Is This a Form of Cheating?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by JackB1, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    A played against a guy who would wait until JUST before serving to say the score and then he would quickly toss and serve. Also, he would mumble the score so quietly that I could hardly hear him. I asked him several times to speak louder and say the score a little earlier, but he wouldn't. The problem I have with this, is that if I disagree with the score, I have no time to think about it or stop him. Also, it gives me no time to strategize how to approach the next point if I don't know the score.

    Is this a form of cheating or just an annoyance? I got the feeling he was doing it on purpose.

    Another annoying thing he was doing, was while I was serving...if my first serve was out, he would go and fetch the ball or move slowly to get it out of the way, thereby delaying my second serve. I would be ready to serve again and he would be retrieving the ball.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
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  2. dlk

    dlk Hall of Fame

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    I don't consider it cheating, but certainly inconsiderate. That's uncool of him not to attempt to say score louder & not announce score prior to ball dribble, before the serve. I like to serve second as soon after first as possible,so I too find that annoying, but not sure what to do about it; I just deal with it. I often play people who dilly-dally around between serves, enough so as to expect first serve.

    I have a secondary question to curtail yours; I often play a guy, who believes as the returner, he has control of the pace of game. He's always toweling & holding hi hand up to delay my serve. Doesn't he have to be ready for me versus me being ready for him, when I'm serving?
     
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  3. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    I would just call a let on his serve and ask him to speak up because I cant understand him.

    Keep calling the lets until he gets the message and stops it.

    Eventually hell get tired of playing lets.

    As for getting the ball on out serves its a tougher call. If the ball could interfere in play then unfortunately he needs to get it and you have to wait. If the ball is not a hindrance then if he took too long then you can call a let on him. Again repeating the same strategy of calling lets over and over he would hopefully get tired of it after a while and stop being a moron.
     
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  4. johndagolfer

    johndagolfer Semi-Pro

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    That's a tough call. If it's an obvious delay due to fitness I can see calling him on it. If it's because he perspires a bit, as long it's not an excessive delay I would just let it go.
     
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  5. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Is there a "proper" or "accepted" time to announce the score before serving? In Pro matches, the announcer annouces the score RIGHT AFTER the point occurs, so I would think in playing rec. matches, you would announce it well before serving? I always announce it well before I start bouncing the ball. The guy I played would announce it a split second before tossing the ball in the air.
     
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  6. dlk

    dlk Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, that's what I thought. I don't take it so seriously as to let it bother my game. I do think he does it more often after long rallies:). Was more curious than anything.
     
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  7. dlk

    dlk Hall of Fame

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    Right, that's when I announce it, & I mean every point. Before I start dribbling, I announce the score; it's habbit.
     
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  8. Taxvictim

    Taxvictim Semi-Pro

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    Next time, just yell out the score yourself before he gets ready to serve. A lot of players don't call the score when serving, so I just get in the habit of saying it myself so there's no misunderstanding. I don't really think he was cheating, but he's not being much of a sport.
     
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  9. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Is there a "proper" or "accepted" time to announce the score before serving? In Pro matches, the announcer annouces the score RIGHT AFTER the point occurs, so I would think in playing rec. matches, you would announce it well before serving? I always announce it well before I start bouncing the ball. The guy I played would announce it a split second before tossing the ball in the air.
     
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  10. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Hold your hand up to signal that you are not ready to receive the serve until you've clarified the score. If he serves anyway you should not make any attempt to return it so that the serve is a let. The receiver is supposed to play to the reasonable pace of the server but you don't have to return a serve you aren't ready for.

    The other issue falls into that gray area of what actually constitutes an 'interruption' between your first and second serves. Normally, the time spent retrieving a fault first serve is not considered an interruption, and hence another first serve isn't warranted. In any case, the call on whether enough time has passed to constitute an interruption of the server is up to the receiver so I don't think you are going to get much relief.
     
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  11. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I actually did start doing that and he said "I always announce the score before serving". I feel like both parties should always agree on the score BEFORE the next ball is put into play. If nothing is said, then it makes matters worse if you disagree on the score after the point.
     
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  12. BobFL

    BobFL Hall of Fame

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    Ok Mr Jack, did you beat him or what? :)
     
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  13. kimguroo

    kimguroo Hall of Fame

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    I think your opponent did not do anything wrong.
    it's his playing style. sometimes, I don't even call scores because I can concentrate more while I serve. if you were really annoyed by him, you should stop while he toss the ball and ask for the score.
    I think there is a enough time between announcing score and tossing a ball.

    I've played with someone who tried to serve almost no time between his first serve and second serve. it was very annoyed because if the first serve is wide, I barely return to my position and he was already in tossing motion. in that case, I intentionally walk slow and pick up the ball and sending some message to my opponent without talking ^_^

    it's part of the game. just don't be irritated by any small things.
    if you do, your game will be ruined by those small things.
    I used to be very irritated by close calls and cause games but nowadays, I always let it go and concentrate next point.
     
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  14. kimguroo

    kimguroo Hall of Fame

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    we should not talk whether op won the game or not ^___^ hahahaha
     
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  15. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Definitely sounds bush league to me. If he quick served me like that, I'd probably have wound up holding my hand up and saying "Gee, I'm sorry, but I wasn't ready...".
     
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  16. jdawgg

    jdawgg Rookie

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    i dont even call the score LOL.
     
