I've Already Arrived at the Fifth Stage of Grief

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by winstonplum, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. winstonplum

    winstonplum Hall of Fame

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    I've accepted that Nadal isn't going to win this USO. The grieving process started in full in Miami when I can could no longer just deny that IW was a fluke. Then I got angry during Madrid and Rome. I guess I bargained a little and got Wimbey. Montreal and Cincy led to depression. Now I've accepted things as they are. I also had an epiphany one night when I was falling asleep and realized that from now on, in the big tournaments the minute Nadal gets knocked out, which will be becoming earlier and earlier, I will immediately send all my rooting energy towards Muzza. I will get my first chance to do this starting in the USO. I would be very surprised if Nadal makes to the quarters, and if he does Ferrer will make minced-meat of him. For years Ferrer has been a poor-man's Nadal; now he just possesses all the qualities that Nadal once had in spades but are now diminishing rapidly: a motor that just won't stop; spectacular defense, incredible concentration on each point, etc. Who will knock out Nadal in the first four rounds? Let's look at the draw. I just looked at it. Who knows? One would think he wouldn't struggle with any of those guys he could meet. Mahut? Youzhny? I'm guessing of a repeat of AO--lose to Ferrer in the quarters and Ferrer loses to Muzza in the semis.
     
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  2. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I think you are being a little dramatic,but I too am rooting for Murray in the final. I know he won't beat Djokovic,but one can hope.

    And I think Nadal is ripe for the pickin' against anyone he plays regardless of the round or their ranking. I fully expect him to lose in the first week,his form has been so poor,and even if he makes it to the second week he will lose if not to Ferrer than definitely Murray.
     
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  3. winstonplum

    winstonplum Hall of Fame

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    Of course I'm being dramatic and silly. Gotta have some fun on here. It's not a doctoral thesis.:)
     
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  4. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Nadal is ATLEAST a lock for the semis. He's almost a lock for the finals even if mental midget Murray shows up.

    Nadal's cakewalk draws continue so stop over-reacting,kthx.
     
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  5. celoft

    celoft Guest

    I suppose you will have to wait until clay season 2012 to see Nadal win again. He has only won on clay this year... That is telling.
     
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  6. Outbeyond

    Outbeyond Legend

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    Wow! You've given up already...

    Nadal's made it to the finals for the past two GS events. He played through a health problem with Ferrer and all the sudden you think Ferrer is Nadal's nemesis? I don't recall Ferrer making it to the ANY GS final this year...

    Djoker is the ONLY nemesis Nadal has and he's out to take care of that. Everyone else is troublesome but not troublesome enough to prevent Rafa from making it to the final.

    Go ahead and give up. Definitely not me.:twisted:
     
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  7. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Nadal has no opposition till QF, once he gets there things may have changed alot from what you see today.
     
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  8. Polaris

    Polaris Hall of Fame

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    Relax dude, and don't grieve. Nadal isn't going away so soon. He'll be fine. I'm a Federer fan and as much as he sucks lately, I'm not grieving yet.

    Don't read this forum, if it helps. People exaggerate everything here, especially the so-called pundits on who will win what and who will remain "still slamless". You know who they are. Just ignore them and enjoy your tennis.
     
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  9. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Don't give up man.....Nadal still has majors in him. Even if he doesn't win this year again...he aint decling. Think of it as a bad luck.

    I never give up on Federer even if the truth hurts some times. The truth Nadal fans is that Nadal ain't done....so at least you guys have something positive to push by. Be Patient.

    At least I am hoping Federer can steal this one before Nadal fires off next year.
     
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  10. HiroProtagonist

    HiroProtagonist Professional

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    Yup, I got him losing to Ferrer in the quarters, but he will beat Gulbis to get there not Youzhny.
     
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  11. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

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    LOL! You're hoping that Murray beats Djoko in a major final? Seriously dude, did you start smoking the good stuff too :)

    IF Murray plays Djoko in a major final, he won't win. Guaranteed. Probably not even get a set.

    The only guy who's A game can beat Djokovic is Federer. Murray won't do it. And Nadal sure as hell can't do it.

