John Newcombe

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by pc1, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Other than beating non great Bungert and Graebner at 67 W and FH and non great Parun at 73 AO look at whom he beat in other major finals
    Rosewall at 70 W - and also at 71 W sf and 73 Us sf-
    Smith at 71 W and 73 DC
    Kodes at 73 US
    Borg at 74 WCT
    Connors at 75 AO
    I forgot adding he lost to Stolle at the 66 US final - not a shamwful lose - and surprisingly, lost to Edmondson in his last major final, 76 AO
    His prime, thus, goes from 66 to 76
     
  2. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    He also beat Connors in the US Open quarters of 1973. I think it was the quarters. Connors would win his first majors a few months later.
     
  3. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, 6-4, 6-4, 7-6 was score
    He and friend Roche had a great rivalry too
    Roche won their Wimbledon 68 semi and their 69 USO semi
    Newk winning their 69 W sf and 75 AO semi
    Pittt he and Nastase never faced at a major, although Ilie won their Masters clash in 73
    Not sure if they also played in 74 Masters, think were in separate groups
     
  4. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I must correct you in a few points.

    The score was 6-4,7-6,7-6.

    Roche did not beat Newcombe at the 1968 Wimbledon.

    Nastase beat Newcombe also in the 1974 Masters, SF, 6-3,7-6,6-2
     
  5. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    I was at the Connors/Newcombe US Open match in 1973 and it was incredibly close. The two tiebreaks went to 4 points apiece with double set points for both. So in the third set it was simultaneous set point for Connors and match point for Newcombe. Newcombe won the tiebreaks by 5-4. Very high quality match if memory serves. I think Newcombe served something like 15 aces but I'm not sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  6. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Thanks
    So Newk leads Roche HtH
     
  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    It was Ashe who beat Newcombe at 1968 Wimbledon, in the Round of 16.
     
  8. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Ashe and Newcombe had a lot of excellent matches.
    1968 Wimbledon GBR Grass 16 ASHE 4-6 4-6 6-4 6-1 3-6
    1969 Monte Carlo MON Clay QF NEWCOMBE 8-6 6-3
    1970 U.S. Open USA Grass QF NEWCOMBE 6-1 7-6 5-7 7-6
    1971 WCT Dallas USA FR NEWCOMBE 7-6 6-4
    1971 WCT Chicago USA FR NEWCOMBE 4-6 7-6 6-2 6-3
    1974 U.S. Open USA Grass QF NEWCOMBE 4-6 6-3 3-6 7-6 6-4
    1974 Tucson USA FR NEWCOMBE 6-3 7-6
    1976 Palm Springs USA Hard QF ASHE 6-7 6-4 4-6
    1976 WCT Challenge Cup USA ASHE 6-3 2-6 3-6 5-7

    Ashe writes about the 1974 match in Tucson. Ashe apparently won the first 16 points of the second set in one of his hot streaks. Ashe came down to earth and Newcombe won the match in a tiebreaker.

    The 1974 US Open match was for some silly reason put in the Grandstand. People were hanging by the railings to see the match. Ashe led two sets to one and it went to a fourth set tiebreak which Newcombe won five points to none. Newcombe won the match in five sets and later lost to Rosewall I think in four sets.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  9. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    That's correct. This was when Newcombe was very eager to get to Connors. Connors was dominating the Riordan tour and had won Wimbledon, while Newcombe had been the best on the tougher WCT Tour but Connors was stealing his thunder big-time. It happened again at that 1974 US Open, Newcombe losing to Rosewall while Connors thrashed Rosewall out of sight.
     
  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    So, Ashe did beat Newcombe on a fifth set at the AELTC... great match¡¡
     
  11. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Also, Emerson at 1970 Wimbledon, at 11-9 in the fifth set, Gimeno in straight sets in 1970 Wimbledon semifinal.
    Connors in 1973 US quarterfinal.
     
  12. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    In that 73 Masters match between Newk and Nasty, Newk was playing with a knee injury, and it was still close.
    In 73 Masters, Newk was set to meet Nasty in the final, but injured his knee again while finishing up on Okker, and defaulted (although he could have won the match and then defaulted).
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  13. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    ........................
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  14. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    I watched the 1974 Tuscon match on television, with Orson Welles providing color commentary, and describing Newk as a "bulldog", who hangs on despite being tossed around.

