ITF president says ban unlikely for Serena; Agassi comments

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by THUNDERVOLLEY, Nov 7, 2009.

  1. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    So, after all of the anti-SW faux legal threats, cries for Serena being permanently banned, etc., it is likely to come down to another fine, which--as Bitti points out--"Of course it may not be significant for Serena Williams, who earns tens of millions." In any case, we will all know the real turn-out by Tuesday.

    On the other hand, Agassi's mouth opened a door he may not have predicted in the wake of his gossipy tell-all....
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
    #1
  2. JankovicFan

    JankovicFan Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    611
    USTA would be included, if any ban was for the US Open instead. It involves USTA, ITF, and I assume WTA. Yes, the Australian is the upcoming ITF level pro event, but it is not a USTA event. USTA governs the event at which the offense took place. However, she was already cleared to play doubles immediately afterward, so I expect it is all a tempest in a teapot, dragging it out long enough for the outrage to die down.

    What seems offensive still is referring to the scripted apologies offered as sincere or genuine. You just can't have the same person playing both characters. Give us a break. Unless there is schizophrenia or some other alternate personality involved here, everyone is just going through the motions, trying to "fix it". Skip the unconvincing, sweet and innocent, "don't know what got into me" act. It feels like "I'm sorry (smirk), but meant every word of it. I am never wrong. Do you know who I am?"

    I don't hate Serena. What I hate is not doing the right thing because of who it is.
     
    #2
  3. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,274
    If Malisse and Wickmeyer didn't report their whereabouts then they are as guilty as anyone who tests positive. Especially a guy like Malisse who has been around long enough. I know most tennis players are not rocket scientists but they must understand, or have someone in their camp that understands. the rules. no excuse.
     
    #3
  4. settolove

    settolove Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    298
    Is anyone really surprised? WTA is in a terrible state as far as marquee players go, they can't afford to ban her.
     
    #4
  5. JennyS

    JennyS Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,294
    John McEnroe said her punishment should be being forced to play a lot of tournaments!
     
    #5
  6. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    LOL, Absolutely:)
     
    #6
  7. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,016
    Location:
    Weak era
    So they're sending a message that you can get away with death threat to an official as long as you're star? Typical.
     
    #7
  8. 1970CRBase

    1970CRBase Guest

    The message seems to be : you can get away with death threats to an official (and whatever else) as long as THEY think you are of use to them.

    And after her threats of death, threats of violence, threats of shoving of a ball down a throat; Serena Williams just wanted to give the lines judge (whom she threatened) "a big ol hug"! How forgiving of her. Everybody really owes Serena Williams the apology!
     
    #8
  9. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    ...which means nothing as no one took her rant as a serious intent to commit murder. Why? Because it was not. Some have the ability to understand this sans emotionalism generated by personal issues with a certain player.
     
    #9
  10. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    The point is to issue an apology, which occured; that random people are not convinced is irrelevant, as no one needs to put on a teary-eyed, head-in-shame show for an apology to be accepted.
     
    #10
  11. some6uy008

    some6uy008 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    456
    I agree. Seriously, some people actually thought she meant that?:roll: I think some people here just don't like her and will say anything against her
     
    #11
  12. jwbarrientos

    jwbarrientos Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,884
    NO Mac Donald's access would be also appreciated :twisted:
     
    #12
  13. jwbarrientos

    jwbarrientos Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,884
    Back to Agassi

    Someone must say something serious, ATP should say that back 1997 rules an people running ATP were other people, but they are concern or worry about.

    ITF should say sth like that Agassi doesn't represent Tennis'values.

    Holy crap, nobody is paying attention to main issue, Agassi cheat everyone, waited for 12 years to go public?
     
    #13
  14. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,016
    Location:
    Weak era
    I don't care much about Serena either way so I'm far from having personal issues with her or letting my emotions cloud my judgement.

    Yes I don't think there was an actual intent on her part(I doubt anyone does)and what was said was in the heat of moment but I still think that threatening official in such a way(with physical harm)should be sanctioned more(say being forced to miss the next slam)than the average outburst that is common for players.I would feel that way if any other player did the same(even some of my favourites like Fed or Nalbandian).

