Jack Sock's past & future?

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by hound 109, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    You seem to not even understand the material you are posting. If 35 states have a cut-off date between August 31 and October 16, and 3 states have cut-off dates on or before August 15, then a player with a November birthday is expected to turn 18 in November of senior year, and 19 in the fall of freshman year in college, in at least 38 states. The Japanese player in the other thread had a November birthday, was set to turn 18 during 12th grade, and people were claiming that this was unusual. Yet, it is expected in at least 38 states, and another 6 states leave it up to individual school districts.

    Only 6 states have cut-off dates between December 1 and January 1.

    I am not in the camp with the 20 year old son who graduates high school. I am in the camp with people who can read and comprehend English. Do you even understand the implications of the cut-off dates that you posted? If so, why post stupid remarks about how the rest of the country is not Virginia, when Virginia's September 1 cut-off date is typical and a December 31 cut-off date is exceptional?
     
  2. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Excellent take. Love the Larry Bird comparison. I always use the Joe Montana example......a 3rd round pick went on to become the greatest (or one of the top 3) QB of all time. Wasn't huge, wasn't quick....but anticipated what his teammates & his opponents would do better than anyone. He also NEVER failed to hit his receivers hands on 3rd & 5.

    Sock may not be as "quick" as some pros, but he (& Ferrer & Murray & others.....John Mac had it) have these intangibles that allow them to compete at the highest level even without having the perfect forehand or being the quickest dude out there.
    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  3. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Thats what excites people about Sock and has for years. He can appear nonchalant at times, slower at times, but he just has a special talent. The game seems to move slower for him in his mind than it does for other players, same thing we say about the greats in other sports. Like I said, he may not ever be a great player, but at least he has the chance because of his special talent.
     
  4. PennAlum

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    You don't know what you are talking about. Her opponent is a big hitter off both sides, very consistent on the backhand however inconsistent on the forehand. She loses because she misses forehand on big points. Definitely not a pusher.
     
  5. PennAlum

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    Larry Bird and Joe Montana played TEAM sports where quickness is not a determining factor. However in tennis you go head-to-head, toe-to-toe with your opponent. When you opponent runs you ragged, you can't pass the ball or have a teammate set a pick for you. Lindsey was playing a women's game. Heck, fat women and crappy servers can compete in the WTA and be top 5. Sock has accomplished very little in the pro game (KZoo is not the pro game) and TCF sees him as the next coming of a can't miss top 10 player? Haha, what's excuses will TCF makes when he turns into the next Donald Young?
     
  6. tennis5

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    I am in the camp where people read all the words and don't resort to derogatory words like "stupid" to prove their points, but I notice that many of your posts are written in that distinctive mode of expression and littered with words of that manner. Is that how you conduct a debate? If you need to do that.. why even respond.

    I stated underneath the 35 states -
    " ( And another website listed a lot of the states above going to November 30th)"


    And I didn't include California and CT in the list as they are moving their date out of December.

    You started this whole cut off in response to the Japan boy by stating
    "Students born in November of 1996 are expected to be in the 9th grade this year in the typical USA school system. If you disagree, please post a link to the guidelines of a school district that say otherwise."

    The point is not every state is Virginia, and it does not represent the country in terms of cutoffs.
     
  7. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Come on now Penn, you surely know what you are doing. You are personalizing your analysis. It makes no sense, anticipation and seeing the game in slow motion help in any sport. Sock has those things and it helps him. I said he may never be a great player but he has a special gift that makes it possible.

    1. You and your son know McHale hence every post about her is positive, every accomplishment a thing to be touted.

    2. Your son and his friend's played juniors, sometimes vs Sock, Sock has risen above them in tennis while appearing nonchalant at times. That bugs you. Every post about Sock is negative.

    3. You obviously don't like Donald Young. But the guy made it into the top 100 in the world while having a super thin boned body. What Donald has done with his small frame is off the charts....multiple junior slams, broken the top 100 as a pro. Yet everything you say about him is negative.

    We all let our emotions color our posts but lets not pretend to be giving an unbiased analysis.
     
  8. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Thanks for bringing this back to Sock, Clark C.

    There are some here who are confused on how the USTA ranks & how TRN ranks.

    Age cut offs are cut & dried in the USTA. Thanks for pointing out that Sock's age (in relation to his competition) was never an advantage when ranked by USTA.


    First off, it's an internet board. People gripe & whine on internet boards.

