Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by xtennisloverx, Jan 24, 2009.
why is there only one american in boys' singles (harry fowler)?
it costs a bundle to travel to the land down under and if you lose in the first round which is possible, makes it very unpleasant. I think you go there if you have a legitimate chance to win.
yea, why does the ITF do that crap?! one & out is so stupid. It really makes tennis a rich person's sport. There's no sense of player development in that method.
that's the ITF,they treat it like the pro level tournament ... if you cannot win,you go home... and the lone American is going home now ,because he lost 1st round... blame USTA for not footing up the bill to send more players.. look at the draw. on the girls side,there's 3 or 4 USA girls ...this is the main reason why USA doesn't have the players to compete with the rest of the world on the big stage.. the Jr. players aren't getting enough world class experience and exposure to keep them continuing when they try to make pros.. small nations like Taiwan,Thailand,Sweden,India,ect. are sending a handful of players to every Jr.Grand Slam.. but USA only summit 2 or more in the US open ... how can smaller nations afford to do this and USA cannot?
Point well made. It is a pity that US did not send Denis Kudla, who would have been seeded 3, Chase Buchanan and couple of others to participate in AO. I am certain that the reason those kids did not go is because USTA did not make the funds available and would be too expensive of a trip for those kids to finance themselves.
no reasons why home schooled kids don't go to a Jr. grand slam,if it's a free ride... it's not like Christmas time or anything like that... USTA can spend 100s of thousands of $$$ on sending kids to a USTA Florida camp/school but can't send those same kids to get valuable match experience abroad ...
There is a separate thread on USTA sending kids to Teen Tennis and Les Petits As? Why those tournaments, instead of junior slams?
Buchanan and Domijan may have preferred to play the Florida Futures. Ryan Harrison is recovering from an injury. I really don't expect the top kids (except Kudla) to play many (if any) ITFs this year. I think they will focus almost exclusively on the pro circuit, at least until fall when some (Buchanan, Williams) may head off to college. Britton is already in college.
Kudla just played a string of big tournaments. Perhaps he didn't want to make the trip.
The USTA usually sends several top juniors over to Europe to play the big summer tournaments, so some will get an opportunity to play the other Grand Slams. Usually several make it to a couple of the major South American tournaments as well, along with the G1 and GA events in Mexico and Costa Rica (which Kudla, Ore, and Frank just attended, among others). Then of course they have an opportunity to play the big domestic tournaments like the U.S. Open, Orange Bowl, and Eddie Herr, plus the major national tournaments and a boatload of Futures. I agree that it would nice to have more players competing in Australia, but it's not like there is a shortage of opportunities to test themselves against quality competition.
Teen Tennis and Petits is 14 and under, therefore, those kids are not yet ready to compete in junior slams.
This is true but the point I think he was trying to make is why can the USTA send the smaller kids to France for Petits but not a few older kids to the Jr. Aussie Opens.
who are the oldest ones eligible? why not send 18 year olds instead of 16 year olds? (i.e. Frank)
If mine started ITFs this year, how do you think he would fare?
A friend of mine who follows junior tennis in Taiwan (Chinese Taipei, TPE) claims that Tsun-Hua Yang turned "pro" when he was 14 or 15, and played futures tournaments all around SE Asia. The tough competition there is what allowed him to be so good in the junior's game. (I can't verify those statements...and I don't know what amateur eligibility requirements are either in foreign countries).
I just looked at the junior Aussie draw, and there is another player from TPE that's seeded 8th. If you know how small Taiwan is, and how many people actually play tennis there...it's sad how we are doing in the USA...
isn't india pretty big........
but at the junior us open there were tons of american juniors for both men and wome n
I don't know who your son is.
The oldest players eligible for ITF events like the Australian Open are players born in 1991, and I doubt that the best players from that group even wanted to go. One, Devin Britton, is in college. Another, Rhyne Williams, has played one ITF event in the last year (the U.S. Open). Another, Alex Domijan, did not even play very many ITFs last year and probably wants to play Futures like most top 17-year-olds do. The same probably goes for Buchanan. Next on the list would be guys like Tennys Sandgren, Matthew Kandath, and James Seal. They have have been interested, although Sandgren is playing Futures as well.
If we were going to send more players, I think 16-year-olds like Kudla, King, Van Overbeek, Cox, and Ore would have been the ones to go.
