Isn't Moonballing A B*tch

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Marcus10, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. Marcus10

    Marcus10 Guest

    What's the deal with moonballing. For all of you who read this article and don't know what moonballing is well listen up. Moonballing is a cheap way of playing tennis. Moonballing is consistently lobbing the ball in the air for no apparent reason. It's one thing to lob the ball while someone is at the net trying to volley but it's another thing to constantly doing it. I was playing a Provincial qualifying match today and I wanted to be challenged. I was playing the number one seed and the only balls that he could hit were moonballs. I would drive the ball and he would respond with a moonball. I think that this is a very unsportsmanlike way of playing tennis. Aswell, my opponent kept telling me when to serve the ball. I would be collecting my tennis balls and he would say "Okay, lets go!". If anyone agrees with me can you please tell me. I had a perfect oppurtunity to make the Main Draw of the Provincials but this guy ruined it for me with his moonball rallies. My coaches say when I receive a moonball to counter the shot with another moonball. So, throughout my match I was remembering what they said but since this boy was so much taller than me he would just smash the ball right back in my face. And to top this all off, this guy was a lefty. Not ever playing a lefty before, this was a real experience for me but at the same time it was a real dissapointment because I didn't make the Provincials but I learned a lesson. NO MATTER A MOONBALL PLAYER OR A HARD DRIVING PLAYER, GO HARD AND NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!!
    If anyone has anything to say about this please reply. If any tennis players or coached have something to say, please do. I enjoy taking constructive critiscm and taking any tips from anyone!!

    Thanx
     
    #1
  2. danniflava

    danniflava Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    397
    Moonballing is not a cheap way of playing tennis. This guy that you were playing needs to play inside the rules of tennis, not the rules that YOU want him to play.
     
    #2
  3. ibemadskillzz

    ibemadskillzz Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    622
    he moonballed you because he knew that you sucked much more, he basically toyed with you. It's sad that you couldn't handle moonballs. Handling moonballs are the easiest thing in tennis. If he decided not to moonball you, he would've trashed you 6-0 in less than 10 minutes. He saw that your skills were soo inferior that he took the match as a joke.
     
    #3
  4. gmlasam

    gmlasam Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,527
    Nothing wrong with someone moon balling you. Just smash it or hit it on the raise. No big deal there. If you cant smash or hit on the raise, then you need to practice ;)
     
    #4
  5. bee

    bee Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    682
    I don't like it either

    Obviously, there's nothing illegal or unethical about moonballing, but I don't like it either. If you're playing against a moonballer and you're not as consistent and patient as he is you have to do something other than just hit typical groundstrokes back to him. Move forward, take some of them out of the air, and go for short angled strokes on both groundstrokes and vollies. If the guy is really fast you have to tell yourself that going from corner to corner is not good enough. You've got to move him off the court with sharp angles and then put the ball away with a volley or aggressive groundstroke. I've become angry with and cursed at a moonballer and felt badly about it afterwards. I've had to remind myself that's just the way he plays. It can be a test of more than your tennis skills, if you know what I mean.
     
    #5
  6. Exile

    Exile Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,049
    That was you dude? I'm sorry!!!
    If I had known then I would have played differently.


    Actually I'm not that guy, but I could have been.

    The thing is, if you dont really feel like playing hard, play smart, if you know lobs are going to put your opponent in the mentality to make an error more often than not, then do it.

    If you get a moonballer again just stay calm and say, "Is that all he's going to do? That's fine with me, I'm just going to beat the crap out of it."

    You shouldn't get angry at such irrelavent things, just the ignorant people behind it.
    As far as his telling you when to serve, you have almost half a minute to start the point, if you want to take your time, do it, games are at the servers pace remember?

    Throw him off by tossing the ball up and catching it, get his rhythm off a little bit.
    Then just toy with his mind by making him wait. You know he's angry about it so just use it to help you.

