Jack Sock's past & future?

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by hound 109, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Very true. Its hard to tell though as up until know he has probably not needed to have that great of footwork. I guess it really depends on how much he is willing to put into it. The opportunity is in front of him now. American prospects are so bad now that he looks pretty great. If he would have come out in the 90s it would not have been a big thing. In todays game Justin Gimelstob would look like a future contender. The Bar has been lowered somewhat in the last few years.
     
    #51
  2. droliver

    droliver Semi-Pro

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    That was my thought as well. BIG game but very awkward and inefficient movement. He does not move like a top pro. He might end up being a better doubles player
     
    #52
  3. BMC9670

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    A little optimism here, huh? After all, he is trying to make the leap to the highest level and is off to a great start. Sure, he's got work to do, but he seems to have many of the tools and the attitude and work ethic to develop those he lacks.

    My son had a nice exchange with him at the USO practice courts. Everyone was lined up trying to get Delpo's autograph and my little guy was shut out. He sees Jack stretching in the background and calls his name. Sock came over and signed his hat, big smile, and talked briefly with him. Afterwards the small mob moved over to get Jack's sign, many not even knowing who he was.
     
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  4. EP1998

    EP1998 Semi-Pro

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    He has all of the tools to be a top ten player. In today's game with training methods and other things available, big guys can be fast. I don't see that as a long term problem, especially as he matures.
     
    #54
  5. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    Maybe, the verdict is still out! He went 80 and 0 in high school tennis, but that's high school. I am rooting for him because we need good American players, but for every big strong kid there is here there's another up and coming big strong kid somewhere else. He is one of many kids coming up in tennis. Roddick gave him a lesson in the big leagues. Top 10...I don't know, I'm
    not ready to say that just yet!
    I was amazed how many people where focused on him like he was the next Nadal or Federer, already! Shouldn't he have to at least win a lower tier tournament, first??
     
    #55
  6. ga tennis

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    Sock is gonna be great.The guy has a good serve that will only get better and the kids got heart.That was ridiculous them showing Berger and the other u.s.t.a.joke tryin to give them ANY credit!
     
    #56
  7. magnut

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    Yes I found it pretty disgusting as well. Attention *****s trying to legitimize their money making scams. When people show you who they are it best to let them. What I have seen from the USTA in this tounrnament has pretty much cemented my views on what both the USTA and the ATP has become.

    Very sad for me. I didnt this this would happen to tennis this quickly. Soon I feel it will all come crashing down.
     
    #57
  8. chalkflewup

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    So do you think they staged the entire scene? The announcers, the camera crew, Berger & friends? Perhaps a few dry runs in hospitality tent?
     
    #58
  9. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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    //////////////////////
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
    #59
  10. chalkflewup

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    I really don't think they care about my perception or your perception of them or any perceived affiliation with Sock. If that were the case, they would milk affiliations they have with other players.
     
    #60
  11. magnut

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    LOL. Great sarcasim there. :)
     
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  12. ga tennis

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    What other players?? A bunch of d1 college players no pros of any significance.
     
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  13. chalkflewup

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    Some guy named Fish.
     
    #63
  14. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Great post. Agree 100%
     
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  15. ga tennis

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    Must be another Fish because the Fish that lost today came thru Saddlebrook.And how the hell did Jay Berger get to be some great coach he hasnt produced anything!And Jose hadnt done jack s@$# in the last decade.
     
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  16. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I hope this was a joke. Fish is going on 30 years old. His dad was a tennis pro, he went to Saddlebrook, then lived with Roddicks.

    Pat Mac and USTA high performance didn't discover him or develop him.
     
    #66
  17. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    That might have been the silliest post ever by chalk. Implying this crew running USTA high performance had anything to do with Fish is hilarious.
     
    #67
  18. ga tennis

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    Even worse is Patrick Mcenroe what does he know about junior tennis? Its sad that some people get these great jobs due to their name.P mac hasnt ever produced one single junior and Berger what a joke!
     
    #68
  19. magnut

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    Whats even sillier is how Pmac made it onto the tour. Research his results its quite an eye opener.
     
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  20. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    And what possible sense does it make to give a super important job that should take every waking minute and a 60 hour work week to a guy who has other jobs?

    What braniac decided that Pat Mac, while he was Davis Cup captain and announcer and writing a book....while never having developed a junior in his life....was the man to run USTA high performance?

    It truly boggles the mind.
     
    #70
  21. ga tennis

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    Get a real coach like Saviano or Macci someone with some credentials
     
    #71
  22. chalkflewup

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    Who is Fish's coach?
     