    Also..... this is a "comment" & "opinion" board. & since it's probably the best (or only) board of its kind for american tennis juniors (& parents of american juniors)......it kind of makes sense for folks to come here to ask questions, gripe or whine about tennis related topics.

    TCF & ClarkC, i ask questions (& sometimes gripe) because i want other's opinions (or validation) because many here have already walked in my shoes. (can't get these informed opinions or information anywhere else). Just because someone has an opinion (or gripe) & shares it here, doesn't mean that it would be part of a parents reality with his child. For some of us, it's just information gathering....with the knowledge that some of the information is worth what we pay for. ;)

    & I very much agree with your comments about "no excuses" (for a competitive junior). With wind, sun, heat, cold (& cheaters) a competitive junior (imo) should have an answer for any of these challenges that he may face. Manage the damn problem....don't whine about it.

    Many who post here are parents of 8-10 y/o kids. They hopefully won't whine or gripe in front of their kids (yes, i know some do :( , but hopefully most won't.). But many are just trying to get information & informed opinions. (i first posted here 2 years ago & that was my motivation).

    & to bring this back to Sock......I suspect he had a checklist of things to do when he had to play in the wind......or in the heat/humidity.......or against a blatant/known cheater. Obviously he managed these obstacles successfully.
    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  9. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I agree hound. My comments about no whining refers directly to kids as they are playing. USTA tournies sometimes become cesspools of complaining and accusations about cheating and pushing, etc.

    My comments about parents directly relates to Sock. A poster called Sock a pusher in juniors and my observation is that this is usually a cover story for the fact that he beat their kid or someone else they know.
     
  10. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Hound, good post.

    The difference for the cut offs for ages for USTA tournaments and the TRN rankings shows up many times
    when a kid is held back and achieves a higher TRN ranking, but never wins or comes close in a national tournament.

    In regards to the whining, I would agree that a basic tenet of parenting
    is that feelings flow up from the child/but NEVER down from the parent.

    So, I doubt any parents on the board at the end a bad match would ever sit around complaining to their kids,
    but instead end up complaining on these boards.
     
  11. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    :)

    Everytime a smaller person.... beats a larger person who hits it harder.....approx. 98.67% of the time, the smaller person is accused of being a "pusher". ;)
     
  12. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Yup, and from what I can tell, a large % of the time kids lose its because they were 'cheated'.
     
  13. PennAlum

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    TCF, you can't stand it when a board member disagrees with you. I am not personalizing. I personally know just about every top ranked junior in the last 10 years or so and I wish them all well and sincerely hope they all make it. It would be great if they all made it but I know it is very difficult to make it especially in the men's game. I have nothing against Sock or Young but you like to conjure up phantom jealousy where there isn't any. I just call them the way I see them and you can't stand it when someone disagrees with you because you are so full of yourself. You patrol the junior board more than anyone interjecting your opinions on every subject and every player. I only drop by occasionally. I have seen more juniors and pros play live than you will ever see. And I have seen these players in live matches many, many times over the course of many years. I have seen their development over the years. I see their improvement or lack there of. You may think you have just by watching on TV and listening to the so-called expert opinions. You don't necessarily see the spin and heavy momentum of a struck ball off the TV. You don't see the quick first step and court sense of a player on TV. Have you ever seen Young or Sock play live? I didn't think so. I express my opinions just like everyone else but you just can't let it go, will you. Get a life.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  14. SoCal10s

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    I don't know about Sock being a pusher ,but this pusher is in the finals in the mixed doubles in his first grand slam pro tournament and has a chance to go away winning the whole thing.. how many players in the history of all the grand slams ever played won a championship on their first try ?? this kid knows how to win.. congrats to Sock and Oudin ..
     
  15. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Deep breathes, count to ten, relax yourself. You are not disagreeing based on anything factual. Yeah, I have seen Young and Sock play multiple times. Was at IMG several times when Young trained there. Saw Sock play 3 times as a junior.

    You are defensive because its true. Young gets to 74 in the world....you only post negatives. Sock is doing very well and experts say he has some gifts.....you say ugggh, he is a pusher with no future. McHale is a limited player....she bats her eyes at your son and blamo....she is the next Steffi Graf.

    You are fun to play with.
     
  16. SoCal10s

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    nice.. ""get a life"" ... haha
     
  17. PennAlum

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    TCF, man you're a fool.

