Johnny Mac : the big four should fear Isner

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by VOLLEY KING, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    SAN JOSE, CALIF. — He called his 4-6, 6-3, 7-6(4), 6-2 Davis Cup upset of Roger Federer the biggest win of his life.  And for good reason.  After all, John Isner had just nullified the 16-time Slam champ on enemy turf, taking down the Swiss master on the clay of Fribourg, giving his American teammates some unexpected momentum en route to a 5-0 World Group shocker.
    On Monday night at the SAP Open, where John McEnroe appeared in an exo showdown with Gael Monfils, Jack Sock and reigning NCAA champion Steve Johnson, the Hall of Famer called Isner’s achievement well deserved.
    “Isner is a guy who, when the top four look at a draw, they go, ‘Where’s Isner? We don’t want any part of him.’  They believe they’ll beat him, but they’d prefer someone else to do it,” said McEnroe, who teamed with the 19-year-old Sock to top Monfils/Johnson 6-4, 6-4.
    Does Isner — in this golden age of Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray — have the stuff to compete for a Slam title?
    “I think so.  I really do,” said McEnroe, just days away from his 53rd birthday.  “I believe he can get to a semi or a final, given the right set of circumstances.  The problem with John is that he makes it a little more difficult for himself because he sort of wants to show that he can hit groundstrokes with these guys.  I think he’d better off playing more like Pete Sampras, where he would unnerve these guys, not give them rhythm, drive these people absolutely bananas.  Maybe he’ll do that.”
    “He’s a great kid,” McEnroe continued.  “He’s already at No. 14.  I always thought he could get to the top 10.  I don’t know if he can win something, but believe me, he’s THE most dangerous guy out there on the tour.  I love the fact that he went and did what he did [in Switzerland] because he deserves it.  And it says something: maybe someone can go to college and succeed.”
     
    #1
  2. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,058
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    I like Isner and wish him well, but I can only half agree with Mac on this one. I agree that Isner is dangerous and can give the top guys trouble. But, he is too reliant on his serve, so whereas on a good day he can beat anyone, to win a slam he has to be on for 7 matches in a row. If he has a bad (for him) serving day anywhere there, he does not have enough game in other areas to make up for it. So I just don't see him competing for a slam.
     
    #2
  3. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,811
    Interesting, McEnroe just implied Sampras' ground game sucks.
     
    #3
  4. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,496
    he's not THE most dangerous guy on tour, what the hell has Mac been smoking? :lol:

    But he did do well to beat Federer on clay and take Nadal to 5 sets.
     
    #4
  5. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,892
    Location:
    Northern MO
    Then who is the most dangerous? I qualify dangerous as someone who can rise to an occasion on a big stage, with something that no other player would want to play against. Isner fits both of these qualifiers to a tee, having the mentality to compete on a big stage and having a serve almost equivalent to Karlovic.
     
    #5
  6. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,604
    Location:
    South
    JMc Baloney again.

    Isner has the serve but not the game or the head.

    He can threat the top 4 as mach is Ivo does.
     
    #6
  7. Towerofpower205

    Towerofpower205 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    181
    He also went 4 or 5 with djok in David cup on clay
     
    #7
  8. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,046
    Location:
    Not Fantasy Land
    Isner can win, whereas Ivo can't. He has the potential to upset them, therefore he's dangerous. I don't think he's the most dangerous out there, but nobody has to enjoy seeing him in their draw.
     
    #8
  9. devila

    devila Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,749
    blow me down. gugg gugg mc ate his spinach.
    isner serve nullifies federer's predictable bh.

    oh mirka oyl.

    yeah, right. his prediction that djokovic never would be dominant or beautiful to watch as his lover federina came true too. next thing, he'll say isner will be a smarter player than the other usa players.
     
    #9
  10. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,496
    well you have to first decide if you mean ALL of the players, in which case of course Djokovic is most dangerous at the moment. If you mean which player can upset the big players, and don't count the world number one, then I look at most dangerous as being someone who will actually score wins over the big guys. Isner beat Federer once, never beat Nadal or Djokovic (though he took them both to 5 sets on clay, so added to the clay win over Federer, he actually is pretty dangerous on the dirt) and never beaten Murray.

    I'd probably say Tsonga is more dangerous cos not only has he beaten alltop 4 players, he's done it in slams too.
     