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  17. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    You just had to ask :)

    Yes, I lost and was extremely annoyed because I was up 4-2 in the second set and had won the first 6-3. I didn't complain at the time because I thought I would win regardless. But thinking back, it was a little annoying because I kept asking him to speak up, but he kept mumbling the score RIGHT BEFORE tossing and serving. It did bug me, but I shouldn't let things like that bother me, but sometimes you can't help it. Sometimes it's obvious opponents are doing these annoying things on purpose. I don't know if it was on purpose, but it was very suspect, since I asked him to stop and he didn't.
     
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  18. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    That wasn't it. He never "quick served" me before I was ready. He just mumbled the score and immeditely served a split second after....so he would get ready to serve, bounce the ball a couple times...pause...quickly say the score (inaudibly most times) and then QUICKLY serve. My point was I had no time to think about it or to stop him if it was wrong. I think was bugged me most not was what he was doing....but that he continued doing it even after I asked him to speak up and give me a little more time.
     
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  19. kimguroo

    kimguroo Hall of Fame

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    I've only seen those players in a beginner level (2.5 or rarely in 3.0).
    some people think it's smart thing to do because they can possibly take time off or balance off from an opponent. it can be successful in those level but I don't think it will work for higher levels.

    I can't image that someone announces a score and toss a ball less than two second and have good serves.

    if you adjust the game as soon as you realize your opponent's habit. you might not have any problem with it. just don't make small things to huge factor of your game.

    if you think your opponent do some tricks, do similar things without talking.
    in this case, I would stop any time which I am not ready or intentionally work out as soon as I hear his mumbling score announcement.
     
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  20. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    I don't think this is cheating, but I agree it is annoying. I don't know what else you could have done about it though.

    The only thing I would comment on is the bolded part... You should always keep track of the score yourself regardless, so you are not relying on what your opponent is calling out for strategizing.

    Then when he finally does call out the score, if it does not agree with what you think it is, just put your hand up and stop play - even if he has already started his service motion. Maybe that will get the point across to him :)
     
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  21. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Under ideal conditions all players on a court should know the score and be able to recount how each point was won in case there's a dispute. Pros can do this, but, their minds function differently then most of the rest of us. In this instance, the returner may call the score, and if the server doesn't like it, too bad. You asked him to call it louder and he won't or can't, for some reason. I think it's fair for you to act as a public address system.

    It's pretty funny and weird that the server objected to the returner calling the score, after he requested that he call it louder, and did not oblige. I've encountered this type on many occasions at the rec/club level unfortunately. There's a lot of anti-social people out there everywhere these days and many figure out how to open a gate to a tennis court.

    As far as his retrieving balls slowly that's harder to determine over the internet. He has the right to pick-up balls that may be a hazard. If he is going to the corner, back fence or the net, picking-up balls, that constitute no reasonable hazard for the purpose of stalling and to annoy, then that would be gamesmanship. Or, maybe he has some obsessive compulsive disorder to tidy-up the court.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
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  22. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I think you should say the score as soon as you are standing at the baseline with two balls in your possession, regardless of what others are doing. It's kind of a way of saying to everyone else, "All right, I'm ready so you should be ready also." I don't start my service routine until everyone has taken their positions.
     
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  23. jdawgg

    jdawgg Rookie

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    How many people here dont call the score when they're serving? I think its a bad habit of mine. A lot of times I'll call it after a few points. I'm really good at keeping track of the score in my head though... if an opponent asks the score I always answer quickly.
     
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  24. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    You are correct, it is a bad habit.

    The OPs problem seems pretty easy to fix. If I was in that position I would start when receiving by leaning my racquet against my leg to indicate I am not ready to receive until the server calls out the score. They can't serve until I am ready and I'm clearly not ready if I'm not holding the racquet. I'm not going to pick up my racquet until the score is called.

    However, I've been playing tennis close to 40 years now and in all that time I've never run across a quick server who also was a low talker so I haven't had to resort to something as extreme as the above.
     
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  25. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    cheatin

    I hate it when people return every ball into the court without calling the serve in or out. They invariably, without fail, will play some out serves that they hit a surprisingly good return on.
     
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  26. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    Say wha'?

    Actually you should return every serve, unless it's clearly out. I've had instances where I called "out" and didn't return the serve - only to have the call reversed by my partner. In that case, you lose the point; but according to the Rules if you return a serve that's later ruled a fault, and you've made a reasonable shot, the server gets another serve. I hate this rule, but that's the way it's played.

    Obviously it's bad sportsmanship to play an out serve if you know it was out. Best policy is, assume your serve was in unless you get an audible "out".
     
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  27. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    ^ Yeah, I don't mind if they call every single serve. But when people call it out sometimes, but stay silent at others, bash returns into corners sometimes then hit it into the net sometimes... these people tend to take advantage of surprisingly strong returns and the server's confusion.
     
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  28. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Agreed, that's taking two bites out of the apple and a form of cheating. On a serve close to the service line, they'll swing away and if they hit a winner, no call--but if their return is into the net, blooped for a setter, or headed to the far fence, they make the call "out".

    The call should be instantaneous and loud enough to be heard by all on the court. I hate breaking my ass to make a return and then they said they called it out (only they heard it) or pointed a limp finger.

    A "player" can tell from the instant they hit the ball whether it's good or not. It's cheating to wait until one decides the outcome of their shot to make their call--the call should be simultaneous.

    People who do have this bad habit so ingrained in their game they aren't even aware of it. They have ingrained cheating into their game on a subconscious level--a poor testament to their character--don't have business dealings with these people, they lack conscience. They'll screw you and never look back.
     
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