    I had dinner with a coach from the esteemed College Park Training Center which is a regional USTA High Performance training center where Kudla, Junior Ore and Mitchel Frank began their tennis odyssey. We were talking about up and coming junior players and he thought the Mitchell Frank had the it factor and could be a top 20 player. My contention is that to be a top 20 player, in general, the player has to make it to the top 75 within 5 years of turning pro otherwise he is a journeyman who may have a few good years but will not be top 20. (Note: Donald Young failed this test). Isner, Roddick, Fish, McHale all passed this test.

    I had seen Mitchell Frank play at the US Open qualies a day earlier and contended that I didn't see what he saw and that I didn't think he had a chance on the tour although he was a great junior. We had an interesting friendly debate and we both knew that it was the future and only the future knows the answer. We agreed to disagree and wagered a bottle of wine on Mitchell Frank in the future. He thinks Frank will be top 75 within 4 years of turning pro. We shall see.

    However TCF is such a fool that he adamantly thinks that Sock will be top 10 and only he can tell the future. He doesn't abide by a friendly debate without personalizing and debasing the discussion with contention. He likes to distort other peoples' comments because this is his little world and he really needs to be right. Really, get a life.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  18. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    I was there for the last 2 sets. Wozniak's supporters did not have many points to cheer about. I guess she hit heavy but did not go for it all the way. Mostly hit everything back and did some angles. Sometimes went to the net, mostly unsuccessfully. Not impressive at all.
    Do not want to diminish Mchale's win. She was probably under tremendous pressure during this match that she was expected to win, with all USTA Player Development top brass sitting there together with their kids and yourself.
     
  19. PennAlum

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    "We're talking about practice, man. I mean, how silly is that? We're talking about practice...I know it's important...I honestly do. But we're talking about practice, man. What are we talking about? Practice?"
     
  20. andfor

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    Sock is now in the finals of the US Open Mixed. But, yes I know, wait for it..............that's only mixed doubles and does not mean anything. Even though they beat Lizel Huber and Bob Bryan, still means nothing. Mixed doubles at a GS has nothing to do with quickness or tennis skills for that matter.

    My bad. He still has accomplished nothing in pro tennis.

    Sock is a pusher and a running joke.
     
  21. PennAlum

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    Props to Sock, hope he wins it. Yes, you're right, has nothing to do with men's singles. Bryan brothers do not have any measure of success in singles. I've already said before that Sock has a good chance at making it it doubles. He has a big serve and great hands. Do you have distorted and selective memory recall like TCF?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  22. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Re-read your post Mr. Selective Memory. You said he has accomplishe very little in the pro game. I'd say a mixed GS finals in your first month of being a pro is huge.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  23. SoCal10s

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    if Sock wins the mixed ,he'll take home about 100K for his first season of turning pro.. not bad at all.. only a few months of turning pro and 100k richer(before taxes)..that's more than I make in a year... congrats to him..
     
  24. PennAlum

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    We are talking singles, that's the focus. When you think of great American tennis players, we're talking Sampras, McEnroe, Agassi. As great as the Bryan brothers are, they are not in the same conversation. Can anyone name who has won the mixed doubles at the US Open last year? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  25. PennAlum

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    $150,000 split = $75,000 will help pay for the rigors of the tour. $35,000 if they lose.
     
  26. SoCal10s

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    yeah plus he got some 30K for second round singles showing..and some change for the men's doubs..but I'm sure he got some sponsors for his travel and other expenses ...
     
  27. PennAlum

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    Nice, plus he gets a membership into the Final Eight Club provides a US Open credential to any player (and a guest) who has made the quarterfinals in singles and semifinals in doubles for the rest of their lives.
     
  28. PhilAnderson

    PhilAnderson New User

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    You're a moron.
    We're talking about a kid playing his first USO and he's already in the mixed doubles final and all you can do is say he's a pusher? Really?
    This kids is doing fantastic and all you can do is put him down saying he'll never do anything.
    Well guess what, look at McEnroe, fantastic singles AND doubles player.

    Do you expect this kid to be making the semi-finals and/or finals on his first shot? Come on be realistic in this day and age there is rarely a kid that makes it that quick.

    How about you look at Federer's past? Do you expect everyone to be like Nadal or something?
     
  29. chalkflewup

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    Gilles Simone is a pusher... SO WHAT!!! He moves like a gazelle and beats you into making mistakes. I love watching pushers win.
     
  30. PennAlum

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    Look MORON, I never said he was a pusher! Just because TCF distorts and inflames and said I did does not make it true. I said a player who plays for Michigan said he was a pusher in the 12s! GOT THAT! IN THE 12s! Read carefully before you bark, moron. Happy now, TCF?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  31. PennAlum

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    Gilles Simon is a very good player, saw him on court compete against Isner. His technique is very sound. IMO, Donald Young is not in his league, not even close.
     