    With that said this doesn't surprise me as I never expected that there will be any serious sanction against Serena because she's by far the biggest draw in tennis(for a good reason,I'm not disputing that)and the field that is lacking star players at the moment on top of that fact so they need Serena even more.
     
    #14
  15. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    What this means though is that any player can now threaten violence and shout at officials on court and only get a fine!
     
    #15
  16. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    As of this day, the response is "only" a fine because TPB do not see it as a real threat.
     
    #16
  17. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Location:
    People's Republik of Kalifornia
    one player not banned at all for offensive behavior witnessed world-wide.

    two players banned FOR ONE YEAR for failing to report whereabouts!!!
    Guess that ban won't "penalize the people handing out the punishment"!!!

    Tennis justice obviously isnt blind to the incomes of the players being judged! :shock:
     
    #17
  18. some6uy008

    some6uy008 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    456
    One on court outburst during the FINALS where emotions were flying high versus violating the rules 3 times.
     
    #18
  19. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,709
    Location:
    S. Florida
    Just goes to show that the powers that be cannot be trusted to make a decision that can effect their own bottom line.
    It is like politics where someone from the other side is vilified for the same actions that someone from their own party did, yet they defended them a few years back.

    I do not know why the USTA is giving her a pass especially since she is not playing Fed cup for us this year, and we will lose in the finals as a result. They should have at least coerced her to play otherwise they would drop the hammer on her. Then again the PC types and apologists for their racist father would scream racism just to help minimize her punishment.
     
    #19
  20. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    I still think that Serena getting a bit nasty on court, shows she is passionate about winning, but also shows she is sometimes a bit nasty!

    What annoys me about her is that afterwards she pretends that she is this lovely gentle person, and what happened that day didn't really happen!

    My message to Serena is carry on expessing yourself, but don't pretend to be someone your not!

    I'll stay a fan as long as you stop being a hypocrite:)
     
    #20
  21. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,612
    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    No, not "ONE on court outburst".
    Serena committed TWO assaults on the lineswoman.
    First with the finger pointing and death threat.
    The lineswoman went to the umpire chair.
    Then Serena approached her again waving her racquet a few feet from the woman's head.
    That SECOND assault then became an assault with a deadly weapon.

    If this pair of rulings were not so sad, they would be laughable.
    Failure to report location ..... one year ban.
    [ Is that not a Pre-Crime conviction ? ]

    Threat of violence which includes a death threat.......... no ban at all.

    Very sad. These officials should be ashamed of themselves.
    And their names should be remembered for the future record.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009
    #21
  22. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,672
    It might go waay back to when they slapped Johnny Mac on the wrists for his tirades.
     
    #22
  23. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    What is sad is how some actually believe SW posed any danger beyond a heat-of-the-monent rant. The law (as some were desperately hoping) did not step in as no crime occured. This imagined "assualt" was nothing of the sort, hence zero legal action from any involved up to this day.
     
    #23
  24. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,055
    I agree - the assault and threat were imagined. The lineswoman who made the (incorrect) call tried to play the victim by claiming to the umpire that Serena threatened to kill her. That is why I have always said that there was something shady about her. She seemed to have been waiting for the right opportunity to bait Serena with an incorrect call and then play victim. I would not be surprised if it was motivated by something else, which is also speculated in the latest issue of Inside Tennis.
     
    #24
  25. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    I would have thought that if you did what Serena did in an office at work, it could be seen as assault of some sort?

    I doubt if it would be, but it could be surely!
     
    #25
  26. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,055
    Yes, it would be grounds for immediate firing.
     
    #26
  27. rommil

    rommil Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    7,736
    Location:
    CT
    All tennis governing bodies decided not to suspend Serena when they found out it will require twice the amount of cables and metals to that of the Golden Gate bridge.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
    #27
  28. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,612
    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Imagined ??