    (Type B Player)
     
    #6
  7. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    Although you didn't post the scores, I'm willing to bet that you had your butt handed to you. Otherwise, you wouldnn't have come whinning on this board about how "cheap" moonballing is. You guys are all the same-"Oh me, oh my, I got beat by a pusher/moonballer/retriever, and I'M THE BETTER PLAYER." No, my friend, the better player just beat YOU. IT'S NOT A "CHEAP" TACTIC IF IT WINS ITS PRACTITIONERS MOST MATCHES!!!!

    Until you learn how to couter this tactic, you aren't going anywhere in your respective sectionals or league. It's not unethical and it's not illegal-it IS a practical way of destroying jokers like yourself. It's not my game, and I only put up the occasional moonball, but I got beat by more than a few of them until I learned how to beat them. And I didn't come crying on the Internet how much better my "strokes" were (even if they WERE usually "better"-it's my GAME that was lacking).

    Consider this your "constructive critiscm": Learn how to come off the baseline and hit a swinging volley, learn how to volley, work on your overhead, take SOME pace off the ball and mix it up-do NOT continue to hit flat whingers-this is like Batting Practice-all they have to do is feed off of your power. Mix up the pace. DO NOT do what your coach said-if you play their game, they will BEAT you, because that IS their game-they've been doing it for longer than you have. Hit balls down the middle-that way, you take away their angle and their reliance on movement-they have fewer options with these types of balls. Hit drop volleys and short angles to force them to the net and take them out of their comfort zone on the baseline-most pushers are not volleyers. If you find one that IS, then, well, you're on your own, bud...
     
    #7
  8. sambapati

    sambapati New User

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    32
    I remember one year at the French Open, ASV (who everyone thought was going to win the title) was playing Karina Habsudova in one of the earlier rounds. ASV was being beaten and well on her way to being an upset victim when she decided to start moonballing. The crowd booed and whistled, Habsudova, got thrown off her rhythm, -and ASV WON THE MATCH!

    Draw your own conclusions...
     
    #8
  9. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    As much as I like and respect what Andrea Jaeger has done since quitting tennis (www.silverliningfoundation.org), 'moonballing' is a cheap, BS way to play tennis.

    That said, it is also a tactic which must be dealt with, since, for the most part, we do not get to pick and choose how our opponents 'should' play against us.

    A few years ago, a kid I knew - a good enough player, I think he was 17 at the time - ran into a 'pusher' type of player in a tournament. During the match, this kid was so absolutely frustrated by the 'pusher' that he began yelling at him on the court. "You're terrible." "You don't know how to play tennis." Yes - DURING the match. The pusher kid simply ignored the taunts, and continued to win the majority of the points while the other kid continued to self-destruct. At one point, the kid I knew came over to me and complained about how terrible a player his opponent was. "This guy's terrible. He doesn't know how to play. He's not a tennis player..." My only reply, over and over, was "So, beat him." I just kept repeating that to everything the kid said to me about the 'pusher'.

    Needless to say, the 'pusher' won the match easily. Also, needless to say, the whining kid and I had several discussions about sportsmanship after that match. I told him that I had never before seen any player yelling at his opponent during a match, telling him how terrible he is - and that it was the worst display of sportsmanship I'd ever witnissed. I also told him that, as far as physical tennis ability is concerned, he is better than the 'pusher' - but tennis involves more than mere physical ability. I told him that as bad as the 'pusher' was - HE was even worse, because the 'pusher' beat him.
     
    #9
  10. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,332
    Is it still 'cheap' if your opp. isn't physically strong enough to pound away? Did either of you who said it was cheap ever take into account that that might be true? I bet you didn't did you? And why is it so 'cheap'? Tell me this. Is it cheap for you to pound away at the baseline because you found that it works? No, it isn't. Then why is it cheap to moonball if your opp. found that it works? It's not, you guys probably just say that it is because you guys don't know how to deal with it. Am I right?
     
