Just a GUT-FEELING !!

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Centerforward71, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    After trying three brands of gut (Performaxx, Pacific TG, and Mamba) I cannot find anything that compares to the performance of my Poly at low tension 35 +/- ?

    All the setups were Gut Main poly cross, except one. Strung at 54/50 50/46, 48/44 and all seem stiff as HELLL. The lower one was a bit softer but then control was an issue. Where am I going wrong. The crosses were Signum PPP, IONTEC, WC Silverstring. All seem comparable so I dont feel like the crosses mattered if they were swapped. The mamba although was the worst looking of the three actually played the softest and most elastic and that was done at 52/48. Pac TG and Performaxx even at 48/44 was ALOTTT stiffer than my Genesis Twisted Razor full bed poly at 38LB and way underperformed. I can play with them but why would I and pay the higher price. I played gut last about 10 years ago and dont remember it being this stiff or is it just that I got used to the Poly at low ? Even poly in those ranges I dont remember being that stiff. All the setups were average at best in all categories. Performaxx and Pacific looked great out of the bag and were very well made and very consistent, the mamba was very inconsistent in gauge and even took me to the fourth set to find one I could even get throught the grommets, Mamba though responded immediately to swap them no questions asked so thats fine with me. What i can say is that MAMBA played the closest and best to what I remember a gut string playing.

    I tried the mamba as a cross but NO WAY, too inconsistent in gauge and texture and made for TERRIBLE string snap back and bed uniformity.

    SHOULD I TRY GUT CROSS with Pac TG or Performaxx and a poly main and if so what poly and tension

    I am also thinking gut/poly much lower and much higher say 42/38 andd then another set perhaps higher say 60/56 ?

    WHERE AM I GOING WRONG or is this what I can expect from these guts ?

    Also is VS or wilson that much better and if I were to try those at what tension am I going to find that true gut performance.

    Im eager to hear responses because otherwise the gut experiment is done and over.
     
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  2. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    With your frame I'd go higher in tension and try different strings (I used that frame a couple of years ago).

    Perhaps Wilson Natural Gut 16g mains at 57 and Luxilon 4G 1.30 crosses at 53.

    Wilson Natural Gut is very soft and comfortable. 4G, in spite of the high stiffness value, is also very comfortable. 4G crosses also provide insane amounts of control.

    Recently I've been testing various crosses head to head with 4G. So far nothing compares in spite of 4G's slightly lower spin potential.
     
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  3. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    The one time I tried some cheap gut from PVAudio, I liked it better in the crosses with a poly main. Gut in the crosses is a waste unless you can afford it. A good multi will perform 95% as well as the gut in the crosses. I just did not dig the setup in reverse with the gut in the mains.
     
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  4. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    In a gut\poly combo, the final string bed is determined chiefly to the poly crosses. Since you string those crosses at 45lbs, in stead of 35 full poly, you should expect a dramatic increase in stiffness. This isn't a problem with the gut/poly combo. It's a problem if your expectations, since you arbitrary decided to string it about 10lbs tighter.

    On your next go run, string the poly at 34-37lbs, depending on what you want the strings to do for you. You'll get more power from the gut, but if you're the type that can't adjust your shots to accommodate, then string the poly tighter at 37lbs.

    Some people don't adjust their swing to accommodate for a new setup, so it's destined for doom.
     
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  5. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    Mount the rackets, cut out the crosses, and restring crosses only. Now choose a smarter tension.
     
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  6. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

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    If you are looking for a soft feeling in a gut, go for VS....I don't like it, too soft for me, but durability is really bad (10hours or less).
    Pacific Classic, on the other hand, is the right gut for me... its stiffness fits me well and lasts a long time (over 25 hours)
    Silverstring on the mains ( 48 ) and Pacific (52) on the crosses plays great in my 4D 100. I get way more control than the other way arround. (Gut/ poly)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
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  7. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Like I said I CAN PLAY WITH THEM but why would I when I get alot more from the low tension poly full bed.

    Reading these replies and thinking I may try my Poly main at my regular say 38 maybe even 40 and then cross with PAcific TG or Performaxx at 44-46. Thats got to be closer to whay I want and like and also perhaps add a little feel and softness perhaps ????

    How about full bed gut ? EVERYWHERE I read everyone says not worth it these days and much better to hybrid. I guess the pros would prove that as most do hybrid it.

    dont want to keep wasting the gut so trying to figure out a better path because what Ive used so far is VERY UNIMPRESSIVE.

    I do see most pros go with the GUT crosses, except Federer, yet others say here that the gut crosses are a waste ?

    More feedback please need to make a decision shortly before I put on machine.

    And again despite the Mambas poor manufacturing I thought it played the MOST GUT like of the three except there is no way to use as cross, its just too inconsistent in gauge and texture.
     
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  8. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    OK so cut the poly and what is that SMARTER TENSION ?
     
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  9. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    I was always a HIGH tension player ever since playing in high school menaing 60+ even with Poly I liked it, but after experementing all the way through 50s and 40s and 30s I fell In love with the 30s. The only way I could string at 58-60 + would be with the VS as from what I read here the guts I have will not hold up to that tension on the machine and less playing ?

