Jimmy Airias said they slowed down US open courts in 2010

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by RF20Lennon, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    During the fed-fish match yesterday Jimmy Airas said " I think they slowed down the court the year rafa won" he said the topspin of his was kicking higher than usual and stuff. So my curiosity is how exactly does one slow down speed up courts??? like the procedure. and do you think they slowed it down?


    PS. PLEASE DO NOT START A FLAME WAR. that is not the intention of this thread it is to know the procedure of how to change the speed of a court and if they slowed it down. Thank you
     
    #1
  2. Agassifan

    Agassifan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    2,508
    Pretty much. Although I don't know if 2010 was as fast as 2009.
     
    #2
  3. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,331
    They slow down hardcourts by putting in more sand in the coatings on top of the court.
     
    #3
  4. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Oh ok i see but as in do they have a set quantity of sand as in how much they need to put? if they do why do they change it every year? and thank you!!
     
    #4
  5. 6-1 6-3 6-0

    6-1 6-3 6-0 Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,657
    Agreed. And this brings us back to a suggestion I made earlier, a constant, cycling surface-changing US Open, to balance out the surfaces of the slams.
     
    #5
  6. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    So anyone on why they dont keep the speed constant every year?
     
    #6
  7. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,643
    Location:
    Dundee
    I don't know but the slowing of USO from 2010 onwards would make sense.

    USO 2008 final - Federer vs Murray two fast court specialists.

    USO 2009 final - Federer vs Del Potro Federer fast court specialist, Del Potro not sure exactly what he is?

    USO 2010 final - Nadal vs Djokovic two slow court grinder specialists coinciding with slowing of the courts. God knows why?

    And from there we know which same players dominate the slower courts.
     
    #7
  8. DRII

    DRII Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,431
    Airias is mistaken. I still have the 2010 USO final on my DVR, and the speed is much faster than last year (also on a DVR)!

    The women's final from last year really showed how slow the USO court played last year.

    And again, high bouncing and slow are not the same thing! Nadal does not really like a slow court; he prefers a court that carries his spin regardless of the speed.

    Cincy this week would have been perfect for Nadal! According to all the players its playing very fast but it is also bouncing unusually high; again showing the correlation between speed and bounce is not nearly as great as some claim...
     
    #8
  9. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    thank you!
     
    #9
  10. DRII

    DRII Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,431


    Weak logic...

    Nadal of USO 2010 was not a slow court grinder specialist! As a matter of fact: Nadal since 2008 is not 'just' a slow court grinder specialist, nor is Nole.


    Nor is Murray and fast court specialist!

    Very weak and unsubstantiated arguments all around on your part...
     
    #10
  11. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,111
    Location:
    Toronto
    2010 and 11 they slowed it because Rafa never made it to th final to reach Federer in the final.

    Now they slowed it down...Federer isn't there to meet Rafa in the final.

    They need to find a balance next year that would allow Fedal to play a final!

    jk...
     
    #11
  12. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    LOL!!!! hahahaha :)
     
    #12
  13. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    make two courts one fast and low bouncing other slow and high bouncing xD till they reach the final and then toss to choose which out of the two to use for the final LOL
     
    #13
  14. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,980
    " I think they slowed down the court the year rafa won"

    It's pretty clear that this statement implies "compared to previous years", so people jumping all over Arias because 2011 was slower than 2010 is kindda silly.
     
    #14
  15. Zildite

    Zildite Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,904
    Djokovic made the final in 2007 + both him and Nadal made the SF in 2008/2009 so it's not necessarily like some big change.
     
    #15
  16. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,233
    The correlation appears to be pretty steep, especially when comparing courts made of the same surface. Of course there are exceptions... For example, WTF 2010 courts were slow and low bouncing (which is why Rafa made the final). Those inconsistencies might have more to do with the ball than the court.
     
    #16
  17. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,345
    I actually wonder if, at some point, we're not going to see tournaments subtly implementing surface tweaks which they think will help Federer for a change. His resurgence is a godsend for tennis in terms of media - every major win he achieves is much bigger news compared to Nadal or Djokovic winning simply because there is the growing feeling that he's near the end of his career.

    In some ways it's a bit like Agassi in his later years - people just start pulling for the legend they see as the last bastion of the last era.
     
    #17
  18. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,941
    And of course everyone forgets the hurricane that happened in New York in 2011. The courts did not have a chance to fully dry out, nor were they played on before the US Open as they usually are (wear and tear on a hard court scuffs up the courts and makes them a little faster than a fresh surface otherwise would be).

    But no, we must all blame the organizers for "robbing" Federer of the slams he is entitled to by dint of being Federer. I've noticed over the last few years, Federer hasn't lost any matches, courts have simply been slowed down.
     
    #18
  19. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,561
    Is there not any data that can verify any of these claims? It shouldn't be too difficult to compare the courts from one year to another.

