Is this DQ Ridiculous?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by clutch21, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,667
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    You can't do that. You fill out the questionnaire, and it doesn't say "Joe, you're a 4.0 player", it says "Joe, your minimum rating is 4.0". If it says your minimum is 4.0, you can't sign up for 3.5. The problem is when it says "your minimum is 3.5" when you know you are a 4.5 and there is a 4.0 captain waiting to take you on...
     
    #51
  2. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,370
    Location:
    AR
    Sydney Jim cheated the system a few years back by self-rating as a 4.5 to play 9.0 MXD. Obviously he did not put he played at Rice or won some matches on the futures level. It is a joke rating and not sure how anyone can defend him.
     
    #52
  3. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,093
    Puh.

    I moved up to 4.0 in Nov. 2011. In 2011 as a 3.5, I went to sectionals on two teams and nationals on one. If I were still a 3.5, I would be very sought after.

    Say I were allowed to play as a 3.5 for 2012. It would be easy to get on a team going to sectionals. The way you do it is you simply don't join any 3.5 teams, but you let the best captains know you are alive. As the season progresses, you see which teams emerge as the winners. Then you join as many of those teams that have a slot, play two matches to qualify for Districts, and then try to get to sectionals.

    If you make sure you get on the top DC team, you know you will always go straight to sectionals because there are no Districts. Smart captains keep 1-2 empty roster positions open just to capture top players who kept their options open.

    Gotta know how to play the system, sonny.
     
    #53
  4. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,975
    ^^^that is pretty slick
     
    #54
  5. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    Sure I guess if your whole point in league tennis is to be mercenary and join teams that are going to sectionals. I am still trying to figure out why people so ruthlessly go after meaningless accomplisments in rec level tennis. Nobody really cares about if a person goes to 3.5 sectionals except the individual concerned and maybe their team. After while they will wonder why they cared so much about it as well.
     
    #55
  6. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,620
    They lead an utterlessly hopeless empty life?
     
    #56
  7. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    6,205
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    I agree with this, I mean what is going on in peoples lives to have to be this way?

    Dont get me wrong I want to go to sectionals (I have several times) and would love to make it to nationals but I am not trying to game the system or running some elaborate recruiting system trying to put together a "ringer" team that will "go all the way".

    I play on my usual USTA teams that I have been playing on for years and even been co-captain of. A core group of us always stay together as we have become friends. Each season we may loose a person or two and then pick up a person or two. Of course when picking up new players we dont just take anybody but on the flip side we dont intentionally try to pick up a "ringer".

    This year we have gone 9-2 in league play and are going to playoffs. Our team is ecstatic and feel we have a very good chance of winning city playoffs for a shot at sectionals.
     
    #57
  8. schmke

    schmke Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,371
    Like others have said, it isn't your record that determines DQs, nor is it your average across all your matches. Instead, it is the scores (game differential), the opponent, and whether or not 3 individual matches are scored as strikes.

    Were you told which matches were strikes? I believe that is normally supposed to be done. In your case, it appears there were 2 clear well above threshold strikes, those being:

    - second singles win, 6-3, 6-0 win over a fairly high rated 4.0
    - last doubles win, 6-2, 6-1 win over two very good 4.0s playing with a good 4.0

    I'd be curious what the other strike was.
     
    #58
  9. clutch21

    clutch21 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    178
    Yes I did find out what the strikes were from. I already mentioned one in an earlier post, the 6-2, 6-1 doubles victory against some pretty low 4.0s (one had a 1-8, and one a 1-1 record) with my partner who is a very good doubles player (9-0 this season). The 6-3, 6-0 singles win was a strike and it deserved to be. The other strike was actually from doubles. It was the 6-2, 6-2 win. My opponents had a losing record for the season (not sure how bad).
     
    #59
  10. F L O B B E R

    F L O B B E R Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    140
    I'm confused over your DQ... after taking a few years off I am playing once again as a 4.0s and after a slow start in which I went 2-2 I won my last 4 matches by scores of 0 & 1, 2 & 1, 0 & 0, 0 & 0... the last double bagel coming against a player with an overall winning record, INCLUDING a victory over someone that whipped me in the 1st match of the year.

    I was terrified I was going to be DQ'd (not wanting to see my team get hurt), but so far I haven't heard a word. (The last match I played was nearly 2 weeks ago). Could it be that even though I had to self-rate because of my time off, my actual history (5 seasons as a confirmed 4.0) saved me? Or is the hammer still likely to fall, it just hasn't hit me yet?
     
    #60
  11. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,975
    The coordinator could be on vacation
     
    #61
  12. schmke

    schmke Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,371
    The scores look like they might cause strikes, but without knowing more about the opponents it is hard to say. If any are lower rated and/or 3.5 rated and playing up at 4.0 it is entirely possible for those scores to not be a strike. Or were any opponents themselves also self rated?

    Also, were these all singles wins? If any were doubles, then all parties involved come into play.
     
    #62
  13. schmke

    schmke Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,371
    Interesting. With the data I have (just looking at adult results for the Austin area the past 3 years), I can't explain why the 6-2, 6-2 (BTW, Tennis Link has it 6-1, 6-3) match was a strike if I'm looking at the right matches. Both opponents were bumped up to 4.0 the past few years and like you say, aren't tearing it up at 4.0. And your partner is rated fairly high so much of the good result goes to them and doesn't fall entirely into your rating for the match.

    So again, my data is likely not perfect/complete and I'm sure what I do to estimate a dynamic NTRP isn't perfect, but if there is a way to contest that doubles match being a strike, or at least get more details or an explanation of how it is a strike, I'd be interested to hear it.
     