I wouldn't say that U.S. tennis is sad compared to Taiwan. They have one player in the ATP top 100, Yen-Hsun Lu, who's ranked #61. Their next highest ranked player is #319. The U.S. has eight top 100 players, including five ranked ahead of their highest ranked player. The U.S. has 25 players ranked ahead of Taiwan's second highest ranked player. The U.S. has 25 juniors ranked inside the ITF top 200. Taiwan has four, though three are top 30. (The U.S. has four in the top 30 as well, not including Ryan Harrison and Rhyne Williams, who didn't play a lot of ITFs last year.) There is an enormous difference in population between the two countries, but I still wouldn't call U.S. tennis sad in comparison, especially when comparing what really matters, pro rankings. One also has to take into accont that tennis is far down the list of the most popular American sports. Where does tennis rank in Taiwan? That could offset part of the population disparity (though not a large portion of it, obviously).
we lived in Taiwan years ago & actually my son played tennis at the elite American Club. From what I saw, Taiwan has a minimum 50 hr/work-week. They have zero time for extracurricular activities like tennis. Note that Taiwan does not produce many athletes for the Olympics. They work & go to school & that's about it. Any student there would be years more advanced than our students.
I didn't see any public courts in Taiwan. Real estate is too precious on the island.
and I can't e-mail you an answer either as to who he is, unless you change your profile. Nonetheless, I know the players you listed & we'll think about it.
That 50 hour/week work schedule doesn't apply to 16 and 17-year-olds, does it? I imagine their top juniors devote a lot of time to tennis, just like those from other countries.
Here is what a child's life is like in Taiwan:
First, all children wear the school uniform. Besides obvious reasons, the less obvious reason is because if you're seen commiting something wrong, they know which school you belong to.
Second, the child is issued a certain number of uniforms at the beginning of each school year. There's a pocket in the front. On the pocket is embroidered numbers. The first sequence of numbers are in black and a reasonable size. They represent your school district, your school, your classroom & lastly the number of students in your classroom last year. So it could look like this: 4379235. Thus last year's classroom had 35 students. Next comes two RED numbers and they are a lot larger. These two numbers are your RANK out of those 35. So let's say your school-issued, mandatory uniform has red numbers of 33. You are toast! Don't even think about stopping for ice cream after school or going out for lunch. Vendors will not sell to you. Your community will see your Red 33 and not-so-nicely suggest you need to eat less ice cream & study more.
So, no, kids in Taiwan have no life. I think the Chineese alphabet has 600 characters. Those kids study or attend school at least 50 hours per week as well. That's the society where kids commit suicide if they don't pass their college entrance academic exam. They have elementary school kids commiting suicide if they don't pass. It's huge pressure!
I assume a few talented kids are carefully offered opportunities to do athletics, but they must still maintain academics
I am pretty sure Rhyne Williams has turned pro, about a month ago. Can you go to a junior slam after you turn pro?
Did he really? That would surprise me since he said at a Challenger in November that he intended to go to college. Where did you hear that he turned pro?
Here's the relevant part of the article:
Williams lost in the first round to Slovenia's Luka Gregorc 7-6 (2), 6-3 and afterward announced his decision to play college tennis next fall.
"Yep, as of now, unless I win five of these in a row," said Williams. He said his top five schools are Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Duke, Illinois and Texas A&M.
To answer your question, pros can play junior slams and any other ITF event as long as they meet the age eligibility requirement. Ryan and Christian Harrison, for example, turrned pro about a year ago. Donald Young turned pro around the age of 14 and competed in juniors.
There is a pretty simple formula for deciding what tournaments to go to, for most junior players: If you are dominating at one level of tournaments, move up to the next level. Once there, even play a few at the level above that just to see what it is like and what you need to work on.
For most juniors, there are national tournaments, men's opens, Futures tourneys, and occasional ITF events in the states, all of which are very challenging and not easy to dominate. Many of these tournaments are pretty low profile compared to the junior Australian Open, but they provide great challenges and experience for a lot less money than going to Australia.
Satisfying "American tennis fans" by going to Australia, rather than to the qualifying rounds of a Futures event close to home, is not a priority. It is sad, but true, that the wishes of all of us on a tennis message board are not the determining factor in their schedule.