    #10
  11. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,324
    Location:
    Wales
    He's probably far more dangerous to the top guys as a lower seeded player who can meet them in the first or second round of a slam rather, rather than a higher ranked opponent who maybe one day won't be able to meet any of them until the 4th round or the quarters.

    I don't think Nadal would have been taken to 5 sets by Isner if that match had happened in round 4 for instance, he would have gained some momentum by then.
     
    #11
  12. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,416
    Most days, such as today for example, Isner isn't even a top 50 player other than his serve. Time after time I see him netting/hitting long absolute gimmies in a manner befitting a club level player.

    If things click, I agree, he's a big danger to anyone but the game plan against him basically is: hit the ball more than 4 steps from where he is. As much as he's improved his movement he depends heavily on opponents not moving him about much.
     
    #12
  13. The Wreck

    The Wreck Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    767
    I think the statement was meant to be, outside of the rest of the top 8 or so players (Ferrer, Tsonga, Berdych, Del Po), Isner is one of the last people any of the top 4 want to see in their section of the draw.
     
    #13
  14. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    I just watched the FO : Isner vs. Nadal....OMG!!!!

    Isner took Nadal to 5 sets at the FO and was up 2 sets to 1!

    Nadal barely won:

    6-4, 6-7,6-7,6-2,6-4 .....

    Add that to his win over Federer ........and....

    HE MAY BE THE ONLY SERVE AND VOLLEYER ON THE ATP!!.....I now love this guy!

    Watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ypvZEXEiJI&feature=youtube_gdata_player



    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2012
    #14
  15. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,120
    Isner needs to learn how to volley. Take example from Karlovic who is even taller but volleys way way better.
     
    #15
  16. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    Isner just beat Federer and warwinka before that
     
    #16
  17. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,218
    i hate serve dependent guyz. (Sampras was different)
    they're usually tall and have no game.
    Raonic might prove himself better.
    Isner might improve but he's boring.
     
    #17
  18. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    Serve and volley.....I find it exciting
     
    #18
  19. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,942
    Okay. Isner is not a serve and volleyer. There are several examples of real serve and volleyers on the ATP tour, such as Ivo Karlovic and Michael Llodra, and guys that serve and volley much of the time: Ivan Dodig, Florian Mayer.
     
    #19
  20. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    Why isn't Isner a real serve and volleyer? He serves and then volleys.....am I dreaming?

    Today's match against joker should be really interesting.....

    Greatest serve on ATP vs greatest return on the ATP .
     
    #20
  21. interjim

    interjim Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Mac doesn't imply things. He says what's on his mind.
     
    #21
  22. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    Awesome statement!! Bravo.
     
    #22
  23. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,811
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Anyway, just getting in IW in the SF is a great thing for him. Dangerous, yes.
     
    #23
  24. jgrushing

    jgrushing Rookie

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    251

    Isner only serves and volleys occasionally; his normal pattern is a serve and forehand. I think that's what he's seeking most of the time. I watched John since his college days at UGA.

    He's certainly not a SV player in the mold of Edberg, Rafter, McEnroe, etc. I agree that he works toward shortening points but serve/put away forehand is his MO.
     
    #24
  25. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    I'm sort of discovering him now ..... But every YouTube video ive seen him on he is at the net ..... Do you have any video substantiating your claim?
     
    #25
  26. Wilander Fan

    Wilander Fan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,555
    I would say Isner has a very similar game to Raonic.
     
    #26
  27. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,926
    Big serve and big forehand ticks two boxes for me but his movement is still an issue.
    That win over Federer on clay was a shock and he's capable of more upsets like that but I just don't see him winning against the elite regularly enough.
     
    #27
  28. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    I think we are. Both right. He is a mix of both


    From wikipedia:

    Isner has a powerful serve, thanks in part to his 6-ft, 9-in (206cm) height he get a good angle, only Ivo Karlovic is taller among the current players.[38] Commentators[who?] have also praised his composure; in five consecutive third-set tiebreaker wins in Washington, he delivered huge serves when it mattered most.[39] Isner also has a very powerful forehand as well. On serve, Isner often goes for one-two points, a big serve followed up by a big forehand. He is also known to back up his serves with approaches to the net, though he does not strictly serve-and-volley. Isner's movement around the court is hampered by his body, and he is hurt by players who move him around the court. Isner's fitness has improved considerably over the years, and he displayed this during his win in the longest tennis match ever at Wimbledon against Nicolas Mahut.
     
