JMac the *******

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by kanamit, Sep 7, 2009.

  1. kanamit

    kanamit Hall of Fame

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    Watching him commentate the Soderling-Davy match and instead of commenting on the match itself, he's complaining about GS attendees cheering for Nadal's opponents. "I bet 90% of the French Open audience had no idea what Soderling's first name was!" (JMac, you don't even know how to pronounce Soderling: it's SODERLING, not SAHHDERLING). "Can you believe that people here were chanting for Kiefer? What did Nadal ever do to them except give 110%."

    Believe it or not, JMac, some people just like to support the underdog! Hard to believe, I know, considering that you're the ultimate bandwagon jumper and brown-noser who effusively praises every top 5 player when they're on court. Also, can you learn to shush during points? K thanx.
     
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  2. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    actually a lot of ppl just don't like nadal, especially the french
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
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  3. uNIVERSE mAN

    uNIVERSE mAN Rookie

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    That's just the stupid accent the americans have. Like Vaahlee, instead of Volley.
     
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  4. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Not all Americans have that ''stupid accent'', just the ones from New York, like McEnroe.
     
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  5. Lifted

    Lifted Semi-Pro

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    You are clearly an uneducated louse.
     
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  6. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    The French giving zero support to Nadal has to do more with their general attitude than their supposed love for Soderling. Let's be honest for a second. Nadal never got much love in Paris,even though he is a 4 times champion there. The French(well actually the parisians not all the french) are snobs and they like their champions to play beautifully,which is pretty funny,since clay champions are usually grinders a la Nadal/Muster/Borg and so on.

    There are several facts going against Nadal in his quest for the approval of the RG crowd:

    -he's a grinder and the french like players with elegant game and strokes.

    -he's Spanish and for all those who know European realities,know that there is a underlying rivalry between the French and Spanish in a lot of areas,not just sports. It's like this with all big,important countries who are neighbors. It's not easy to see how the Spanish own them in football(both in the national team and clubs),win their GS slam event year after year,hell even in cycling Contador won the Tour de France.

    -he doesn't speak French and in France that helps. It's no coincidence that Federer and Henin are so loved over there and it's only natural because you can connect to the player better if he speaks your language.

    The French crowd wanted Nadal to lose so that Federer could win RG. It's as simple as that really. McEnroe knows more about tennis than any of us and if even he thought this behaviour strange then there is something to it and I don't think he is a *******. And he is not the only commentator who has mentioned that this is weird.To put it into perspective for Fed fans,it's like Federer getting little to no support in USO when he is in trouble because the newyorkers wanted Nadal to finally win and get a Career Slam. That would be an abomination,because Fed has always had the crowd on his side at his favourite slams.

    The underdog theory falls flat on its face and I will tell you why in a minute. If the french wanted a better quality upset they would have rooted for Nadal in the end of the 4th because a 5 setter is a better dethroning of a champion and they would have seen more thrilling tennis,because they would have made it to a deciding set. But,unbelievably,the crowd rooted for Soderling in the 4th set tiebreak,even after they guy had gained a large lead(he won that tiebreak 7-1 or something like that). In the one moment when their 4 times champion needed a bit of support,because he could have pushed the match to 5 sets,the french chose not to give that support. Many commentators said on the spot how weird that moment was but they were probably *******s,right?

    So Soderling eliminated Nadal. Does he receive a lot of love in the next rounds? Well not really,at least not like in the Nadal match. Then the final comes along. Soderling,the crowd favourite according to the underdog theory,is ignored by the crowd who turn to Federer,the huge favourite in that match. Besides soderling's box no one in that whole arena was rooting for Soderling,everybody wanted Fed to win. They cheered twice as hard for Fed's winners,gasped when Fed made errors and cheered on Soderling's mistakes. Kinda weird how they dumped the lovable underdog once their actual favourite player(fed) stepped on-court,isn't it? If they really liked Soderling,they would have pulled for him on that day but they didn't. They only turned to him when he got the job done,which was to take Nadal out.

    But hey,who am I to accuse the crowd,right? Then again I trust McEnroe's words more than I trust some TW'ers who want to believe that Soderling was cheered on in RG because he was the underdog,not because the French wanted Nadal out.
     