    #10
  11. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    No.

    "Is it still 'cheap' if your opp. isn't physically strong enough to pound away?"

    I have no idea what you meant by this.

    As far as 'moonballing' is concerned - I find it 'cheap' in the same way that I find the underhanded serve to be 'cheap'; in the same way that I found McEnroe & Connors using their 'outbursts' to deliberately change the momentum of the match to be 'cheap'; in the same way that I find 'the neutral zone trap' in hockey to be 'cheap'; in the same way that I find stealing second base with an 8-0 lead in the 8th inning to be 'cheap'...

    Moonballing takes much of the skill out of the match. It makes it a game purely of patience. Tennis ability doesn't matter in a match with a 'pusher', or 'moonballer' - and I find that lowering a match to the level where tennis skill is irrelevant to be both 'cheap' and very unfortunate.
     
    #11
  12. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,332
    I meant that your opp. isn't strong enough to really do anything with the ball and that is the only way he/she is able to get the ball over the net.

    Was I cheap when I had to serve underhanded when I had a broken arm?

    Now this I do find cheap

    Well tennis shouldn't really be just going for everything. You do need to have patience and playing a moonballer is a good way to get some patience.
     
    #12
  13. Cypo

    Cypo Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    355
    Well - I'll confess - I love to moonball against players who will consistently smash them into to permanent fixtures - sorry.

    Actually - it's quite pleasant and relaxing on a nice day to just hit nice clean deep shots with good net clearance. Especially in a tournament, I'm glad if I can moonball because it settles me so well (I tend to get nervous and do stoopid things in tournaments).

    I don't consider moonballing lobbing, though. Moonballs are lower - you can't hit an overhead on them, unless you're at net. You can move in and take them out of the air (drive-volley) or take them on the rise, or moonball back - now that can be unnerving !

    I hope I'm not public enemy number one now :)

    ---- added later:
    Moonballing is not as easy as it looks - It is a heavy topspin ball and you have to hit out very relaxed for it too work. Maybe that's why it looks easy - because you have to be relaxed to do it. And, of course, it's high percentage play.

    But I don't think it's any cheaper to exploit someone's inability to hit outside of their comfort zone, than it is to hit to a inconsistent backhand.
     
    #13
  14. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,332
    Trust me, if anyone would be public enemy number one for moonballing it would be my dad. He tends to do that a lot and it makes me mad 'cause I know there aren't a whole big lot of kids that play that way. But I learn to deal with it.
     
    #14
  15. peter

    peter Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Linköping, Sweden
    I bet the pusher must have been laughing his ass off inside his head all the match - I know I would have - knowing that his opponent was breaking down mentally. Actually I would have had a hard time *not* walking around the court with a BIG HUGE *GRIN* all over my face... :)

    That said - I hate playing pushers too and are having big problems with them. But I wouldn't never say that I lost to a worse player just because he's a pusher. I mean - who's the worse player?

    1. A hard-hitter who can't handle a pusher but only other hard-hitters?
    2. A pusher who can handle a hard-hitter and other pushers?
     
    #15
  16. Camilio Pascual

    Camilio Pascual Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,825
    The reason is to win the match. Apparently, it works quite well against you. Bee, amongst others, gave some good advice on how to play against "moonballers." I hit heaps of topspin lobs, it is a skill that few possess, many resent (see signature below!). If my opponent lacks the skills and physical ability to return these balls effectively, he is not as good a player as I am and he is going to see a LOT of TS lobs. You might also try hitting shots to your opponent that are difficult to lob, such as short slices.
    Your pity party about how it is a cheap way to play will lead to many more defeats for you. Not a smart play on your part. You have several reasons (he's tall, he's a lefty) for losing, which is it? You seem to not want to take responsibility for yourself (The other player ruined it for me). Your attitude reveals that you are not well suited for match play yet. Acquire the physical skills and the mental attitude to allow you to defeat these players. Then, and only then, will you become the superior player.
     