    There was also a televised tournament broadcast in summer 1971 which Newk won, beating Ashe in the final.
     
  15. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    ^^ in his book Ashe mentioned a big & deciding five set match he lost to Newk at the prestigious WCT WORLD CUP played eavery year between USA and Australia at Hartford
    It was like a gentlemen duel that both teams took very seriously
    What made that particular match so important?
     
  16. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    I don't remember watching that tournament on television. It is strange to think of Orson Welles doing the color commentary. But then again they also had the comedian Dennis Miller doing color commentary for Monday Night football so you never know.

    In those days you generally thought of Bud Collins and Donald Dell as the regular tennis team.
     
  17. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    I believe that the 1974 event was billed as the ATP Championship, and both Kramer and Orson Welles made appearances.

    In the 1971 event, it was actually called the CBS Tournament, and ran for a number of years.
    I remember that Richey beat Alexander in one of the finals.
     
  18. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Didn't Ashe beat Newcombe in one of the amateur Australians semis in 1966 or 1967?
     
  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Similar to the former year´s Masters when Tom Gorman had already beaten Smith but retired at match point to allow the public a final.
     
  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    yes, good wins.he missed Laver, though.
     
  21. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes, in 1967. Ashe won 12-10, 20-22, 6-3, 6-2. Newcombe lost to Emerson in the 1966 Australian Championships semi finals.
     
  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Did Edmondson also beat Rosewall at 76 AO?
     
  23. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes, in the semi finals. Edmondson won 6-1, 2-6, 6-2, 6-4.
     
  24. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Thanks.

    I remember Eddo also defeating Gerulaitis in 4 sets at the 82 W QF, which is probably another milestone in his career.
     
  25. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Mustard, Yes, and Rosewall got his revenge a year later at the AO when he beat (at 42!) Edmondson in the QFs 6-4,7-6,4-6,6-4. Edmondson made a fatal mistake: he often aimed to Rosewall's backhand...
     
  26. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Not a bad effort for a 42 yrs old pro, and what a close score.Rosewall´s fighting spirit is amazing and is probbaly one of the most underrated aspects sof his game.

    In fact, it may well be his best weapon.
     
  27. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, "Not a bad effort"- the understatement of the year...

    Yes, Rosewall's fighting spirit... He had so many weapons, similary to Laver, but I get in danger here if I praise them because.....
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  28. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I didn´t belittle him, since I pointed out his fighting spirit, which you never did...
     
  29. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, You are right. I had forgotten to mention it.Probably just forgotten. I think I focussed more on his results and records.
     
  30. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Because of his tecnically perfect storkes, the fitness and fighting spirit of Rosewall is seldom mentioned here.Well, IMo, those were major factors during his long and succesful career.

    Not even Laver wanted to get in a long match against him; and we saw what happened in the 1974 W and US championships, when recent world´s nº 1 like Newk or Stan played the old Rosewall over 5 sets...

    I rememeber a great sentence from Connors.He was very criticized for humilliating Rosewall in both Wimbledon and US Open finals.He just answered: " I have seen people pitty Rosewall and see him win in the fifth set".Not even mighty Jimbo wanted a long match...
     
  31. Costagirl

    Costagirl Banned

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    hey thanks for posting! I had no idea of John Newcombe's entrepreneur enterprises were so accomplished. He's a bit older than me but I will tell you I have a lot of respect for his camps here in the states. I did not know of his accomplishments and clearly because he is underrated. Are there any books dedicated to him? If he was Ashe's idol...that is really saying something!!!!
     
  32. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I agree. Rosewall beat strong Vic Seixas in the Wimbledon SF after trailing 2:5 in the fifth set 7-5. The W. crowd roared for their darling, Rosewall, so much that Vic held close his ear in anger...

    Rosewall beat Newcombe in four sets at W. 1974.
     
  33. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Ashe was one year older, so no idol but one of Arthur´s classic opponents, both belonged to the same generation and turned pro at the end of the 60´s.

    He was very succesful in marketing his image and also settling up those ranchs in Texas.

    A very particular character.
     
  34. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Good one.

    As for his 1974 win over Newcombe, it must have felt great for Rosewall since Newcombe defeated him in the 1970 Final and trashed him in their 1971 semi.Don´t you think that Newcombe must have thought " oh¡ let´s little Kenny win at the end of his career a title here" or something like that? Newk was known for his inmense generousity...
     

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