    I AM NOTTTT a fan of Luxilon. Alu string play really well for about 2 hours and then I feel like I am chasing my tail the rest of the way as the string seems to change performance everytime out, meaning tension change. How is 4G any different that those ?
     
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  10. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Just try poly mains with gut crosses once. It is really nice.
     
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  11. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Another point is that gut actually becomes more elastic the closer you get to 60 pounds. Stringing gut in the 45-50 pound range will not unlock the magic, so to speak, of gut. The other issue, as already noted, is that your poly crosses are coming in a lot higher than you are used to, so you are dealing with a double-whammy of changes: gut too low and poly crosses higher than you are accustomed to.

    I'd stay stick with your low tension Genesis full job if that is what you are trying to emulate, as any tension with gut/poly or poly/gut is not going to feel or play the same as low tension poly.

    Low tension poly is a unique setup, and I have tried it as well as many gut/poly & poly/gut setups... the feel and spin of low tension poly (full poly under 40 lbs), results in a *very unique* feel & playability.
     
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  12. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    The main thing that I think really makes or breaks a setup is the *subjective feel* of a setup. That is why so many people argue over their favorite setup. Having experimented way too much with all kinds of hybrids and tensions and everything in between, I have found for me, that it really is all about finding a *stringbed feel* that blends with your playstyle. Finding the right setup so that you don't have to think or focus (i.e. be distracted) about your strings is what we are all looking for when we experiment and change our strings.

    Low tension poly is one of those very unique string feelings that people love or hate. But if you do love it and it fits your game, I wouldn't try gut anymore.
     
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  13. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

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    I desagree. I can't get over 25 hours of good hitting with a Multi. Maybe 7 or 8 hours, and by 10 or 12 hours I break them. (In a hybrid in the crosses) Pacific classic gives me over 25 hours of good playability and performance....
     
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  14. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    I already gave you that number range. I even told you how to decide which number in the range.

    Nothing wrong with poly/gut combo, and I do agree with the above, high tension gut with mid-low tension poly mains does kick ass. My last poly/gut was 50lbs poly mains, 64 lbs gut. Felt like a juiced up full poly setup. Of course, you like 35/lb poly, so I have no clue how tightly to string up your gut. 45 seems low. maybe 55-65. There's no need to worry about tension for the sake of arm problems for gut.
     
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  15. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I don't think I would get 25 hours from a gut cross.
     
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  16. KoaUka

    KoaUka Rookie

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    it really is
     
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  17. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Not sure the guts I have would sustain 60+ tensions I guess I'll try

    Not trying to emulate the feel necessarily but I do want to emulate the performance or improve it. I don't mind stiffer but not stiffer without the performance.

    It surely is unique and I agree on the love / hate.
     
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  18. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    25 hours that's nuts from anything. How the heck does one hit where 25 hours of play can provide a consistent feel from a string bed ?? The most I've gotten out of a setup was about 8.
     
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  19. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Could not agree more with the subjective feel view. I'm always going to experiment to find that better setup of that subj feel and performance.
     
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  20. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

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    My mistake, I meant 25 or even more hours from a gut as you just said. My point is that I can't get 7 or 8 hours of good hitting from a multi, maybe if I'm lucky....and then the performance of a multi drops significally and by 10 or 12 hours I break it. There is no way in my experience that I can get 95% of the performance of a gut using a multi after those 8 hours of hitting. The price difference is for a reason. In the long run, gut beats multi easly in terms of price/performance.
     
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  21. Bowtiesarecool

    Bowtiesarecool Rookie

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    There really is no way to improve on the performance (another one of those subjective ideals in your case. I'm assuming you mean spin potential while maintaining some ball pocketing.) of a poly. Unless, they're moving around on you fresh off the machine. If that's the case, the only way you will be able to emulate the performance (again, assuming you're referring to spin potential, and in your specific case of the feel of low tension poly) of low tension poly is to string relatively tighter poly mains with a soft cross at it's nominal tension range.

    If you like full poly at 35ish, try poly mains around 40-45 with gut crosses in the low to mid 50s.

    Another thing you may like to try is a good multi like RIP control or PPA in the 55-60lb range.
     
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  22. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Was gonna do poly 42 mains gut 48 crosses close to the above. And yesss u are right on what I'm looking for give or take.
     
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  23. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    To not waste the gut was thinking of salvaging a pretty new string by cutting it from mains to use as cross to try the above is it ok to reuse the gut ? Thoughts ?
     
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  24. leroy_sunset

    leroy_sunset Rookie

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    I think with gut, once it settles in, it maintains tension very well until it breaks. 25 hours is a long time, but who knows. For older guys that don't ever break strings, I've seen them go a year on full gut. They play until the fraying crosses get out of hand.
     
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  25. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Exactly. Old guy or young guy AKA guy whose game doesn't matter what string is on there.
     
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  26. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    It's tough to do but possible. Would require the racquet to be full clamped before any strings are cut, then remove them in the reverse direction it was strung.

    The gut may get kinked and notched throughout this process. If you string your own and are careful, it's possible, but also going to be a royal pain. I've heard of people doing it though.
     
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