Just Discovered New Forehand at 48!

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by vitas77remembered, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,078
    No, no, Limpin, Don Budge was just 'incorrect', you fool, 'incorect'!

    In fact, anyone who doesn anything Frank doesn't like requires 'correction'

    hmmm...
     
    #51
  2. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,063
    The Bill Tilden photo and one of the Don Budge photos does indeed show that the racket head could drop below the wrist, despite what we were told. That was indeed one teaching principle that was wrong (except maybe for full-continental forehands). Interestingly, one photo of Don Budge shows him as a junior using the western grip (before men's grass-court play forced him to change it, thereby establishing the principle that the western grip should not be taught).

    Another item of teaching that was wrong was the idea of stepping towards the net on the backhand. The top players actually pointed their front foot directly towards the sideline when hitting the backhand with power. (In this sense, you are right that the forehand and backhand were NOT symmetrical. The only way they were symmetrical was in the shape of the motion made by the racket head (when hitting flat or with top spin).

    It wasn't me who wrote all those books declaring the "shake hands" grip to be the correct forehand grip. I merely read them.
     
    #52
  3. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,071
    I think the important thing here is when were they written and in what context. The "shaking hands" context is still valid but certainly not when hitting a top spin FH groundstroke.
     
    #53
  4. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    Frank, you have referenced Budge using a Western grip as a junior on several occasions. I'm not sure where you got that from, or what photo you're talking about. But, according to Budge himself, as I recall, he noticed a lot of California cement court players using a Western grip (probably equivalent to a SW grip by modern definitions), and he tried it (he didn't say when, or for how long), but didn't stay with it because it didn't work for him as well as his Eastern grip.

    The point I was trying to make about the asymmetry of forehands and backhands is that they were taught as if they were symmetrical mirror images of each other, especially the footwork and set up. IMO, that convention is what caused so many players to be stronger on their backhand sides than on their forehand sides, and served as an example of what you characterized as correct technique actually being flawed. To be clear, IMO, an open stance fh is, and has always been, the correct way to set up for a forehand because of the inherent difference of a forehand - hitting with the back shoulder and the necessity of getting the upper body out of the way of the swing and the maintanence of balance throughout.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
    #54
  5. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    IMO, it's not just about producing topspin. Many players hit heavy topspin with a continental grip: Hoad, Laver, Okker, Nastase for example. Rather, the more neutral grips were the proper grip when playing on fast, soft, low bouncing grass which, to my knowledge, doesn't exist anywhere on the pro tour anymore. But, when taking balls near, or above, the shoulder, those grips are a disadvantage compared to a SW grip.
     
    #55
  6. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,063
    You yourself provided the photo of Don Budge (I presume as a junior) using a western grip:

    http://www.amazon.com/Don-Budge-Tenn.../dp/B000J3WLHS

    If you click on the photo you get this larger version:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000J3WLHS/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

    You can tell it's Western because even though the racket face is vertical and the racket staff is horizontal, his elbow is lower than his wrist. Contrast that to this picture you provided:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/bertmorganarchive/4417736026/

    Here, he is using an Eastern grip. Even if he raised his arm so that the racket would be horizontal, his elbow would still be slightly higher than his wrist.

    In the continental style, with the racket staff horizontal and the racket face vertical, the elbow is almost directly above the wrist:

    http://www.espn.co.uk/onthisday/sport/story/164.html
    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01428/Rod_Laver_1428240c.jpg
     
    #56
  7. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,078
    Frank, are you seriously suggesting the photo of Don Budge on teh cover of the green book entitled 'A Memoir' is of him as a junior?????

    LOOK AT HIS FACE!!!!!!
     
    #57
  8. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,078
    You've got them all running, Frank.
    :)
     
    #58
  9. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,071
    Frank, you should stay with what works for you. In most cases its rather difficult to change players strokes much as they get older. I've found that its frustrating for the teacher as well as the student and generally its very constructive for either. However, I've had many players who for one reason or another want to learn the "newer" strokes and do very well - they surprise themselves.

    I've even had players (one in particular that I've quite inspired by) who has actually has had to learn the game all over using a different arm. His right shoulder is totally shot even after several operations. Quite a story and a great athlete and person.
     
    #59
  10. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,063
    I never said he was a good-looking guy! He was probably 18 there. Hey, red-headed guys with freckles who spend all day out in the California sun don't always have the freshest complexions! And people with no visible chin or cheekbones can have flabby faces even at a young age!