    #16
  17. Ace

    Ace Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Messages:
    444
    I was going to respond....but then I read what Camilio said, and I couldn't have put it any better.

    You should get this kids number and he should become your new practice partner until you learn how to kick his rear.
     
    #17
  18. Brian Purdie

    Brian Purdie Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    649
    I agree. You can do something with a moonball if you want to. You can use the opportunity to rapidly change the pace of the point with a good straight shot. Otherwise, move them back and forth with a drop shot, then moonball, then repeat. unfortauntely others here are correct in the sense that a moonball is a easy way to play the game and it should be within your skill to handle them on a repetitive basis for a 30 shot rally.

    Also, add a lot of topspin to your shot to bounce that sucka over the fence!
     
    #18
  19. MegacedU

    MegacedU Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    1,330
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Omg that would **** me off like no effing other. If that guy said that to me while I was getting ready to serve, I'd yell at the top of my lungs "If you knew anything about tennis you'd know that I can take my time serving and that you're just making a fool of yourself by being ignorant to the correct way to hit a tennis ball." Then he'd get one of my winning smiles and a good hard serve. :)
     
    #19
  20. ohplease

    ohplease Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,172
    I can't believe how inconsiderate some people can be. There are actually people out there who play LEFT HANDED! When the vast majority of people are so obviously not. There are people who serve and volley, when most people do not. There are people who refuse to rally nicely with you until you're all set up to hit the ball you want to!

    /sarcasm off

    Tennis is sometimes about exploiting your opponent's weakness. This is sometimes considered "cheap." Tennis can also sometimes be about exposing the deficiencies in someone's alleged strengths. This can be considered one of two things:

    a) Your opponent is both proud and stupid, sort of like Boris Becker when he played Andre Agassi.
    b) Your opponent is both lots better than you and a big enough jerk to draw attention to just how much.

    Tennis is a mano y mano, zero sum sport - you honestly expect someone to play in such a way as to make you feel comfortable? Um, no.
     
    #20
  21. tennis-n-sc

    tennis-n-sc Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,261
    Cypo, you always say what I want to post. It's beginning to pi** me off! LOL
     
    #21
  22. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,915
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    the deal is to get better and then you dont run into moonballers anymore..moonballing just doesnt pay dividends anymore once you get to a certain level....advanced players can take moon balls out of the air at times, and would have several other ways to dismantle a moonballer, who is most often moonballing because they cant do anything else very well..so you learn to make them do stuff they dont like, like bringing them into net...ditto for pushers...gone at more advanced levels because of the technology in large part.....one good thing about technology, because even pushers dont even enjoy playing pushers...
     
    #22
  23. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    Are you drinking? Or am I? This post makes perfect sense-I totally agree, and declare additional arguments or comments to be superfluous. OP says it all here, but I'll add, anyway, the following:

    If you can't beat a moonballer, you aren't "better" than him/her. It's only considered a "cheap" tactic if you can't beat them. That simple.
     
    #23
  24. Cypo

    Cypo Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    355
    Tennis-n-sc - that's only because I have a six hour jump on you - but if I were smarter, I'd wait and let you say it better.

    Are you drinking (again ?) Phil ? A little afternoon Sake ? Or some of that deleterious whiskey one can only get from Japan ?
    My husband is in Sapporo at the moment - if he contacts you professionally let me know (so I can have the rolling pin ready when he comes home :))


    And to TENNIS - Do you guys really think moonballing is easy ? Maybe it's just me, but it took me a long time to learn, and I still can't play it very well - the shots tend to get shorter and shorter and then they're easy put-aways. If the opponent isn't nice enough to wail on one of the first two, then I know I need to re-evaluate.
     
