Czervik Professional

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    Chris Fowler on ESPN proposed a similar question. Who would rather play Djoker than Federer? The best that Patrick McEnroe could come up with is a guy like you are saying, and he pointed to to Roddick as one example.
     
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  21. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Yea, but that was Roddick vs pre Nole 2.0; although Roddick has beaten Nole playing well.
     
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  22. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Not as much as before. Federer hits his top spin alot vs Nole on hard courts now; for what reason i don't know :confused:
     
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  23. wilkinru

    wilkinru Professional

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    Yeah big serve, not allowing Djok to get into the 24 point rally stuff.

    Playing less physical and really hurting his second serve. You must get into 'serious' points. That is he has pressure on him to win that point.

    It takes someone with a great serve and the ability to hurt the second serve to take Djok deep.

    Fed does this, Isner is all about this and Roddick could do this.

    Nadal does it a whole different way - he mirrors Djok and attempts to outgrind him.

    Murray has the serve, but lacks the hard return shot (but gets to everything also) and begins to play grind out tennis. I'd say a bit of a hybrid. The fact he was hitting the ball harder at the USO was the difference.
     
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  24. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Murray has a way harder return shot than anyone bar Djokovic these days.
     
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  25. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Hmm, should we count a meaningless exho which happens to be in the winner's home country? Hmmm, let me deliberate.












    No.
     
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  26. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Roddick in the past, also Tsonga in the past. I have a feeling someone who comes to net on a fast court is going to trouble him.

    Another thing is, Djokovic has fallen flat against Federer and Murray in Cinci.. lost 2 finals to each of them, i think without winning a set. So on a fast court he is maybe more prone to losing
     
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  27. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    On these slow a** courts? No one.

    And no way does Delpo bother a Cvac firing on all cylinders. He has a terrible h2h against him for a reason.
     
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  28. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    chris fowler and patrick mcenroe were having a discussion about a similar topic. it can be applied to OP's question i think.
    mcenroe brushed on guys like tsonga who sometimes have good serving days but also hit big and play aggressively can give djokovic trouble since djokovic's return becomes neutralized.

    both murray and djokovic have exceptional returns, however murray handles big servers better than djokovic and can be seen during their matches agains federer at Wimby last year.

    naturally this isn't much of a weakness, since djokovic is pretty versatile from the ground, but players who serve big and can back it up are given more of a chance.

    http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/video/live.html
    click the replay tab, followed by the 9:00 PM coverage on 1/15
    the discussion starts at the 46:50 mark.
     
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  29. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Besides the pushers from hell (Muzza,Rafa)....

    No. 8)
     
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  30. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    ahh, beat me to the punch.
     
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  31. kaku

    kaku Professional

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    Anybody in the top four playing well can beat Novak unless he's absolutely in the zone. Then again, this applies for the other players as well.
     
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  32. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    The other top 3 obviously. He used to struggle against Roddick and Tsonga but that's when he was not as confident as he is now. I would say currently his biggest threat on hard is Murray, on clay Nadal, on grass Fed. Everybody else is not in the conversation. That's telling you how good he has become that only the very best on every surface can provide a serious challenge. There will be someone in the future though, there always is.
     
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  33. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Ferrer? Cvac has owned Ferrer since he found Dr. Igor.
     
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  34. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    I cant help but think the Roddick edge was somewhat psychological, after Nole said those things in the post match USO 08 (IMO roddick deserved it) , it almost felt like the fact that Nole , the popular crowd loved star was now 'unpopular' might have played on his mind. In future encounters, it felt like Novak wasn't trying hard enough against Roddick, almost like he felt guilty.

    I do think Nole can be hurt by lots of variety and changes in pace. In general I think a guy like Murray is the worst match up for him because Murray is good enough to stay in a rally and then when he chooses to he can mix in droppers, slices, junkballs etc. Having watched Nole for over 6 years though, it has gotten easy to tell when Nole is going to lose - just see if he grunts when hitting the ball when he is in a good/neutral position. Usually when he loses, you will not hear him grunting when hitting the ball. One other thing though is that if a player is beating Nole too badly, he wakes up and goes into madman Nole mode which is amazing to watch when he puts some sick power into his shots.
     
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  35. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    Not official, true, but it still happened. It's the same as any of the official tournaments going on before the AO.
     
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  36. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic is the most complete baseliner in the history of our sport. ZERO weaknesses from the back.

    He will go down as one of the greats irrelevant of his slam count.

    Owning PEAK Nadal across 3 surfaces in 7 finals and owning Fed 4-1 and unleash the fury that he did in the greatest year of our sport AKA 2011 has cemented his position as an all time great.
     
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  37. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    What a load of fantard rubbish.
     
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  38. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Actually good point about Roddick. I did feel myself that after that match he lost the edge vs Roddick. It always seemed like he got sloppy on his service games and got broken and that was it, and it did seem to stem from that incident.

    Vs Murray I feel like when he started losing to him in 2008 after never having lost a match it was because he would actually push too hard and go for winners but make too many errors. It was like he didn't quite know whether to out grind him or be very attacking. I can usually tell when he's going to lose to Murray because he will just keep missing shots and hand Murray the upperhand.
     
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