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  7. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    boo hoo, when you win, the less fans are likely to embrace you. and if you win ugly, even less fans are likely to embrace you. sampras was never loved at wimbledon
     
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  8. Aabye

    Aabye Professional

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    True, but I think this is a matter of there are a lot more Federer fans than Nadal fans, and the Federer fans are the type to cheer against a player like Nadal (or Murray, or Djokovic) to lose rather to hope Federer beats them himself. McEnroe likes a winner, and he can't understand why a person would ever cheer for a player's mistakes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
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  9. Aabye

    Aabye Professional

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    Very true, and any true professional wouldn't let it bother him/her unless the crowd gets out of hand.
     
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  10. clayrules

    clayrules Banned

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    actually a lot of people love Nadal except the french

    JMac is right, too many *******s watching when Nadal plays.
     
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  11. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    what a brilliant reply. im sure jmac uses the word "*******s".
     
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  12. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    This is stupid generalizing,it would be same as me saying all Nadal fans are whining excuse machines who follow tennis only because Nadal(aren't true tennis fans),don't enjoy any other players and can't enjoy a tournament if Nadal isn't playing in it.Now some Nadal fans fit type but to say in general that they are that way would be stupid.Unless Nadal/Murray are playing against some of my favourite players I never rooted against them in my entire life.

    French crowd simply doesn't like Nadal(for various reasons)regardless of Federer.Even if Fed wasn't in the draw they would root against Nadal and it's within their right,they paid the ticket and can root for whomever damn they please.
     
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  13. Aabye

    Aabye Professional

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    I would argue that this tendency is more prevalent in some Federer fans than it is other player's fans. Why? Because Federer has a lot more fans simply because of the media hype surrounding him. Like his pal Woods there are people who only cheer for him on the basis of his fame. I'm not saying that most Federer fans are like this, or that there are not Nadal and Murray fans who don't do the same thing.

    RG is one venue, and they have never cared for the Spaniard even before he won his first title. I chalk that up to his unorthodox style of play. And of course they can cheer for or against whomever they want, and Johnny Mac can say they are petty fools who can't appreciate talent for being that way.
     
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  14. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    This is true but the weird part is why they didn't give Nadal a bit of support. I mean the guy was the 4 times champion after all and he was in real trouble. No one is saying that he would have turned it around but they chose to ignore a champion going down,which I thought was very weird and so did the guys commenting whom I guess aren't as biased as us.

    Nadal knows how to handle rough crowds because he has played many DC ties. The weird part for him,and his uncle,was why he was ignored by the French crowd. Nadal didn't really need the French crowd in RG because he had few close calls in these 4 years. But in this year he had very real problems and the french chose to ignore him instead of trying to give him at least a little bit of support.

    The french can do as they please but we are talking about a 4 times champion,not just any player.
     
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  15. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    McEnroe has good taste.
     
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  16. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    the french support who they want. they did not "ignore him".
     
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  17. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Let's be honest here. Though it has nothing to do with Nadal, or the type of people Federerfans are, every fan who wants all the best for Federer would have rooted for Soderling in that match. This was Federer's one chance, his moment of glory at the French. He made history, while another title for Rafa would have been like I said it, 'another title for Rafa'. They like Roger a lot, and I think Rafa can count on a lot more support next year
     
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  18. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    lol, don't count on the latter of the french supporting nadal ever
     
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  19. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    I don't think JMac said that.....
     
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  20. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    I actually agree with this,especially after Tony's comments. At least Nadal kept it civil and said he was disappointed with the crowd but Tony called them outright stupid. Not a good move.
     
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  21. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Why not? Were they against him in 2005?
     
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  22. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    You probably have a point there but overall we should avoid generalizing IMO,despite belonging to different fan groups we're all still indivuduals.

    Of course he can say that and I agree with him to a certain degree,I think French fans aren't appreciating the clay legend that is before them.However that is more due to them being French(who'll never fully appreciate Nadal's game,they simply have a preference for different playing style)than due to the fact that there are a lot of Fed fans.Nadal is very respected in other slams and tourneys.
     