    #24
  25. 0.2RatedPlayer

    0.2RatedPlayer Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    103
    for me, i just throw in a variety of spins and some high looping top spin shots
     
    #25
  26. tennisadict

    tennisadict Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    592
    i agree, moonball sucks. just get better on your footwork and be qwik, get close to the ball and half volley or over head , belive me it will work
     
    #26
  27. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    Of COURSE not, Cypo. I'm a pro-fessional-al! It's much too early. I'll get to the sake later this evening. Japanese whiskey-like Suntory? Deleterious isn't the word for that! Nasty stuff, and WE introduced it to Japan...

    Your husband is probably freezing up there-or else he's skiing.
     
    #27
  28. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    Hmm glad I read this thread.

    I have to play a moonballer in one of the 4.0 leagues I play next week. He is one of the few people who reputation precedes him. The call him the "mobber" cuz all he does is moonball and lob. He actually finished #3 in the league out of 12 people last season so his style is obviously working. The thing is he is very quick and in good shape so he runs everything down. He is also in his early 20's so he is youngest guy in the league. I am a baseliner and only average at the net. I think I am going to have a very long hard game against this guy that will test my patience. :D
     
    #28
  29. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Big Canoe, GA
    Goober - You from Kansas City? We've got a moon-baller that's tearing up our league as well. I hadn't played him yet, but everyone kept talking about how great he is - saying stuff just like they say about your guy. Well, I played him last Monday, and crushed him - I even surprised myself! I had two tactics that worked really well. My first tactic was to exchange a couple of stokes with him down the middle, then to come in and take an overhead from mid-court. Don't come in too far, or he'll just lob over you pretty easily. I came into just behind the service line, and that worked pretty well. My second tactic was to get into cross-court forehand rallys with him, waiting for him to hit a short ball which I hit down-the-line. Some were winners, and some I used as approach shots. These usually came back pretty weak, and I could easily volley the shot for a winner. Also, several times I hit short to pull him into the net, where he would either muff a volley or an overhead. The thing I really liked about playing this guy is that he has no weapons. He didn't hit ANY winners! His whole game is about getting the other guy to make unforced errors, and that I could control pretty well that day. I beat him 6-2, 6-2. At one point he made us stop so he could measure the net (it WAS about an inch too high). At another point he stopped to drink some water and towel off (we usually play straight through). And by the end of the match he was stalling between points and yelling at himself. I LOVED IT!!
     
    #29
  30. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    not from kansas city, but good to hear your story. :D
    People in my league were not raving about how great he was. Most in fact disliked his style of play and were more like smirking that I had to play him next.
     
    #30
  31. Fatmike

    Fatmike Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    743
    I played against a lobber this week.... I served him his own medecine and lobbed too.... I lobbed higher and mostly on the baseline and while he could handle my topspin and retunred it in a lob, he couldn't handle the lob.... haha well done for me
     
    #31
  32. bee

    bee Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    682
    better

    NoBadMojo said it well. Don't see moonballers on the men's pro tour. Let's get good enough so these guys aren't a threat.
     
    #32
  33. Fatmike

    Fatmike Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    743
    What is a pusher?
     
    #33
  34. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Big Canoe, GA
    A "pusher" is someone who's main tactic is to just return every ball until the other person makes a mistake. Often (not always) the pusher doesn't have a lot of power, doesn't attack, plays everything from the baseline, and just goes on and on. If two pushers were to play each other, each point could to 10, 15, 20 shots before one of them would make a mistake. Pushing is very effective at the lower levels, when their opponents are prone to unforced errors, and have not yet developed their "put away" shots. As players advance in skill, they learn how to deal with pushers - but it's a painful process.
     
    #34
  35. Fatmike

    Fatmike Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    743
    I see....

    I play often against these types of players... I'm the complete opposite of this... alwys trying the winner... cost me lots of points though
     
    #35
  36. need2paint

    need2paint Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    375
    sounds to me like hewitt and nalbandian are pushers.
     
