Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by The Gorilla, Dec 19, 2006.
He makes agaasi and blake look like roddick.
..a little extreme, but I agree that Conners was the best cosidering the racquet he used and the way he literally threw his body at the ball.
think Connors was the best at actually getting huge serves back in play allowing him to stay in point...as far as hitting returns back for outright winners, I'd have to give the nod to Agassi.
did yiz see those first 2 returns on the video?
Yes I did, Connors has/had the best return, even over AA IMO.
Considering Agassi played against bigger servers (including arguably the best ever), and returned the serve from the same position, if not closer than Connors--Agassi hands down.
And yes, Connors was also an incredible returner.
didn't return sampras's serve so good did he?Connors returned te 80's equivilants though.
???????? You apparently don't know about their history against one another. Agassi defeated Sampras 14 times in his career. So yes, I would say he was able over the course of their careers to return well against him.
No, he didn't. Other than Sampras himself, there was nobody Connors played who had the equivalent of Sampras' serve. By the way, Jimbo never beat Sampras (0-2)
I agree that AA returned against some big servers, but take a look at who JC returned against. Roscoe Tanner made Roddick look like a Junior serving, that is with the rackets that they were using. Many of the servers in the JC era moved the ball around the box more, plus there were a lot more of the serve and volley type servers in that generation. JC's return is a shot envied by many and feared by most who faced him. Look back on some of his matches and the SV boys stayed back a little more and attacked off the 2nd or 3rd ball in the rally. There are many factors but rallies today are few and far between, unless you keep hitting to Roddick's BH, he will rally with you all day.
Nice vid, but
1. The second serve that McEnroe threw at him was a floater. Even on his first serve, McEnroe could never get up to 120 mph until he started using modern racquets.
2. You could dig up hundreds of clips of Agassi hitting clean winners off of serves. He has hit winners off of Roddick's 140 mph+ serves.
John McEnroe himself has said that Agassi was the best returner ever, followed closely by Connors.
?? Junior?? Dude, you need to seriously get real. If anything it is the other way around.
On one hand you have Connors standing a little behind the baseline returning against 110?? mph serves.
On the other you have Agassi standing ON the baseline retruning 130+ MPH serves. HMMMM???
I take Agassi's return any day. By the way AA also played some seriously good serve and volleyers. Sampras, Becker, Edberg, Rafter, Krajicek, etc.
DUDE, lighten up on me, Tanner for his time and the racket technology 30 years ago, serving 110-120 was HUGE.
(deeeeeeeeep breath)Agassi defeated sampras when he was playing crap,never ever did he beat him when he was on,outside of the australian open.
No,connors never beat sampras,but he was 40 so you are just exposing your own ignorance there.I think jmac had the equivelant of sampras's serve seeing as he:was hitting the ball at 130mph consistently in '92,had an unreadable serve,if you look at the video you can see connors had no read on his serve and had to wait until the ball was struck to move.
1.Connors had to return a 115mph with a racquet that had a sweet spot the size of a peanut.Never mind the fact that they're playing with graphite racquets in that video.
2.Roddicks serve is inferior to jmacs,it has righty spin and is readable,giving agassi precious time to react,they and is generally not that fast,125-130,although he does hit belters too,they've slowed up the grounds giving you more time to react.
jmac is an a$$hole,he didn't put connors or lendl in his top 5 players ever,although he put himself and andre,(4 of my slams won in australia on incredibly slow rebound when nobody cared)agassi in there,despite his not being anywhere near as successful as the other 2,who were able to beat jmac.He hated connors,plus he's a media wh*re,he's always saying that this player and that player is the best ever at something,you have to take everything he says with a pinch of salt.
i never saw him play though judging this video he is one hell of a returner maybe close to my return king (agassi)
I agree, but to say Roddick's serve is a "junior" compared to Tanners?
incidently,wasn't jmac an a$$hole after hitting that passing shot 2min in?
Possibly one of the dumber statements I have ever read. Between 1993 and 1998 while Sampras was the undisputed # 1 player in the world Agassi beat him 6 timess. Including wins at Paris, AO Finals, Key Biscayne Finals, Montreal Finals, San Jose Finals, and Toronto.
PS: You could now let out that deep breath.
The only reason I brought this up, is because of the following idiodic remark you made earlier:
"didn't return sampras's serve so good did he?Connors returned te 80's equivilants though."
LMFAO! McEnore? 130 MPH serve?? LOL.
Connors' forehand was weaker than his backhand. Agassi was strong on both sides. I think Agassi had better control over his forehand returns than Connors.