    It might be easier for people like me, who were never any good to begin with. But if I had my way, I'd change the rules so that people with the newer techniques would have to learn the classic game -- if only so that the old tennis books would still be relevant. :)
     
    #60
  11. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,071
    Well, will some exceptions rules haven't changed all that much over the years - serve, tie-breakers, racquet size, etc. Thing many don't realize is that there our rules (USTA) aren't used world wide and that High School and Colleges use modifications to these rules. For instance in College (Div 1 & 2) there are no longer any lets on the serve - too much cheating on the let calls.

    I certainly get kids learning the volley, overhead, slice and other shots that were used long ago but the game has really changed primarily due to the racquets and strings.
     
    #61
  12. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    Why can't you just admit that most tennis books and many tennis instructors are mostly traditional? Based on your statement above, I have to wonder how traditional you are, as modern instruction has nothing to do with hitting every shot from an open stance.
     
    #62
  13. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,071
    Well 5263, I'm never quite sure what your talking about - I don't put labels on myself and never have. I want those that I coach/teach to learn how to volley, hit effective overheads, use the slice and so forth - sorry if you don't care for that but with all due respect, I don't care & think I'll keep doing what I do.

    Regarding my tennis library and tennis instructors. Again with all due respect, I would suggest you not wander far off your tether because your going to get in trouble quickly. I think maybe you should re-check/re-read Oscar's material on open stances. It wouldn't be my place to quote him but I'm quite certain he sees the open stance as better in most forehand situations.

    I know I have never advocated hitting everything from an open stance but again check your book and look at the pictures and read the captions before you start making crazy comments. I believe it has been Oscar who, although not the first, is a believer in the open stance but again, you check for yourself.
    Let me know which pictures in his book show/advocate using a closed or even a neutral stance for the forehand. Excluding the step-in volley and backhand, I bet there isn't one picture or any words advising readers to use a neutral or closed stance on the forehand in the entire book but you'll have to check that for yourself.

    I don't know or really care where your from or what types of clubs you visit or play at but you really should get your facts correct before you start questioning others. I'm not out pushing a product or service so I really don't care what style you attribute to me.

    Incidentally from everything I know, Oscar is a gentleman and very knowledgeable regarding tennis. His contributions to the
    game have been significant. I suppose most of us don't buy into a lot of the hype but that's another situation - he has a product to sell and I understand. Wish he wouldn't do it so much here but that's for TW to deal with.
     
    #63
  14. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    Frank,

    After listening Don Budge give a lecture on proper grips, and why he did not advocate a Western grip, I asked him personally about the grip in that picture. I told him that it looked pretty close to a Western grip. He explained that it was an Eastern grip with his wrist laid back, not a Western grip. Also, that book came out in the 1960's. The cover may be Budge as an amature or a pro, but, he's definitely not a junior in that pic.

    I would also tell you that it is very common for grips to shift a bit after contact. For example, I've seen several pictures of Federer's grip after contact in which it appears that his grip shifted from Eastern to SW. That may be what is depicted in that picture of Budge. But, as already stated, his explanation was that it just looks Western because his wrist is laid back.

    PS: That picture of Laver is showing him in front of the service line, so, it's almost certainly a fh volley.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2011
    #64
  15. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,071
    Although this happens somewhat, I'd be interested in your opinion on why it happens. Are you saying that pros go into the shot with one grip and after contact, they are in another? Pros are constantly making minor adjustments throughout the stroke but it sounds like your talking about rather major adjustments.

    We certainly have this with lower level players for a couple of reasons but I'd like to see your opinions on this subject.
     
    #65
  16. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    To be clear, I'm speaking strictly about the forehand. I'm not sure why it happens, but, I've seen many examples of Eastern grips morphing towards SW grips by pros. I can only speculate that they are making ball contact below the centerline of the racquet face, and that the impact, coupled with a very relaxed grip, is causing the racquet to slightly shift in their hands.
     
    #66
  17. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    You seem a little upset, and I did not intend that. I have much respect for your contributions on this site and we most often agree anyway.

    In this case we have some cause for debate as you made some unfounded blanket statements much like deluxe does; not your usual style. I like that you said you don't know what I'm talking about, as that is quite true here. Oscar's instruction, MTM, is not stance dependent. Open stance is a big teaching tool for MTM, but I repeat, MTM is not stance dependent on any shot. You may be caught in many stances during a match and you must know how to execute from any position. So your smart remark about a tether was not needed and only served to highlight what you didn't know about Modern instruction when made the comment about "hitting every ball from an Open stance" as though it had something to do with anything. Sorry if there are no pics for you. My book is on loan, so I can't ck that for you, even though I'm quite sure that playnice and Oscar can confirm that no MTM shots are stance dependent.