    #36
  37. alan-n

    alan-n Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,304
    Not really, that hit the ball pretty hard about as well as they can... just isn't very hard compared to the hardest hitters. They are refered to as counter punchers. Nothing to disrepect with this style of play, Federer himself plays the counter punching game early on a match if you want to stretch it that far.... but thats to get a feel for hit opponents shots and spin.
     
    #37
  38. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    You don't even have to reach the tour. Once you get to 5.0+ open tournament tennis, the moonballers start getting very sparse. Defensive counterpunchers, yes, but outright moonball pushers, usually not too successful.
     
    #38
  39. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    There is no comparison between a Connors outburst breaking an opponents concentration and moonballing. One is an extraneous, outside the game, ploy, the other a perfectly legitimate tactic and shot which you are free to choose. The only thing those 2 have in common is that you should learn to deal with both. Your statement is akin to a time in history when people who were startled by the new tactic of rushing the net, called serve and volleying cheap. Ridiculous.

    Also silly that you would say it takes skill out of the match. For one thing, patience is a skill. Moonballing certainly can be a low risk shot, but if you think it requires no skill, why not just outmoonball the moonballer? Could it be that he is better/more skilled at it than you? I believe that playing the moonballer is actually a real test of skill and development, once you reach a certain very high level(generally around 5.0), the moonballers won't bother you much anymore(unless they also have 5.0 skills to back it up).

    "Takes skill out of the match"....do you really think this guy could beat Federer, because he is more patient and has nullified the difference in skills? Does Fed stay up at night, sweating, worried that someone will start using this cheap tactic against him? Well if you ever hope to beat Fed moonballing, I hope you have other 7.0 shots to back it up or you're toast.

    When I was young and just starting out in the game, I hated moonballers/pushers, they forced too many errors in my power game. I thought it was cheap. Eventually I grew up and realized, the problem was not them, it was me. They can hit the ball any way they want, just as I can, that's the beauty of tennis, there is no "right" shot. Many styles and shots can work in many situations. Accepting that helped a lot. Eventually, I grew to love playing them, my power became more consistent, my arsenal more versatile, now those guys are a chance for me to dictate the match any way I want. I sympathize with the frustration they can cause, but don't be a poor sport, accept the loss and the challenge they present, with a good attitude and hard work, one day you'll own those moonballers.
     
    #39
  40. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    It's not a question of 'owning' the moonballers...

    Playing a moonballer, or a 'pusher' is simply extremely boring. It's not a match of skilled shots - it's a match of safe shots. Like a boxing match where one guy throws no punches - just defends against his opponent's punches. It's like if a football team simply punts the ball away on first down for the entire game. It's boring and cheap.
     
    #40
  41. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,332
    I still don't get how it is cheap and you never answered my question, was I cheap when I had a broken arm and had to serve underhanded? Wait, I said that wrong. Was I cheap when I had a broken arm and served underhanded even though I could have served an overhead serve? And punting the ball all of the time is stupid, not cheap. And if playing a moonballer or pusher is boring than I guess the French is boring too 'casue that is really all that they do there is have looong rallies. And I still think the only reason you find moonballing cheap is because you don't know how to beat a moonballer.
     
    #41
  42. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    I didn't answer your 'questions' simply because those 'questions' are entirely irrelevant and rather dumb.
     
    #42
  43. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,332
    Well I still want to know if I was cheap. And it was only one question, not questions. And are you sure your not answering my question becasue you know serving underhanded and moonballing isn't cheap?
     
    #43
  44. tennisadict

    tennisadict Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    592
    it`s cheap cause don`t have to take a lesson to hit moonballing,they dont teach moonballing at the academy
     
    #44
  45. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,332
    You don't have to take lessons to learn anything else either, I'm walking proof of that.
     
    #45
  46. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    Boring yes, cheap NO.

    In addition, unlike many other sports, you cannot simply run out a lead in tennis until the time limit is reached, each point must be played until the end. Whether you moonball or not, your opponent has the chance to play each and every point. If one is not good enough to change the type of points being played, then it's your own fault. Opponent is not obligated in any way to help you play the way you would like.