    So unless Fed becomes TMF and takes out Djoko in the SF (even then Fed would need a lot of luck), the Serb's winning the UsOpen without too much trouble..
     
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  12. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Im definitely ready to see what happens and how Novak/Fed/Rafa all play. All 3 have statements to make.
     
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  13. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

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    Nothing lasts forever. Nadal has already won 10 majors which is much more than I expected when he was injured in 2009.

    He's had 7 seasons at the top level, and I think he'll probably call it a day in 2012, and certainly the timing of the autobiography is indicative..

    I don't think Nadal has anything left to prove to himself or anyone else. And as long as he is at peace with that, that's all that matters...
     
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  14. BeHappy

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    It's really a miracle Nadal ever managed to win a USO. It's the one major he should never have been able to win. Murray, Federer and Djokovic were all in a huge slump at the time and he was playing the best tennis of his life and that's the only reason he won it.
     
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  15. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

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    I could say the same thing about Fed at the F.O 2009.

    Bottomline: Nadal played excellent in UsO 2010 just as Fed did in F.O 2009. Both players had a little bit of luck, and they made the MOST of it to complete the career slam.

    What's wrong with that?

    The same thing could apply to Djoko once he win the F.O next year to complete his career slam..
     
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  16. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    No,hence where I said I know he won't beat Novak,but that doesn't mean I can't hope for him to. Rationally I know better,though.

    And Fed did not play good tennis at RG 2009. He played some terrible tennis to get to that final,unlike Nadal,who played well all the way through the USO last year.

    Djokovic has had it pretty easy himself this year with nobody playing well,and he's been able to win with ease. I hope that next year people will actually stop bending over for him and play some decent tennis. Djokovic is not God,you know.
     
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  17. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

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    Gotcha. Cheers!
     
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  18. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    Nadal is in decline. Looks like you are already past the first step which is denial. Congratulations.
     
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  19. BigForehand

    BigForehand Semi-Pro

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    so you are a fan of ****** and pushrray? two of my most hated players on the ATP. Congratulations.
     
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  20. bluescreen

    bluescreen Hall of Fame

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    Eh, I don't think many would call Fed's play during the '09 FO as "excellent." But he turned the switch on when he had to, and Nadal can do the same. He certainly doesn't look as doomed as his did in '09, and look what happened the next year.

    Basically, you can never count the big two out.
     
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  21. rafabull

    rafabull Semi-Pro

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    Djokovic wins Indian Wells: Denial
    Djokovic wins Miami: Anger
    Djokovic wins Madrid: Bargaining
    Djokovic wins Rome: Depression
    Djokovic wins Wimbledon: Acceptance......
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Z3lmidmrY
     
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  22. TennisFan3

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    Dude.. Please STOP living in the past. As I said before, nothing lasts forever.

    Let's keep things in perspective, this will be in all probability Federer's first slamless year since 2004.

    By the same token, 2012 could be Nadal's first slamless year since 2005 (unless he gets Wimb, where IMO he has the best chance).

    Do you think, at this stage of their careers, either Fed or Nadal will be satisfied to be slamless, and just make the finals?

    I wouldn't be surprised if Federer and Nadal BOTH retire in 2012. Basically Fedal are DONE. Time to move on..
     
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  23. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I agree,but I still give Federer a better chance at winning another slam than Nadal. I honestly don't see him winning Wimbledon again,especially with Djokovic around,and people can forget about RG,AO,and definitely the USO. He will never win another slam,and next year will be his first slamless year since 2004. Would have been this year if not for Federer saving his a**.
     
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  24. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    I agree 100% with you. I'm just saying if Nadal doesn't win the USO it isn't really a failure like it is if he doesn't win RG or Wimbledon.
     
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  25. bluescreen

    bluescreen Hall of Fame

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    Are you serious? (I can never be sure on this board.)

    If Nadal can bounce back from '09, 2011 is like a walk in the park. He has an issue against one player. Federer has had that against Nadal for years, and how many slams does he have?

    Yes, Djoker has had an incredible year, but that's all it is so far. A year.

    Of course Federer and Nadal won't be satisfied with a mere finals appearance. This is very poor logic. They aren't satisfied with a finals appearance, so their conclusion is to retire? Wouldn't continuing to play and give themselves more chances to surpass a finals appearance make more sense? We'll see I guess.
     