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  23. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    The discussion is about what pro players the gang at USTA high performance is responsible for discovering and developing. What on earth does a 30 year old's coach have to do with the mission of USTA high performance?

    In fact, just the opposite. Once again guys getting put on the payroll who have too many unrelated jobs.
     
    #73
  24. magnut

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    You need to understand how this stuff works. If you get people who actually know what they are doing you jepardize the stability of the USTA. They are not looking for people to rock the boat. They want people who will continue the status quo. Thats why it has survived this long.
     
    #74
  25. chalkflewup

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    Status quo? So are you saying QS didn't rock the boat? And Saviano was on the USTA payroll as former director of coaching for Men's tennis. And while Macci is a great coach and has touched some great players, he only played a part in their development. Madison Keys developed her game at Evert over the last few years and has moved on to USTA. Evert did a great job with Keys but there comes a time to move on. As tennis parents, most of us have been in that position. She didn't move over to work with P-Mac as that's not his role. It takes a village.
     
    #75
  26. cmb

    cmb Semi-Pro

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    Arthur Surreaux is american
     
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  27. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Actually the discussion was originally about Jack Sock.

    How he got to be the player he is today.....& what kind of tennis future he might have.

    College scholarships going to 20 year old non-american eastern block Euros.... & the failures of the USTA in general ..... & the failures of Boca in particular (& the slimyness of P Mac & his buddies) are all great topics.

    Start a thread on them.

    This thread is about Sock.
     
    #77
  28. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Thats not how this works. We discussed all there was about Sock, until he plays again, its a dead thread.

    So the discussion morphed into the guys sitting there and acting like they helped him. A natural progression for a thread that would have died long ago and it then went on to spark some interesting content.
     
    #78
  29. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    I started the thread & some have hijacked the cr*p out of it.


    I've been gone all weekend & this thread has gone in 3 different directions (all good topics & worthy of their own theads, imo). I'd prefer this one stay about Sock.


    Items still unknown to me regarding Sock:

    - Was he a pusher or a banger in 12s? (There are REASONS why parents of juniors would be curious about this & other items).
    - What caused his injury in 14s?
    - Why didn't he go to Boca or Carson? (Was he asked?)
    - When did he move to Overland Park? (Did the family move to be near Wolf?)

    - Will he be a future top 10 player? (i think so)
    - Do he & Harrison get along (or not)? (could they push each other like prior generations of american men players)
    - Will Sock & Harrison be the #1 & #2 US players 3 years from today (do they have the goods?)

    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
    #79
  30. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    I wasn't "concerned". Just curious what his path was.

    & getting out for the day..... of a non high powered school at 1:30pm or 2pm would still leave lots of time for 3 hours of tennis as well as a couple of hours of fitness &/or strategy etc. (& a couple of hours for homework ;)).

    Lots of good points, mojo....thanks for posting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011
    #80
  31. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Great info. That's funny what Wolf says.

    Is this a public school? I've never heard of of this type of flexibility.

    Thanks for posting this.
     
    #81
  32. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    This is my take 2ndServe.

    The info on his site says he "started" at age 9. If he was playing at a high level at age 8, then i smell a sandbag. :)

    Thanks for this info.


    Good post. How is Wolf the "perfect coach" for Sock?

    Would he not have developed elsewhere with his raw talent? (at another "academy"....i'm not asking about Boca)

    .
     
    #82
  33. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    I agree, magnut.
     
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  34. ClarkC

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    Because he teaches an all-stroke, all-court game, where so many today teach everyone to be a baseline grinder. Sock's touch around the net would be wasted by many coaches.
     
    #84
  35. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Very true, and he also keeps him grounded yet confident. I met Mike at a clinic a few years ago, good guy. Here is a little interview with him and Sock.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xddt4q_fox-sports-interviews-coach-mike-wo_sport
     
    #85
  36. PennAlum

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    A kid I know who plays in the Big 10 played Sock all the way up fron the 12s says Sock was always a pusher. When Sock was winning all those gold balls and had nothing to proove, he always remained in his age group to collect more gold balls. He was kind of a running joke in his age group at that time.
     
    #86
  37. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Ha, this post shows the problem with American tennis. Not you poster, but what you describe as the things the other kids and parents said at the time.

    1. Pusher is used as a cover when a kid loses to a better player. So is cheater many times.

    2. A coach and player can have a long term goal and use younger age group tournaments to work on touch and point construction.

    3. Sock has a killer serve and forehand, not a pusher now. I GUARANTEE you he had that at 10,12,14,16. But he most likely used them in practice and used tournies to develop other aspects of his game.