    You seem to imply here that the only way to respond to a moonballer or pusher it to do the same in kind back, this is not true. You have an equal chance to create the type of points you would like to play. You simply have to be good enough to pull it off.

    You can go into a boxing match and if the other guy throws no punches, you're free to do whatever you please. A great boxer will beat the stuffings out of a guy who throws no punches. Unless the other guy counterpunches, in which case, he is doing something and you blame him for that. Nothing cheap about being a counterpuncher.
     
    #46
  47. Cypo

    Cypo Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    355

    Can you moonball ? Personally, I don't find it easy, and I suspect that people who can moonball don't complain about playing moonballers. If I play a monnballer, I'll try two or three points to see if by chance, they aren't as consistent at it as I, but since I'm probably as bad at moonballing as you can be and still get away with it, I don't usually find moonballers I could beat that way.

    It's a strategy - same as any other, but probably only effective up to the 4.0 (most points lost due to impatience) level.
     
    #47
  48. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    Data, I'm not addressing the issue of 'moonballing' or 'pushing' from the perspective of 'how to beat them'.

    Nor did I say that one is obligated to play using a style that is agreeable to his/her opponent. But everyone certainly maintains the right to consider certain 'styles' or tactics cheap.

    Nor am I implying anything.

    I am simply stating, flat out, that I find this particular 'style' to be both boring and cheap - an easy way out. Rather than make the effort to better their play, moonballers are content to lull their opponents to sleep. I thus consider 'moonballing' as a chosen style of play to be cheap and lazy.

    Just as I would advise the boxer who does nothing but defend himself against his opponent's blows to learn how to become a better boxer, I would advise the pusher/moonballer to learn to play better tennis. Taking this advice will lead to everyone involved having a more enjoyable experience on the court.
     
    #48
  49. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    Yes, well I agree with most of this and realize you aren't addressing the issue of how to beat them. My only grievance is with the label "cheap". To me, "cheap" connotes something underhanded or illegal or undeserved. I don't think moonballing is any of these things.

    But you're right, you're certainly entitled to call it that and perhaps your usage of the word is a bit different than mine.

    Usually the only tactics I tend to call cheap are cheating or gamesmanship. If wer're talking physical strokes and they're not illegal, I say it's open game and if you can pull it off, good for you.
     
    #49
  50. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    Datacipher - I wouldn't sweat it. What you said is absolutely correct. Moonballing is a legitimate tactic.

    If it were cheap, then I suppose, too, bunting and playing hit-and-run baseball rather than going deep, are cheap tactics in baseball. I don't know much about hockey, but when the team that is trying to kill a penalty sends the puck the length of the ice to give their goalie some respite, I guess that's cheap too. Punting the ball in football is WAY cheap, rather than toughing it out and risking giving up field position to the opposing team. In hoops, PASSING is cheap. Yeah, these days in the NBA, ANYONE who passes the ball is just a punk.

    Deuce is just some testosterone-juiced stud, who goes for each and every shot for a winner-he has said as much in other posts, as I recall. So it's no wonder he would call this tactic "cheap". I think he's lost to a lot of moonballers and pushers, and either STILL loses to them or is very bitter about the experience of having been schooled by them. I lost to a lot of them too- at least at the 3.5/4.0 level and below. Eventually, as you said, you learn how to put away short balls and hit a swinging volley...Deuce obviously has not, and curses the pushers who continue to plague him to this day. So what's the defense mechanism? Call them "cheap"...question their integrity and manhood.

    Fine. To me this phrase comes to mind: "Show me a pusher and I'll show you a room full of trophies." What makes tennis a great game, is it accomodates many, many playing styles-not just bashers, and the challenge is adjusting (not changing) your own style to deal with contrasing styles. Some people are too immature to understand this.
     
    #50

Share This Page