Rhyne Williams dropped out of all the college recruiting stories precipitously during the November signing period. At tennisrecruiting.net, he suddenly became unranked. That usually either means (1) he turned pro, or (2) they decided he was not an American junior but was actually from some other country. #2 seems like a slim possibility, so I figured #1 was it.
Interesting. I wonder if the suicide rate among children (say 18 and younger) is higher than it is in the U.S. The commitment to academic excellence is admirable, but based on how you've described it, it sounds like they take it to the extreme. How did you like it there?
I edited my previous post to include the article in which he was quoted as saying that he planned to go to college. It's from November 17th. But you're right, it is odd that tennisrecruiting.net removed him from their rankings. He's definitely an American, so that's not the reason.
Maybe he suddenly changed his mind.
He or his parent can simply ask to have it deleted & TRN will do so. Perhaps it took a lot of speculation & gossip off his plate. Perhaps they just didn't want to deal with all the comparisons & stats. I think it's pretty savvy actually. I've noticed many of the top kids don't even list which colleges they are considering & have very few details on their profiles.
they do take it to extremes, but in my opinion, the orientals & Indians are several years ahead of our kids, academically. Which ones do you think will end up in management right away?
How did I like Taiwan? Hmm. We nearly starved to death. I didn't know how to cook seafood, a beef roast was about $30 and tasted like it was 50 years old. I loved the night flea market & public transportation. I hated driving. Lots of snakes. Pretty beach. Best part was the Spanish fort from, I don't know, maybe 1600s. I liked it. I liked every place I've been on the planet except Bali -- armpit of the planet. Favorite place = Penang, Malaysia
It's not just the enormous population difference. There are, practically speaking, little to no recreational tennis opportunities (real estate is expensive, and no money/interest to maintained public courts. Extremely humid & hot summers, rainy winter season). As far as I know, there aren't any junior tournaments at the grassroots level (novice, challengers, opens, etc)...
Basically, in a little island country where tennis is not readily available to the general public, and virtually no one plays the sport (as a % of the population), and Taiwanese aren't usually built like Croatians....they are able to (so far) consistently produce a few top juniors in the world...and a top 50 ranked pro.
It points to a fairly efficient high performance junior development program. I'm going to try to dig out more info on how they do it...
Doesn't matter how big...you don't think about sports when there are other more important issues to deal with in life...
Understand why when you have to pay, you pick the best value for your $. The question that's been asked is why don't USTA foot the bill for the top juniors to play in the junior slams? Other (smaller) countries are doing it more than the USA...thus the "Taiwan" discussion we're having.
Best part of Taiwan is a Spanish fort??? I think someone is biased... It's a Portugese fort, if I remember it correctly.
All SE Asian countries (Taiwan, Korea, Japan...don't know the rest) have similar education policies, and similarly high suicide rates. It's not the best place for creativity, or sports...
It looks like Rhyne Williams is planning to go to college, though he says he's not sure if he will start in the fall or next January.
No **** sherlock.
I love this reply... I haven't heard that in a while.. my brother used to always say that... and also,"so,what does that have to do with the price of fish in China?"
Good to see Laura Robson doing so well. She's the future of british womens tennis, and a future top 10 player( you heard it here first)
Shocked to see that Laura Robson lost to Ksenia Pervak 3-6, 1-6. I never expected that. Did anyone see or hear the match?
Yeah I did. She's still immature but thats expected as she's only 15. Swore and cursed alot, said the F word a bit (out loud). Love her accent though. She'll definately be top 10 material though, give her 3 years and she'll be top 10 I reckon. She's got the game, she seemed to struggle with her consistency today, her opponent just kept in points all the time and made her play one more shot and she got fustrated far too easily. Her movement is ok, nothing special but as she gets older she'll be better in that department. I thought she'd be very little and thin but it looks like she's bulked up alot in the past year since her junior Winbledon win. She's probably grown quite a bit as well, she'll be pretty big once she's 18, I think she's still got some growing to go.
I appreciate your description. I'm surprised to hear that the English Rose was swearing like a sailor at such a young age! Fascinating the different mental levels just like the physical.
I am not really shocked. I saw her at Eddie Herr, where she lost early. She is still young, just turned 15 and is already having a great run. She won Wimbledon, finals of AO.
Next two years or three and we will see her making inroads on WTA.
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