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  26. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    I agree with some of what you guys are saying, but we can't put Djokovic's name automatically on every single slam from now on either. It's not guaranteed he will play like this next year. Look at Rafa last year and then this year.... Novak will be the age Rafa is now this year... you just never know.
     
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  27. winstonplum

    winstonplum Hall of Fame

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    I guess that's always possible, but I'm just basing my feelings on what I've seen this year. Based on that I don't think there's a chance in hell that he can beat Ferrer. Like zero chance. To beat Ferrer, Muzza, and Djoker or Fed, I think is a pipe-dream. I mean, I'll root for him, but the difference is that I don't expect him to win. That's why my OP was kind of comical--I've just come to grips with the fact that I don't expect Rafa to win the big matches, again, based on what I've seen this year. I expected Rafa to win in Miami, Madrid, Rome and even in the Wimbledon final. The quarter again Fish in Cincy was the first time in years that I didn't expect Nadal to win a match he played. I simply thought he had very little chance to win and wasn't disappointed that he lost. It's what seemed pre-ordained to happen; I think Nadal will actually lose in the first, second, or third round.
     
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  28. Outbeyond

    Outbeyond Legend

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    Keep dreaming.:twisted:
     
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  29. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    True,but with the lack of decent competition for Novak,how can he lose? Who in the world is going to beat him? That's why I think it's more than a safe bet to choose him to win at least 4 out of 5 of the next slams.
     
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  30. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    No doubt you're basing your assumption on Djokovic playing on top form throughout the tournament like he's been doing for most of the year. But he already started to slow down at Montreal and what if his shoulder problem at Cincy proves to be the start of an extended slow-down? He may still be able to play and win most of his matches but when he gets into the later rounds, that shoulder niggle may start to tell and then all bets are off !
     
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  31. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

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    Don't be deceived by what happened in Cincy. You could see from the press conference that Djokovic was just biding his time and was careful to peak at the correct time. If Murray, Djokovic meet in the UsOpen, it won't be pretty. (and I mean for Murray).

    Overall, to me it seems that Djokovic has a GREAT chance of winning a calender year grand slam in 2012. IMO it's better than even Peak Fed's 2005, 2006 and 2007. During those years Peak-Fed had Nadal to contend with on clay. Where as Djokovic has NO REAL opposition on any surface. Especially during the next year or 2 where there is a huge gap with Fedal on the decline and no new youngsters.

    So, If Djokovic plans his schedule cleverly (as he has done this yr) to peak at the slams, I think he has a good shot at becoming the second player after Laver to achieve the remarkable feat in 2012...
     
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  32. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    And that to me is a shame because Djokovic is not nearly the player Federer was in his prime,yet he could not do it thanks to Nadal. There are countless tennis players who are better than Novak who were never able to do that. It seems completely unfair.
     
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  33. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Interesting...so are you implying then that Djokovic faked the shoulder problem and deliberately tanked the match because he wanted to make sure he peaked only at the US Open?

    Even if this were true, it would still imply some insecurity and uncertainty on Djokovic's part. If he was fully fit and raring to go,why tank the final? Why not just win it and move on to his next conquest, like he's been doing all year?

    Truth is, he started to slow down at Montreal and the problems got worse at Cincy. Can he fully recover his peak strength and fitness again after just one week's break in time for the USO? Seems doubtful unless he HAS been exaggerating it. But we'll soon find out.
     
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  34. bluescreen

    bluescreen Hall of Fame

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    This very well could be, but we're ignoring two glaring factors right in front of us: he's already lost a match at a major this year, and he's retired from a match with injury this year. He lost to Federer (on Fed's worst surface), so there's little reason it couldn't happen again at any other slam. And another injury could rear its ugly head, this time at a major.

    And of course, there's the mental aspect of having to defend his monumental year. You know how they say it's one thing to crack the top 10, but it's another to stay there? It's the same challenge here, only magnified. Djoker is riding a wave of "what can he do next?" In 2012, it'll be a "can he do it again?" kind of pressure.
     