    Assault does not require that you touch someone. Only that you make a threatening move toward them. Battery requires touching and there was no battery. And there were not one, but two assaults on Serena's part; before and after the lineswoman went to the umpire's chair. The second assault was an assault with a deadly weapon because she was waving her racquet a few feet from the woman's head..

    I think these are undisputed facts.
    Check with a lawyer if you do not believe me.

    And I am told several members of the crowd distinctly heard Serena say "she would like to" kill the woman.
    That is a death threat.

    I wish I was wrong.
    And I wish Serena's advisors gave her better advice.
    But she did commit a crime and so far has not received the appropriate punishment.
    If it had happened in an office or restaurant, she'd have been in jail within the hour.

    Equal opportunity for all ?
    Equal justice under the law ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
    #28
  29. Dude...just go watch it on youtube. She says shes going to kill her TWICE. The second time she storms over to the line and says "I'm going to ******* kill you!" The first time she said the thing about the ball. You can hear it on the direct feed footage. Now it's the lines woman's fault? Come on now...

    There is simply no excuse for what Serena did. To all those that say it was not "assault" try doing that in public with something you could use to beat someone in the same manner she did. See how far that gets you.
     
    #29
  30. Objective Danny

    Objective Danny Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692

    I not sure but I believe the post you quoted was sacrasm. All rational, Objective posters think the punishment should be a 6 month ban and a 250k fine.

    That'll get her attention.
     
    #30
  31. Man I hope it was, it's hard to tell around here sometimes. I'm sure there are people who believe what he wrote so...if it was sarcasm my bad. It's just that it's too accurate to tell.
     
    #31
  32. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,970
    Location:
    New York
    The name I would like to remember is that lineswoman's because frankly her call was absolutely outrageous and I can only hope she's looking for another job at the moment. She had it coming big time, I don't mean threats, but a furious reaction by ANY player who would have been a victim of a call like that at that moment in the match! I'm really looking forward to not seeing that woman judge a tennis match ever again. Of course Serena should have controlled herself but still...
     
    #32
  33. But if she foot faulted...it's a fault! So if Serena hit the second serve a few millimeters long they should play the point? They should just let a fault go? I hope you do realize that a fault is a fault. There are two ways to do it, with your feet or with the ball. The video makes it clear Serena's foot moved in some fashion. Hard to tell where it was from the angle. Calling it "absolutely outrageous" is what is absolutely outrageous.

    Listen people...a fault is a fault..ok? There is no "don't call it on big points" rule. If you are inside the court, or your ball is outside the box, the serve is not good.

    Can this argument please be laid to rest? (wishful thinking I know)
     
    #33
  34. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    Was it a footfault then or not, that's what I want to know?
     
    #34
  35. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,970
    Location:
    New York
    The foot fault in question was completely controversial. You saw a foot fault, good for you. I and half the viewers saw no footfault at all (I guess it all depends on the camera angle, doesn't it?). The least you can do if you're gonna call a footfault for matchpoint is to call it on something blatant, not on something very arguable where maybe the tip of the toes scratched the line. I know we won't agree on this though since both camps are adamant about what they saw. No doubt Serena should have kept her wits about her no matter what but the match was extremely tense and I would have liked a proper ending. Yes, Serena's reaction was inappropriate but the call was absurd as well.
     
    #35
  36. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,055
    Who are those "several members of the crowd?" The same ones who tried to run the Williams out of Indian Wells?

    A guy head butted another guy after a tennis match and left him with a bloody nose, and there was no prosecution. Check the Adults Tournament section.

    If it was a deadly weapon, why was it allowed on court? What a stupid logic to associate a racquet in a player's hand with a deadly weapon. If it is deadly, it should not be allowed inside the premises.

    I think anyone with common sense can understand what happened - a bad line call, probably deliberate, a lying and baiting lineswoman, and words spoken in the heat of the moment.
     
    #36
  37. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    It wasn't actually on matchpoint.

    And from what you've said the camera angle does not show if it was actually a footfault?

    So I would reckon the person with the best view was the lineswoman!

    I can't believe some people are actually having a go at her, this is ridiculous!
     
    #37
  38. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    What on earth are you on about?

