Is there any advantage for pro's to have a high ball toss?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tank_job, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. tank_job

    tank_job Banned

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    The ones who do have a high toss obviously are more susceptible to the wind, but other than that, a lot of serves with high ball tosses just are error-prone in general. Take Sharapova's or Ivanovic.

    It begs the question; why don't they just toss lower?

    I know they have their own distinct serving style which they're stuck with, but are they stuck with a bad habit? Does having a very high ball toss hold any advantage over tossing the ball just high enough to get your ideal contact point (ie. Dolgopolov, Monfils, Roddick)?
     
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  2. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    Some playersjust need the extra time to get through their motion. However, some of them definitely toss it higher than they need to.
     
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  3. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    It does seem as though the taller and longer armed players have the higher ball tosses. It is a timing thing, and what they are comfortable with.
     
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  4. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    High ball toss can be beneficial if one really wanna brush up for a wicked topspin.
     
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  5. Tshooter

    Tshooter Hall of Fame

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    Good excuse for a loss when its windy.
     
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  6. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Roger has the most peRFect ball toss. It's in the same spot every single time. He almost never has to abort.
     
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  7. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Riiight, sometimes he just can't get a first serve.

    And then when they close the roof (if there is one), he's gettin them all.:)
     
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  8. papertank

    papertank Hall of Fame

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    It just has to do with personal preference, there is no distinct physical advantange. Whatever a player has to do to get focused on their serve, they should do.
     
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  9. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    A higher toss gives them more time and decreases the chance of hitting tthe ball not as high as possible. but still I think too high is not good. Throw just to the contact point like goran is dificult too (although much harder to read than a high toss but also requires more timing and can cause rushing) but I think it should not much higher than a foot or so over the contact point.
     
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  10. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

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    The higher you toss it, the more difficult you make it for yourself, so no.
     
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  11. Topspin_80

    Topspin_80 Rookie

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    good retort :)
     
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  12. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    A higher ball toss is all about getting your legs into it. It gives more time to bend and let that power transfer happen. So it is very important for those who generate more umph from the legs.
     
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  13. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    yes but roddick has the deepest leg bend and he has a low toss. DP doesn't use his legs at all and he has a high toss.

    but I agree it is more difficult to do a deep knee bend and have a low toss since you must basically do the windup during the toss.
     
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  14. fuzzyball

    fuzzyball Rookie

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    I don't see how, since if you really want to brush up the ball, the point of contact with the ball for a topspin serve is supposed to be lower than for the flat serves.
     
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  15. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    According to Allen Fox in "Think to Win"-

    Hitting a low toss at it's peak "requires perfect timing and coordination between the toss and racquet swing. The racquet must move a considerable distance and arrive at a particular point in time and space the exact instant the ball gets there. There is no leeway. On the other hand, a higher toss introduces some slack in the system. The server gains flexibility. He can slow down or speed up the action as the situation requires and contact the ball where he wants on the way down. His trade-off is having to hit a moving ball rather than a stationary one."

    I find this to be true although there is a point of diminishing return if you toss too far above your hitting point.
     
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  16. wings56

    wings56 Professional

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    if you look at the physics, a toss barely above or just at the point of contact would be ideal. when you start tossing it higher than that, the ball is actually traveling faster on the way down, thus giving you less time to hit the ball and making that perfect contact more difficult. thats probably the reason all of the best servers have a lower toss. the ball is suspended at the peak, so it makes solid contact much more consistent since the ball is either not moving or moving very slowly.
     
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  17. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Are you talking like a coach?:) I'd rather point to Steffi releasing a high ball toss topspin serve.:)
     
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  18. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    High ball toss gives you more time to hit the serve.
     
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  19. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    Just because one person with a high ball toss can hit a nice topspin serve doesn't mean that's the rule.
     
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  20. akamc

    akamc New User

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    Hitting a falling ball gives you a higher vertical velocity component of contact relative to a rising racquet, generating more topspin in your serve. It's all about finding your best personal compromise for what you are trying to accomplish.
     
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  21. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    So you think he cannot adapt to the conditions?
     
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  22. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    It depends on the type of serve. Classic, Staggered and Abbreviated.

    Especially Staggered(Tsonga) need more time to hit the ball. Since it takes more time to prepare the body with the racquet coming last.

    Abreviated(Roddick) the fastest. Classic in between wait for the ball to come down.


    I don't think there is an advantage or if there is it is minute.
     
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  23. tank_job

    tank_job Banned

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    very very sketch.

    On the other hand, I have a feeling you would have to reverse the downwards momentum of the incoming ball when brushing upwards on it, making it harder to hit topspin.
     
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  24. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Exactly. However, Steffi specifically (hence, the specificity) had a high ball toss and effective (not nice--effective, to put it mildly!) topspin serve.
     
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  25. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Exactly (and I didn't mean it as a rule. On the contrary coaches seems to be making it as a rule. Sorry coaches...:))! However, Steffi specifically (hence, the specificity) had a high ball toss and effective (not nice--effective, to put it mildly!) topspin serve.
     
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  26. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    So basically, unless you serve above 60% every single match, you can't have a great balltoss. :lol:

    Not to mention, the fact that he serves better indoors does absolutely nothing to bring his toss down.

    Shall I link you to the match where Federer was serving like possessed against Soderling in gusting winds?
     
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  27. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Actually not "sketch" at all. It is well known that a rapidly dropping toss imparts topspin to a "flat" serve and thus increases it's consistancy, pehaps by about 10%.

    http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Technology-Tennis-Howard-Brody/dp/0972275908

    H Brody is the acknowledged expert in this area.
     
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  28. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Anyone who plays table tennis knows the physics. Higher toss means more spin on the ball. It is another advantage besides the timing.
     
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