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  35. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

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    That's why as I said before, this talk about determining the GOAT based purely on numbers, slams and stats is a load of crap. Quality of competition, timing, luck have a lot to do with it also. A guy like Djoko in the late 80s or early 90s probably wouldn't have won too much considering the depth of the field then..
     
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  36. TennisFan3

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    Look, I'm not taking anything away from Murray. He beat Djoko fair and square in Cincy. And in all honestly, Murray should have beaten Djoko in Rome 2011 SF also. Furthermore, I don't think Djoko's shoulder problem is a big deal. Had he won set 1, Djoko would have continued the Cincy Final match. Trust me, he'll be 100% firing on all cylinders in the UsOpen.

    Anyway my only problem with Murray is that why does "this" Murray NEVER show up in slams? I've always maintained that Murray has the talent to do anything, but I've been repeatedly dismayed by his performance in slam finals. I'm not taking anything for granted unless he actually goes out there and wins one. Until then, I'd never put Murray as the favorite over the likes of Djoko/Fed in a slam..
     
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  37. Cormorant

    Cormorant Professional

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    What is this insatiable greed whereby some Nadal fans teeter on the edge of despondency when their favourite is at anything but his very best? He's been hoovering up big titles throughout his career, so his supporters should be glad of the time to reflect on the embarassment of riches he's shared with them. All this worry and 'constructive' criticism makes me wonder what Rafa could possibly do to appease those fans who seem to depend on an uninterrupted run of success. From here on in, you should just appreciate whatever he does, such as when he reaches Stupid Saturday a fortnight from now.
     
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  38. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    I didn't say you were and I agree. I wasn't talking about Murray but Djokovic possibly tanking the final as you seemed to imply.

    So you tend to think that Djokovic's retirement was a bit of a cynical, calculated move? I do believe that the shoulder problem was genuine all the same.I can't honestly see why Djokovic would have pulled out of the match if it wasn't.

    It seems that every time Murray appears in a Slam final he comes up against an opponent even more determined to win than he is. He was a bit unlucky to face 12 time Slam champion Federer in his maiden final at the 2008 USO straight after a two-day marathon beating Nadal. Federer himself as well as Nadal and Djokovic were a bit luckier in their maiden Slam finals because none of them had to play a previous Slam winner unlike Murray. Getting on that Slam rung was a little easier for them IMO and once you've got the first one under your belt, the second one is that much easier.

    But Murray will just have to knuckle down if he really wants that Slam which he does. But even if he does give it his all, there's no guarantee he will succeed and there's no disgrace in that however disappointing.
     
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  39. Outbeyond

    Outbeyond Legend

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    Listen, let's face it: Murray's topnotch, even when he does not win a slam, which is typical to date. He's "in there" with the Big Guns and they embrace him as one of Them. So do we. Uber-talented, albeit a bit unlucky, Murray is as good as Djoker, Nadal and Fed but he's not got their gumption. In other words, he doesn't really believe. If he did, he'd be trading GS stories with those guys year in and year out. At least now he can still trade stories about being on top while losing. It's not like they've never been in his shoes.
     
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  40. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Awesum thread. OP should talk with Veronique for some solace, sadly she's moved out due to Irene. Perhaps a group hug between Nadal fans might help.... Veronique, Lolville, aphex, michael and winston.
     
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  41. winstonplum

    winstonplum Hall of Fame

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    You're wrong about him being there on "stupid Saturday" (why's it stupid; he'll be long gone by then), but you're probably right about our greed. I guess I've gotten too caught up in the whole chasing-Roger thing. It's been the story in tennis for the last four years. Nadal's had a great career. Period. There's no need to compare it with Fed's.
     
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  42. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    That is only if you are a *******, *******s love to compare it! :twisted::)
     
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  43. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    It ain't Novak's fault Fed couldn't handle Nadal at RG, heck when you have a 1/17 BP conversion you don't deserve to win, period.

    Countless better players? Overall maybe(although Novak's career isn't finished yet)but he displayed a very high level of tennis this year, comparable to any other tennis great.
     
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  44. Telepatic

    Telepatic Legend

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    Who knows, Rafito will be nice rested heading to "super" Saturday thanks to his draw made by Uncle Toni.
     
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