    I remember seeing something about bounce height of a certain type of shot at Wimbledon between two different years with Hawkeye during a match. If the ATP or ITF does keep this data, they should make it public, or someone should make it public for them.
     
    #19
  20. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,330
    Location:
    So Cal
    By 1 or 2% - big deal. Stop parroting what the talking heads say. Arias probably has hit tennis almost every day of his life since he was 9 - he can tell slight changes - the average TW poster wouldn't.

    They're still hardcourts. Big hitters can still hit winners.
     
    #20
  21. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,098
    Fastest of slow isn't that fast at all.
     
    #21
  22. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,098
    Just because 2011 was slower than 2010 doesn't mean that they didn't slow the courts down in 2010.
     
    #22
  23. ALL IN

    ALL IN Rookie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    349
    Slightly larger balls will effectively slow down ball speed in a tennis match. I'm not sure if there is an overlay that can be applied to an existing court without re surfacing it.
     
    #23
  24. tennisplayer1993

    tennisplayer1993 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    704
    Location:
    All Around The World
    they've slowed it down significantly since 2004
     
    #24
  25. tennisplayer1993

    tennisplayer1993 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    704
    Location:
    All Around The World
    i personally hate it. keep making all of the courts more homogenous. Make it less interesting.
     
    #25
  26. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,678
    Really poor analysis all round . first off correlation does not equal causation. Secondly even looking at correlation djokovic reached the final in 2007 as well.
     
    #26
  27. Seth

    Seth Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,324
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    Jimmy is the bane of tennis commentary.
     
    #27
  28. TopFH

    TopFH Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,439
    Which is why Federer handles Nadal comfortably at the WTF, even though it is pretty slow.
     
    #28
  29. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    29,333
    Location:
    Brave New World
    LMAO, but now USO pulled out of Hafa, no ?

    ;)
     
    #29
  30. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,233
    outside of 2010, wtf is fairly quick IMO. Nadal pushed Fed to 3 sets in 2010 when it was slow, but extremely low bouncing (lower bouncing than usual).
     
    #30
  31. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,569
    I don't think they would do that. You can't just do something without telling a governing body what you plan on doing especially if millions of dollars in prize money is at stake. If they do anything to the courts they need to notify someone they are doing it and it gets a full publicity in the news about it. They did it when they slowed down AO courts a few years back and the news outlets took it and were notified. You don't just plough and scrape the courts, add "sand" as someone said and redo the courts without telling anybody.

    Plus, I don't think they put "sand" I think that is you're interpretation of what you "think" they do, but you don't work in the field of resurfacing professional courts, so I don't think you should be commenting like you know exactly the make and layup of the procedure. It throws off other people who might believe you and it gives out the impression that people can just make up stuff that they feel they believe is true, but have no evidence that is what is being done.
     
    #31
  32. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,614
    wow, why the animosity?? did BP steal your lunch? FWIW, I've heard commentators (Cahill I think) mention several times that the amount of sand in the surface of the court could fluff the balls up pretty soon, and make it heavy and slow (which is what happened in 2011, apparently), so I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that BP could be right.
     
    #32
  33. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,643
    Location:
    Dundee
    Then why does Murray have more success on fast hardcourts eg Toronto, Cincinnati, Tokyo and Shanghai?
    And why have Federer and Murray now won 7 Cincinnati titles (5 and 2) between them and Djokovic none.
    Sure the likes of Djokovic and Nadal are great players on all surfaces and can still go far but not as comfortable on fast as the likes of Federer and Murray.
     
    #33
  34. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,980
    Yeah, BP is right. Silica is added to the colored top coat(s), green or blue, to affect the speed of play. The decision about "speed" is left to the tournament directors but they have to adhere to ITF standards which aren't very explicit, i.e. slow, medium, fast. Of course, weather can also affect speed/bounce.
     
    #34
  35. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Court speed varies at the US Open every year, and has for years, because new courts are laid down for each tournament and the amount of sand in the topcoat varies year to year. Ivan Lendl used to hire the US Open court builders just after they finished at Flushing each year and instruct them to build one more court at his house, where he would practice until the tournament started.
     
    #35
  36. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,464
    i hope it's fast this year. More fun to watch
     
    #36
  37. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,980
    I don't disagree with that. As I said, the ITF standards about court speed are pretty vague.
     
    #37
  38. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    i know but why change it every year??
     
    #38
  39. DRII

    DRII Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,431
    Yea, but 2011 was abnormally, awfully, painfully slow! To such an extent that last year is an aberration thus far. The USO has never been that slow before...
     
    #39
  40. TheTsongaKid

    TheTsongaKid Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    55
    Nadal would never have won USO2010 had they not dramatically slowed it down.
     
    #40

Share This Page