  32. SoCal10s

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    I'm LOFL ,moron calling.. this is the first word I learn how to insult people without getting slapped down by my dad..
     
  33. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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  34. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Easy big fella, here is your quote:

    "A kid I know who plays in the Big 10 played Sock all the way up fron the 12s says Sock was always a pusher. When Sock was winning all those gold balls and had nothing to proove, he always remained in his age group to collect more gold balls. He was kind of a running joke in his age group at that time."


    When you said "all the way up from the 12s" and "always a pusher", that read to us like you were saying he was a pusher in the 12s, all the way up through the age groups, and still is today...."always".

    Now you clarified that you meant he was only a pusher back in the 12s. Confusion cleared up, no big deal. Have a good weekend.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  35. jigglypuff

    jigglypuff Rookie

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    No biggie, semis tomorrow with the 4 best players! Predictions anyone?

    I say Fed and Rafa in the Finals with Fed winning it.
     
  36. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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    --------------------
     
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  37. Fedace

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  38. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    Dang... PennAlum is a meany. lol. Dude chill down. haha.
    Congrats to Sock!
     
  39. ClarkC

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    So, because Donald Young turned pro at age 15 with a small boy's body, and was at least 5 years away from having the kind of body to compete as a pro, the 5-year clock starts ticking at age 15 for him while it starts ticking at age 18 for someone else. So, if Donald Young does not make top 75 by age 20, he cannot make the top 20. There are no exceptions to this rule. Suddenly realizing how hard you have to work, as Donald Young did less than a year ago, cannot lead us to make an exception to this rule. DY might have wasted a few years, and is no longer wasting years, but that does not matter. There are no exceptions to the magical 5-year cut-off. Got it.

    I cannot find the post where TCF said that Sock will definitely be top 10. Can you link to it or quote it? Thanks in advance.
     
  40. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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    Sock and Oudin win!
     
  41. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Great job by those kids. Sock just has 'it' in a lot of ways. His dry sense of humor is classic, like what he said about losing to the Bryan brothers in doubles:

    "He'd lost to the top-ranked Bryan brothers in men's doubles earlier this year, a "thrashing" that lasted 38 minutes.

    "I think that included the warmup," Sock added."

    What a cool kid with a bright future.
     
  42. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Simone is a GREAT player and that was my point. But I would not classify his technique as flawless. He doesn't blow people off the court BUT he's arguably one of the fastest guys on the tour, he keeps the ball in play, and he has an extremely high Tennis IQ - and his results back it up. As for Wildcard Young, not a fan...way too much entitlement for me.
     
  43. Ledigs

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    No offense tennis5, but Latin? You listed an ivy league prospect schedule there. You can finish high school without all those extras c. He's good enough to go pro then that's his career. HS can be finished in numerous ways and it's their choice, ESP after age 16.
     
  44. PennAlum

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    Let me help you with reading comprehension. First, I did not voice the opinion that Sock was or is a pusher. I relayed that the kid I know who played Sock all the way up from the 12s stated that Sock WAS always a pusher....he was a running joke in his age group AT THAT TIME. The operative words are "WAS" and "AT THAT TIME" which conveys a past tense, an earlier time period.

    I never saw Sock play in the 12s or 14s, only in the 16s and 18s. I have no personal opinion on Sock's game back then because I hadn't see it.

    Hope this helps you. There will be a test next week.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  45. PennAlum

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    Again, please read my quoted words:

    IN GENERAL means "being usually the case; true or applicable in most instances but not all." Bjorn Borg turned pro at an even younger age of 14 and he passed this test with flying colors. Ryan Harrison also passed this test turning pro at 15. Nadal turned pro at 15. Almost everyone in the top 20 reached 75 within 5 years. Hope this helps.
     
  46. andfor

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    Looks like the joke is on your sons friends. Sock is now a GS winner.

    You obviously know little about sarcasm and even less about tennis. Mixed doubles is actually men's singles with a couple chicks trying to mess up their match.
     
  47. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    PennAlum, voted TW poster most likely to have gotten beaten up daily in high school.
     
  48. andfor

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    He's got a real chip on his shoulders. I'm betting he's about 5'4" and has taken anger management courses.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  49. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Ha, I must learn how to use that bold letter feature like he does some day. It really makes your point so much better!
     
  50. Dream_On

    Dream_On Rookie

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    Explain davydenko then.
     

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