    #28
  29. cellofaan

    cellofaan Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    469
    He does often back his serve up by coming to the net, but from what I have seen, he usually doesn't do it by playing serve volly, but follows his second shot (often the forehand) to the net.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wzlZnlpm7o
     
    #29
  30. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    6,103
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    Johnny Mac "All aboard!!!!"
    [​IMG]
     
    #30
  31. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    #31
  32. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,892
    Location:
    Northern MO
    That's his strategy against one player, and a smart one on that. I mean, Isner's forehand is good, but it's not better than Nadal's groundies overall, so how do you take out a guy with amazing groundstrokes who likes to stay 10 feet back (on clay)? Take the angles away and make him come up.

    Overall, Isner is NOT a S&Ver (coming from someone who dabbles in S&V), but I would consider him and all-courter (and the fact that you cited Wikipedia in a previous post does not help your legitimacy...).
     
    #32
  33. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    well ive shown a video...heres another....and an amazing one at that!!:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpM3UTu3nGo
     
    #33
  34. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,892
    Location:
    Northern MO
    Not really amazing for that level. Ball hit right at them, they're gonna get it back (not necessarily for a winner like he did, but still).

    You've been watching too many highlight reels. Try watching full matches. Then you'll see that he's not a S&Ver (he's great at mixing it up).
     
    #34
  35. decades

    decades Guest

    hilarious. the 5 star tennis analysts here say John Isner "only" has a serve. I guess forgetting that he beat Fed on clay over five sets and took Nadal to 5 at FO. Not bad for a guy who "only" has a serve. lol.
     
    #35
  36. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    did you notice the commentator say "yet another serve and volley"?
     
    #36
  37. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,892
    Location:
    Northern MO
    ...you do know that all-courters S&V right? Or are you that dense?
     
    #37
  38. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    His volleys aren't good enough to play that game. Especially on today's slow courts.
     
    #38
  39. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    it was good enough against Roger Federer on red clay and five tough sets against Nadal on red clay.....isner did better against Nadal than Fed.
     
    #39
  40. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    no need for the dense comment.

    Of course I know that...Im a serve and volleyer.

    Its a tough dostinction to make.

    For example was Pete Sampras a serve and volleyer or an all courter?
     
    #40
  41. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,875
    I think Isner is undeestimated on his BH and return. When he beat Fed, he ended the match with 3 return winners. I think he has realized that he can't just try to get the ball back in play.
     
    #41
  42. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,579
    Isner isn't an S&V player mate - he just isn't.

    I could post some vids of Murray doing S&V - but he isn't a S&V player either.
     
    #42
  43. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    He loses more points than he wins when the ball comes back from one of his serves.

    When you add them up though, it's like 40% of points won with his serve alone that leaves 60% of points on his serve: Well he loses 40% when the ball comes back, but still wins 20% of those rallies and 20% plus the 40% of serves is 60% and gets him over the line. All he needs is one mini break in the tie break and he wins the set.

    Make no mistake though, he is nowhere near being a competent volleyer.
     
    #43
  44. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    no need for the dense comment.

    Of course I know that...Im a serve and volleyer.

    Its a tough dostinction to make.

    For example was Pete Sampras a serve and volleyer or an all courter?

    ..
     
    #44
  45. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,892
    Location:
    Northern MO
    It doesn't matter what Pete was. It doesn't back-up your assertion that a commentator saying "yet another serve and volley" makes a player a S&Ver since S&Vers, all-courters, heck, even counterpunchers and baseliners all S&V.
     
    #45
  46. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    I never said thats what makes him a serve and volleyer.....all im saying its a tough distinction to make.

    I used Pete Sampras as an example to illustrate just how hard it is to make the distiction.
     
    #46
  47. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    with a serve like that he doesnt need to be. he just has to be average.
     
    #47
  48. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,579
    Nope - because when he plays a top returner he struggles a bit - hence his 0-7 record v Noel/Rafa/Murray.
     
    #48
  49. monfed

    monfed Guest

    On a given day he can potentially cause an upset. It's another thing that he doesn't.
     
    #49
  50. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,013
    We shall see tonight!
     
    #50

Share This Page