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  23. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    yes, they have always been lukewarm towards him
     
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  24. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Can't you respect something but still dislike it? I respect Nadal big time for the way he handles himself and the amazing athlete he is. But I'd never root for him, ESPECIALLY not on Clay, although he's an absolute legend on the surface. I think the French were far from disrespectful, and know how good Nadal is, but there's just a ton of fans in there who want Federer to make history. I know I would have rooted for Soderling BIG TIME if I were there. To be honest, the way I was cheering in front of my tv on any Nadal UE, or Nadal Df, I'm not sure I wouldn't have done that in the stadium. It was exciting, something spectacular was happening and everyone said this could be one of the biggest upsets in modern tennis history. Can we really blame them? I didn't blame the wimbledon crowd when they cheered for underdogs against Federer sometimes in 2007

    Okay, thanks
     
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  25. Aabye

    Aabye Professional

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    Perhaps I should have been more specific in my original post as I try never to generalize. My point was just that the OP overlooks this sort of thing.

    That was my overall point about RG being one particular venue. A lot of French players' games (a minor generalization, I guess) are more similar to Federer's than Nadal's and I assume that means the FFT encourages that style of play more, so it would be natural for a large number of French fans to be more supportive of Nadal. But the New York doesn't have quite the same hang ups, which is why I think Johnny Mac was a little surprised.
     
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  26. mtr1

    mtr1 Professional

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    He said in 2008 that Wimbledon was his favourite slam and the French people did not like that.
     
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  27. darthpwner

    darthpwner Banned

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    Stupid moron.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
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  28. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Great post.
     
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  29. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    honestly, i'd bet the french crowd was very happy to see contador beat their beloved armstrong !!! ;)

    of course there is some rivalry between neighbour countries, but i really think you overestimate it (and i'd think the rivalry is stronger with england, germany and italy).
    i mean... let's face it, nadal being very antipathetic, his agressive antics, his ugly game, etc. are probably the main reasons. for instance, ferrero and moya were well appreciated despite winning...

    but after all, i admit i can't really speak for the french crowd because i certainly hate nadal a lot more than they do... :)

    oh and by the way... speaking french certainly didn't help leconte to be crowd-loved in 1988 ! ;)
     
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  30. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    They'd be more happy to see England bombing the Eifeltower than Armstrong winning another Tour
     
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  31. kanamit

    kanamit Hall of Fame

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    So not one person at the French Open cheered for Nadal's opponent because they wanted to support the underdog?
     
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  32. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    OK, let's make clear this is just a sports matter, because I've been in France (and had a French girlfriend) and everyone there was always so nice to me. Heck, I even have close French relatives.

    But in sports, some (or many) French sports fans don't like and never liked to see Spaniards winning the big French events, nor at Tour neither at Roland Garros. Always has been like this. Nothing to do with style or personality, it's just because they're Spaniards.

    By pure coincidence I was in Paris when Contador won his previous Tour de France and went to the Champs Elisees to take a look to the trophy ceremony, and I could tell the French fans didn't love Contador at all. Don't tell me Contador has "aggressive antics" or "ugly game".

    But, again, this is a SPORTS matter. I love going to France and French people is always very helpful to me when they realize I'm a Spaniard and not very good with French.
     
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  33. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Don't nitpick. You know what I mean. Soderling didn't get support like this in his own country,just as McEnroe said. Most of the people there wanted Nadal to lose. I'm sure some of them liked Soderling when they saw how well he played but most just wanted Nadal out,regardless of who did it. If Soderling was indeed the crowd favourite he would have been cheered on in the next matches but he wasn't,at least not like in the Nadal match.

    As I have said the lovable underdog theory is crap and that was shown in the final. Soderling was a huge underdog against Federer,who made the previous 3 finals here and he was something like 0-10 against Fed,so he could have used all the support he could get. But in the final,from the first point,everyone cheered for Fed. They cheered when Fed made winners and when Soderling made errors because they wanted Fed to win. So Soderling wasn't that loved in France or they would have supported him till the end. Soderling just got the same love that any other player would have got if he had taken out Nadal at the French,because the parisians don't like Nadal.

    @Dilletante,thanks for a balanced point of view,from someone who actually knows the relationship between the French and the Spanish.
     
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  34. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    oh no i certainly won't... because i don't think so, and also because i don't know a lot about pro cycling ! ;)
    [​IMG]
    close to, maybe... ;)
     
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  35. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    There is an underlying thread or two in Mac's comments on the NY crowd and Rafa. John is acting with a lot of pain in his heart. And a lot of empathy towards Raf.