The Gorilla, you know nothing about this subject (tennis). It is obviously not worth it to argue with you. Stick to playing tennis video games.
typical patronising remark from a passing troll.
All that tennis is awesome. I think his returns were really good and extremely explosive. Good find Gorilla!
in the future try getting video of a match that connors actually won. if his return was so great why didn't he win this match?
because his serve was so bad,and overall his game was not as complete as mcenroe's,similar to blakes losses to federer or agassi's to sampras,smartar$e.
LOL. You still believe McEnroe was hitting 130 mph serves in his prime?? LOL
I agree, if he had the equipment that ARod has, he'd be right there with him, same with Connors.
I KNOW he was,you are 19 and are too young to remember.
You are not very bright. McEnroe is my all-time favorite player. I grew up idolizing him.....so I DO remember him. And he WAS NOT HITTING 130 mph serves.
well,you were barely out of nappys before he finished up so I think you are talking crap.He served 125-130 consistently in '92,I watched it,I know what I'm talking about,he was serving 128 against goran last year in an exhibition.
Pardner, Pete Sampras wasn't even averaging 130 in '92, or ever really, and I don't think you're gonna find anybody anywhere that will say John McEnroe had a serve as big or bigger than Pete Sampras. Maybe he hit one or two last year with a juiced gun...not in '92 homeskillet.
Barely out of nappy's ??? You can't prove he hit 130 so you have continuously resorted to name-calling. It is you who apparaently never really saw J Mac play.
Kind of like your ridiculous "theory" earlier in this thread when you said Agassi only beat Sampras when Sampras was playing like crap. That was a funny one. LOL
Why don't you try proving your theory without insulting?
I didn't say he was averaging that,I said he was reaching that.His average is probably way lower,sampras's average according to anothe thread was 85mph,he reached the low 130's though.
I know what thread you are talking about, and it was 85 mph for second serves. LOL
You obviously don't comprehend very well what you read.
here is a link you might want to look at:
Yep. And I remember some of McEnroe's aces were slower than 100 mph. Who needs a 130 mph serve when you can ace people with placement ?
yeah that guy had sick placement and spin, especially that can-opener to the ad side. I would agree he hit fairly hard for his time, as it was always being commented on, but 130??? Come on.
Agassi definately faced bigger heavier nastier servers than Conners, so comparing them isn't meaningful. They were both the best returners of their day.
But, Connors looks better returning serves because of his intensity and attacking intimidating style.
Furthermore, Conners as a returner in my opinion put more fear uncertainty and doubt in servers than Agassi ever did.
I think plenty of servers said to themselves facing Conners "his return of serve could actually beat me today"
I think plenty of servers said to themselves facing Andre "he's going to rob me of some aces and serves that shouldn't come back today"
he DID,I just can't find any resources on the web detailing his biggest serve,had a look at the videos on youtube,not one of them looks at the speed gun,but I saw it with my own eyes,even last year when he played goran in an exhibition in queens,he hit 128 consistently,he's pushing 50.
LOL. You are too funny dude.
because of people like you who come up with crazy claims and then try to actually search for proof when there is none. remember, we are talking about when McEnroe was in his prime. HE WAS NOT HITTING 130.
"His (McEnroe) fastest serve of the match was 119 mph"
“It’s not like I’m not playing. I’m out there playing on the Champions Tour,” McEnroe said. “I play with some pretty big hitters. Ivanisevic is on the seniors tour and the guy serves 130 (mph).”
maybe he was serving with the wind on that day because if you read his statement, he thought 130 mph serve was pretty big and that's Ivanisevic's serve, not his.
true,but he regularly hit 125-130mph in his queens exo against ivanisevic.Anyway,I feel this thread is losing it's focus,Jimmy Connors is the greatest returner of all time,agassi couldn't hit the angles connors did in his second return.Most players look for free points off their serve,connors looked for free points off his opponents serve.
nice find mick. Thanks for sharing. As you said,,,,,,"good placement" and a 107 mph ace ain't too shabby.
I sense the ground shifting here.We are not talking about mcenroe in his prime,we are talking about mcenroe in '92,with his lickety split band new space age racquet.
I remember in the old days, the commentators always said Jimmy Connors was the best returner in the game. Later on somehow Agassi earned that recognition from the press.
I was at the us open in 1992, when MAC played Fromberg, most of his 1st serves were 99-105mph. I dont remember any over 110mph.
I think Agassi hit more winners, but Agassi also got aced a whole lot. Probably more than Connors. But maybe that's because the average serve speed was faster for Agassi.
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