    "A lying and baiting lineswoman"????????????????
     
    #38
  39. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,970
    Location:
    New York
    It led to match point. Well, you're gonna have to accept this incident was controversial and give Serena a break because personally I did feel the lineswoman was baiting, maybe it's the wide smile that was plastered on her face during and after her call and her general attitude. I can't prove it of course and it doesn't really matter in the end (Serena was still wrong to do what she did) but Suresh is not the only one who saw it this way so you just have to accept that sometimes things are more grey and grey than black and white and Serena did have some mitigating circumstances. And for the record I was watching this match as a neutral spectator, I am neither a fan nor a hater of either player.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
    #39
  40. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,055
    A possible motive behind the lineswoman's actions was alluded to in the latest issue of Inside Tennis, as well as the correctness of the call. And I have nothing whatsoever to do with the magazine.
     
    #40
  41. Umm...where exactly did I say I saw a foot fault? I said it was hard to tell from the angle they showed. However movement was clearly visible. I swear, you gotta be able to read and understand what other people are saying before you basically say you're going to agree to disagree. But, how can you say she barely scratched the line? If she was a half cm on the line that is, IMO, a CLEAR foot fault. Is that what happened? Not sure. But I would hope the lady was just doing her job.

    The only thing "controversial" about it, was that Serena flipped out. If she would have just said "shoot I goofed" to herself, no one would be going off on that woman for doing her job. That's just an age old smear tactic really. I really see zero ground for Serena or her defenders to stand on. Maybe it wasn't a foot fault at all, even though there was movement, but the way it was handled was atrocious.

    I still completely disagree with the idea that you don't call foot faults on big points. Unless it's obvious? You're either touching the line or you're not, should be an easy call to me. Bottom line.
     
    #41
  42. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,970
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks. I really want to read it. Is it something you can find online or do I have to buy the magazine?
     
    #42
  43. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    I am neutral as well, and I was actually there!

    It was a really entertaining incident to be honest, the crowd went absolutely mental, but did ruin what could have been a really good end to the match!
     
    #43
  44. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,970
    Location:
    New York
    As I said I couldn't see a foot fault and I found the way the linesjudge called it (exaggeratedly gleefully) disconcerting. I know I won't convince you, that's OK but I'm happy with the WTA's decision. This didn't deserve being banned from the tour. She was already penalized by losing the USO semi-final, since her outburst lost the match for her, not her racquet. That's a pretty big punishment already, adding a fine is OK, demanding an apology is OK, doing more than that would be harassment.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
    #44
  45. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,055
    She was playing the little poor victim of the big rich spoiled girl, and she was thrilled at having been able to take out her anger on Serena. It was plastered all over her face. And she is not a young girl who didn't know what was going on. It is a way in which insignificant people get a kick out of hitting out at rich and powerful people.
     
    #45
  46. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    She would have almost certainly lost that match anyway, so that's not really a punishment is it!

    Let's face it, if almost any other player had done that they'd probably have had some sort of ban!

    Like I said earlier, this now sets a precedent, and anyone shouting and threatening officials in this way will only get a fine, which isn't really good is it?
     
    #46
  47. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    Put it this way, if the lineswoman had walked up to Serena and shouted threats etc what do you think would have happened?

    Face it, rich/famous people are privileged and get away with things they shouldn't, it happens all the time!

    But it ideally it shouldn't happen this way, but it always will becuase they have the power!
     
    #47
  48. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,055
    The same thing that would have happened to me if I go and shout a threat at someone in the mall.

    However, it is NOT the same thing as when a soccer player is upset with a foul call and hurls insults at the referee. He gets fined and penalized, but nobody calculates that his boot with spikes is a deadly weapon and could be used to kill the referee.
     
    #48
  49. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    ^^^^^^Fair point!
     
    #49
  50. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516

    BS. No crime was commited, no legal action taken or suggested by any legal body in the state on behalf of the so-called "victim." There was no "assault," no matter how anyone wants to rewrite the books just to target Serena Williams.
     
    #50

Share This Page