    I'm glad we agree that Oscar is a gentleman and has contributed greatly to the game!
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2011
    #67
  18. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,071
    OK. To me the centerline of the racquet runs the other way - from tip to handle, north to south. I think terms or our understanding of terms, often get in the way of any meaningful discussion. Maybe your talking about balls that strike "below" or "above" this line - toward the 3:00 & 9:00, or more to the sides of the racquet which "could" torque it a bit. Just trying to understand.

    In higher level tennis the racquet does get accidentally turned/torqued very much - maybe some but I don't think enough to notice. I suppose it could happen so you might be right.
     
    #68
  19. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,071
    Where did I say that all shots should be hit out of an open stance - I don't do it myself, don't teach or coach it. I happen to prefer an open stance in many/most situations especially on the forehand side but fully realize its not possible or prudent to use exclusively.

    I'm not employed by, connected with or have ever claimed to know everything about the mtm material - I have read Oscar's book and believe I did a review about it years ago.

    Its interesting that you make the statement that its not stance dependent - not sure Oscar would agree with that. I happened to look at his book a few minutes ago - there are about 25 pictures of forehands being hit/demonstrated by different players including himself. Guess what, every single picture shows the player in a open type stance and not one is of someone in a neutral or closed stance.

    I didn't re-read very much of the book but couldn't help but notice a few rather key phrases like "The best pro players keep the racket to their front until the ball is close"; "Open stance forehands are more powerful and natural";"Top pros emphasize lifting, not stepping forward"; etc. So, although I admit I'm not an expert in Oscar's methods, it would appear that there is an emphasis on open-type stances.
     
    #69
  20. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,063
    Indeed, the rackets must be much more powerful, if McEnroe is correct in saying that he now serves harder than he did thirty years ago. That, combined with the rule change allowing you to have both feet in the air and over the baseline at contact is what resulted in a boring Wimbledon final in which a huge number of points were service winners. To change that, I'm told, they switched to a slower, higher-bouncing grass. In my mind, they should have put the old service rule back; slowing the court resulted in Wimbledon winners who play like clay-court specialists. Also, in the days of 15 oz wood rackets and no tie-breakers, people who relied on windshield-wiper follow-throughs would poop out if faced with a set that went 15 games to 13 -- all the more so if they were base-liners.

    Perhaps Budge's grip did shift on contact in that photo; he would have to be double-jointed to lay his wrist back that far with an eastern grip.

    As for the picture of Laver, well, like most Australians he used the same grip for ground strokes as for volleys, right?
     
    #70
  21. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    Those are words right out of Oscar's mouth, as I've been on court with him many times. Modern tennis is not stance dependent.

    But you are right; there is a emphasis on open stance.
     
    #71
  22. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    FYI, the tennis establishment has been concerned about the domination of mens' tennis by the serve, and by the serve and volley game, as far back as 50 years ago. They wanted to bring back longer rallies similar to the pre Jack Kramer era for the benefit of public interest. Jimmy Van Alen (founder of the Int'l Tennis Hall of Fame and inventor of the tie breaker), proposed eliminating one serve, or alternatively, adding a line behind the baseline from which men had to serve. As of yet, neither of these ideas has been adopted.
     
    #72
  23. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    IMO, an open stance promotes a modern forehand swing and finish. It can be done with a neutral stance, but, it's more automatic with an open stance.
     
    #73
  24. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    That's the same centerline I'm talking about. Hitting above or below the 9-3 O'Clock centerline that bisects the top and bottom of the racquet wouldn't cause tortional rotation in your hand. Anyway, here's a slo-mo video of Federer showing the racquet turning in his hand at contact causing his grip to shift from Eastern to SW. The exact grips before and after may be debatable, but, the shift is pretty clear. Ignore the cheesy music.

    Federer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkDIFP4SK9Q&feature=related

    'Nando Gonzalez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hA28Wqp0Fg (Note that on the second forehand contact is above the centerline causing the racquet face to open a bit).

    PS: Even clearer, Federer at :10 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydMHJGpypQE&feature=related
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    #74
  25. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    Exactly, but
    there are compensations the pros use when caught in less than optimal stances.
     
    #75
  26. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,752
    That may be correct, but don't underestimate the amount of physical training he puts in now, compared to what he used to do in his playing years.
     