    #63
  14. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,093
    I'm not saying I have done this. I was addressing the remark that I couldn't guarantee myself a trip to sectionals. I think I could.

    And I definitely kept some open roster slots last year specifically to recruit top singles players late in the season once their teams in neighboring leagues were eliminated.
     
    #64
  15. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,178
    Location:
    DE
    So to summarize:

    A captain has an "eye for talent" ... he recruits a self rated player to his playoff bound team ... The self rated player is among the best players on a sectionals bound team ... when the captain realizes that he is having to much success in singles he tries to hide him in doubles. Hmmmm....



    I have read 100+ threads about sandbaggers manipulating the system and not getting caught ... I think the system has worked in this case I am only surprised you got caught at all ...
     
    #65
  16. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    Well if the captain was up to speed on managing ratings he would have pulled him out of singles earlier or even started him in doubles. He probably already had 2 strikes against him when he started dubs. One lopsided dubs victory would cost him a 3rd strike
    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2012
    #66
  17. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    Actually I wasn't accusing you of doing so- I was talking about a hypothetical person who would do this.

    Interesting idea of keeping singles slots open late in the season for players from teams in other districts. How does the rest of your team feel about that? I couldn't do that here because the adjacent districts are like 2 hours away. So you are saying you would never be a mercenary yourself but you would bring one late in the season to help your team go to sectionals?
     
    #67
  18. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,667
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    There are 4 districts across 2 sections around here within an hour drive. This happens all the time. Dizz isn't a late season addition, but he's a DE mercenary also playing on teams in NJ & PA to put them over the top for the playoffs. I am from NJ, but I was added to a PA team because they are in contention. It's no big deal at all.
     
    #68
  19. F L O B B E R

    F L O B B E R Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    140
    I checked and all 4 opponents are rated 4.0C

    And all 4 of the matches I noted were Singles.. I played 1 doubles match this year and won 3 & 3.

    I noted earlier that 3 of the 4 opponents in those singles matches are definitely not "strong" 4.0 players... in fact, their combined W-L record in singles this season is 1-12. That fact has me thinking that I might be safe after all.
     
    #69
  20. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    what's the point really?
     
    #70
  21. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    yes exactly.

    "oh look I made it to 3.5 sectionals twice!. I must be the amazing!"
     
    #71
  22. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,093
    "Mercenary" seems a little off. I mean, these were legit computer-rated players. But yes, I did exactly this last year.

    We had 18 matches during the regular season. The stated goal up front was to make the playoffs, etc. I had told everyone to make sure they were available for Districts.

    Throughout the season, I had three singles players, IIRC, on a roster of 18. So I kept two open slots for late-season recruiting. My singles players were struggling to win matches, and we stayed in contention with strong play in doubles.

    As we reached the end of the season, I found two terrific singles players to fill the empty slots. That was then a full roster of 20.

    I then asked who would be available for Districts. One lady bailed (she pleaded unavailability but as it turned out she just wished to play for one of her other playoff-bound teams and simply wasn't honest with me). I filed a player deletion for her and filled her slot with a lady from Virginia who had destroyed me in singles -1 and -0.

    So we went to Districts with a rejuvenated roster of singles players. We made the semis, but we lost and didn't get to sectionals.

    I don't know how the team felt about this. No one complained. I mean, if we find three new singles players who can help us achieve the goal, what's the harm? I didn't have anyone complaining about not getting enough match time. And as luck would have it, I was able to play every person on the roster at Districts except one lady who chose to take a vacation instead.
     
    #72
  23. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,093
    I was going to ask you the same thing. . . .
     
    #73
  24. GlennK

    GlennK Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    NE Ohio
     
    #74
  25. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    This in fact had this happen to me. I was replaced by a much younger player who ended up losing his match badly anyways. I ended up leaving the team.
     
    #75
  26. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,093
    Yeah, but . . . don't take this the wrong way or anything, but . . .

    You wouldn't get replaced if you could, you know, play better. I can assure you that the one lady who did win got all the play time she wanted.

    If the goal of the team is playoffs and everyone knows this up front, then folks have to know that nothing is guaranteed and all decisions will be made to make the team the strongest it can be. If that doesn't suit you, maybe another team would be a better fit?
     
    #76
  27. F L O B B E R

    F L O B B E R Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    140
    So Cindy runs her team like the New York Yankees... folks like her place winning above everything else. Not saying that's bad - lots of people love the Yankees. (But a heck of a lot more hate them).
     
    #77
  28. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,093
    Nah. Just the one team, in 2011. That was the year several of us 3.5s felt "left behind" and decided to try to make a run.

    Now we are 4.0s, and all we want to do is avoid Xtreme Embarrassment. My 4.0 team is 6-4 and out of it for playoff contention. But last year we were 1-11 at 4.0, so we are delighted with our improvement.
     
    #78
  29. MSL

    MSL New User

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Clutch21,

    Just skip any responses saying you should or shouldn't have been DQ'ed unless they are familiar with the situation. Seriously, people... he didn't mention anything about the specifics. You can go 20-0 and not get DQ'ed if you are playing against weak players every week.

    Your first strike was against a good singles player, but I wouldn't even say he is one of the top level guys in the league this season. His record is 3-3 in singles (excluding the loss to you).

    Your 2nd strike was against 2 guys with a combined record of 5 and 27 over the last 2 seasons. Both those guys are obviously playing the wrong level and I find it crazy that anyone could/should/would get a strike by beating them.

    The 3rd strike was confusing as well, but that has already been discussed in this thread.

    We'll miss you. Tell Molly we said hi.
     
    #79

Share This Page