    1] Mac identifies with Rafa. Mac chooses not to see the behavior he himself is most known for. He chooses to see the similarities with Raf: both are lefties, lots of intensity, dethroning the reigning champion at Wimbledon, bringing tennis to a less elite demographic...they do have a lot in common.
    2] Though Mac ws loved in NY, he feels jealous of the support they gave Jimmy. Even Lendl got some support, especially in the 85 final. JOhn hates nothing more than that thought. Worse still, I was at the Mac vs Chang match. I think it was 1991. Seriously, the NY crowd was for Chang even though John was the underdog....and the aging hometown hero. It was a great match, featuring contrasting styles and personalities. Some flashes of vintage Mac. Chang played incredible tennis. I'd be curious to see the number of passing shot winners and topspin lob winners that rained off Chang's racquet that night. I'm guessing triple digits! I definitely remember driving home thinking it was odd that more than half of the crowd was for Chang that night.
     
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  36. RFRF

    RFRF Semi-Pro

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    yeh thats true.
     
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  37. meltphace 6

    meltphace 6 Rookie

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    Wrong, it's Söderling, not Soderling.
     
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  38. Rhinosaur

    Rhinosaur Rookie

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    Soderling's a jerk, so it's natural the French would gravitate towards him.
     
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  39. meltphace 6

    meltphace 6 Rookie

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    Wrong, you're a jerk.
     
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  40. rocket

    rocket Hall of Fame

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    That "stupid" accent is the most copied in the world, Mr uNIVERSE mAN. ;)
     
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  41. rafan

    rafan Hall of Fame

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    I cannot take on board this total lack of affection from the French for Nadal. For a start, his looks must have stirred the blood of many a young French girl(and not so young at that). His game may not be that of a ballerina but his incredible self control and demeanour on court puts him in a class ( and I mean 'class' )of his own. Nadal has already set an example to the young by showing how you can be successful, rich and still be true to yourself. It is impossible to get a crowd just to support one player. There will also be the people who attend just to stir things up for the sake of it. No I cannot believe that the majority of the French were anti - Nadal. It is just that some people can shout that bit louder!
     
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  42. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    I go with Johnny on this one. I think cheering against Nadal in that certain occasion was not appropriate.
     
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  43. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    too bad nadaltards can't even comprehend why some ppl dislike nadal
     
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  44. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Too bad some people can't understand why so many people like/respect Nadal worldwide. Only in Paris do they pull this crap. He got booed in 2005 when the translator mistranslated from Spanish to French(in the trophy ceremony),got booed in 2008 when he retired in paris masters and got zero support from them in 2009.
     
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  45. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Too bad some people can't understand why so many people like/respect Nadal worldwide. Only in Paris do they pull this crap. He got booed in 2005 when the translator mistranslated from Spanish to French(in the trophy ceremony),got booed in 2008 when he retired in paris masters and got zero support from them in 2009.

    But to be fair,he is not the only champion who has had problems with the fickle parisian crowds.
     
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  46. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    many people who like nadal like fed. this is not the case with the french at all. many like nadal because of his fighting qualities. but don't expect nadal to get any more popular anytime soon because coming back from an injury leads to a lot of support.

    i wouldn't say the paris crowd is fickle. they don't change allegiances that much. if you are liked, then you are liked. roddick has always seem to be liked by the parisians for example
     
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  47. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    So will Nadal get more support or not:)?
    Because in the first bolded part you say we probably won't and in the second you say having a injury leads to a lot of support.
     
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  48. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    the first part i mean by people who don't like nadal no matter what the circumstances like the french aren't going to start supporting him. on the other hand, more general fans who don't follow tennis closely as supposedly the french do might support nadal more now.
     
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  49. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Yeah but here's the thing,when they boo you in other venues,regardless of who you are,they do it for a good reason. Djokovic got booed in USO because of his comments against Roddick. The NY'ers have forgiven him since. Players get booed elsewhere when the crowd feels like they are cheating,like taking too many timeouts,cheating on ball marks and so on.

    In RG for example they boo you for checking freaking ball marks. The one surface where you can see for yourself where he ball went and the parisians seem to have a problem with that. They even booed former crowd darling justine henin when she went to check a ball mark. The thing is,in any other big venue,they crowd won't be against you unless you are playing a local player or you have done something to offend them. In Paris they decide that they don't like you and that's it. You simply cannot make amends with these people unlike with crowds elsewhere.

    Here is a nice impartial article on the fickle paris crowd:

    http://www.gototennisblog.com/2009/06/01/french-open-rafael-nadal-victim-to-famous-french-syndrome/
     
    #49
  50. bolo

    bolo G.O.A.T.

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