    4. I think the 'running joke' is now on everyone else. All the clowns that played up to remove pressure. Sock defended his age group and took on all comers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011
    #87
  38. ga tennis

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    I think he should let Berger ruin his game.
     
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  39. andfor

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    You nailed it. The joke is on those kids and parents who characterized him as a pusher in the juniors.

    Also sounds like the kid Penn knows was bitter Sock was winning multiple juniors against his peers. This is a new twist I've yet to hear, if said player is winning too many nationals he's maligned for not playing up.
     
    #89
  40. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Great post. Yeah, it is funny how bizarro world exists in American junior tennis. Kids play up and remove all pressure, call the kids who are actually learning the game pushers.
     
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  41. PennAlum

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    It remains to be seen who the joke is on. Harrison always played up to develope his game and play tougher competition. Sock has taken the road less chosen and if he doesn't succeed, the joke is on him. He has turned pro and there's no turning back. You see, the other kids and getting a college education. The tour is littered with American players who turned pro and can't make a living at it...remember Timothy Neilly, Marcus Fugate....and on and on...
     
    #91
  42. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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  43. andfor

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    We know who the joke is on.

    The odds are against anyone making it as a pro tennis player. It's easy to say (insert junior tennis player name) won't make it on the pro tour, and be right. If Sock does not succeed on the pro tour I am sure he'll be able to find a place making a living in tennis somewhere. Sounds to me as if you are suggesting after winning consecutive Kalamazoo titles, the US Open Juniors (at age 17), a couple of Future's singles and doubles titles and reaching the Semi-Finals of the US Open Mixed (w/Melanie Oudin, not exactly a known doubles expert) before he would even start his freshman year, he should have gone to college. His going pro won't stop him from going to college later on if wants to, will it?

    Neilly and Fugate's junior careers are not the best comparison to Jack Sock. Martin Blackman went back to college, got a degree and even coached at American University. Scoville Jenkins is in college and assistant coach at Kennesaw State.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011
    #93
  44. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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    ------------------
     
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  45. andfor

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    Good post. I was not debating but found Penn's reference to Jack Sock turning pro, the virtue of attending college and the failure of a couple of kids with jr. accomplishments that pale to Sock's perplexing.
     
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  46. The_Expert

    The_Expert Guest

    why did wolf lose his academy?

    :? i'm trying to understand why wolf lost his academy?
     
    #96
  47. andfor

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    Looks like he merged and moved it to another club. Can't find any story on the rational behind the move. From what I can find it looks like the move occured roughly June of 2010.

    http://www.elitesquadtennis.com/programming/the-academy-at-estc
     
    #97
  48. dode

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    I don't know who you are and I can't say I really give a crap either, but I am seriously offended by these comments. I guess I am just one of the uneducated Kansas hicks that can only bow down and kiss the feet of those higher educated types such as yourself, but what in your mind makes us so vastly inferior to you? Is it our one-room school houses, or maybe the horses we ride to class?

    We have finally managed to get this fancy thing called the internet out here in the sticks, so maybe in the next 20 years we can work on catching up with the rest of the modern world.

    If you are really a "coach", I hope for your students' sake that convey messages like this on to them.

    John
    proud lifetime Kansas resident
     
    #98
  49. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Offended by a post on the internet? Really? His principal says his school has zero policy on how many days he misses, his own coach says he barely made grades, and Kansas is known for trying to get a curriculum in schools with a certain religious bent. So I made some jokes loosely based on the facts, that is what jokes are, exaggerations based loosely on facts.

    Just put me on your ignore list if you get offended by some jokes. Don't be so defensive, you like where you live, enjoy. I have been to Kansas several times, thought it was awful. Free country.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
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  50. TennisCoachFLA

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    Sounds like you have some negativity against Sock for whatever reason. I think he made the best decision and I usually support college for most players.

    I think he has a better shot at being a steady money making pro than Harrison. If I had to choose one to go to college, I think Harrison could have used college more, to mature emotionally. But I support his pro quest too.

    Sock has natural talent, a special gift, incredible touch with a killer forehand and very good serve. I think he will be a better pro when all is said and done than Harrison. But hopefully both have nice careers.

    When I saw Sock play as a junior I got the feeling that he looked like a guy off the street, acted so nonchalant. The other boys were like "how can he do it and I can't". He would kind of wander out onto the court, chomping gum, relaxed, looking around, and them stomp on the other boys. I just think Sock's casual vibe brings out the jealousy in some other players. He made it look so easy and that POs some people.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011

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