    #76
  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,752
    Pure open stance (feet parallel to the baseline throughout the shot) is a bad idea and used by pros only for deep balls which catch them by surprise.

    The inconsistency here that those who bash closed stance refer to the pure closed stance in which the back foot stays put through impact, not acknowledging that pros hit closed stance by stepping in with the front foot and then rotating the back foot through on impact - while using the term open stance to include semi open and semi closed stances and not the strict meaning. That is why most of these pseudo-arguments go on.
     
    #77
  28. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    I don't know what the addition of the word "pure" to the words "open stance" means in your mind. But, as I have explained in detail in this and other threads, an open stance forehand, where the right foot (for a right hander) is closer to the side fence than the left foot, is, and always has been, the correct stance for a forehand. As I have also exhaustively explained, a closed stance forehand where the left foot is closer to the side fence than the right foot, long taught as the correct method, is a technical flaw that should be avoided if possible under the circumstances. There is nothing pseudo about my arguments. That's a cop-out resulting from having no rational argument to the contrary. Not only is my explanation unassailable on its face, it is proven correct by history. The bottom line is that the stance that promotes the hitting shoulder to be even with, or in front of, the not hitting shoulder at contact is the optimal stance.

    Perhaps if you reviewed the entire thread, it would be easier for you to understand the factors that support the correct conclusion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    #78
  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,752
    You cannot use the literal meaning of one and the liberal meaning of the other in a selective manner.

    If the right foot is closer to the fence than the left foot, it includes semi open or semi closed stances as well, and including them under open stance is not correct. It doesn't matter whether you stated your definition before or not - that doesn't make it correct.
     
    #79
  30. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    That's a non sequitur and a false premise in one, Suresh. I have only used the literal meaning and I have defined what it is. The bottom line is that the stance that best promotes the hitting shoulder being even with, or in front of, the non-hitting shoulder at contact, is the optimal stance. A closed stance is a flaw that should be avoided if possible. Those premises are correct, whether you agree or not!
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    #80
  31. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    what a bunch of bull crap.

    if that were true, pro golfers will all hit their T shots square to the target... so will all the baseball hitters, and all the hockey players.
     
    #81
  32. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    Can't agree with this above.
    They semi- open is an Open stance and the idea of semi-open is just a hedge for neutral stance advocates to try to be closer to what is actually happening in high level strokes.
    So it does not even require him to define ahead of time.

    Semi-open does not really exits as used and is just an Open stance, but can be useful to be more descriptive of the open stance adjustments. Semi-open is not a neutral stance adjustment.
    You could make a better case that neutral stance is part of closed stances IMO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    #82
  33. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    Why in the world would you make this leap of assumption?

    Not sure whether I agree with Limpin or not at this point, but
    yours and sureshs counter points do not hold water.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    #83
  34. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    stance preference should have nothing to do with shoulder alignment at impact.... it's more about recovery time, which is not an issue in golf, baseball or hockey. (all of these use a closed stance, which means that stance gives the maximum power, but for tennis this marginal gain of power doesn't justify for the extra recovery time it requires)
     
    #84
  35. tennismonkey

    tennismonkey Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    735
    that's an interesting notion -- closed stance has the potential to hit with more power than an open stance?

    most ATP pros hit with open stance forehands. i think most WTA pros hit with closed stance forehands. obviously they both work but the open stance generates more RPM's on the ball which is arguably more important than sheer MPH's.
     
    #85
  36. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    say you want to hit a tennis ball as FAR as possible... what stance do you take? i think most people will use closed. I know I would.

    ATP is about spin, about moving guys around, so open stance, more spin, less time needed for recovery.

    WTA is about first strike to take the other girl out of position, flat balls rule there.
     
    #86
  37. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    Hahaha! How would you know, you've never played a tennis match in your life. And, I'm sure you are equally accomplished at golf.
     
    #87
  38. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    Limp you sound so desperate. so what I have never played USTA... like I said, my understanding of tennis is at the 'community park king' level, while yours is at the 'community park slave level'.

    I have shown how I play, anybody wants to dispute my 'park king' status can step up and dispute.

    and if you have anything to show you are not a 'park slave', show it.

    either we put up a $3k bet, or you put up a video, and I will sign up for a tournament.

    now put up or shut up.
     
    #88
  39. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    ^^^ now guys, just watch how the faceless coward weasel out of such challenge, because the faceless coward has got NOTHING.
     
    #89
  40. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    No,
    you would swing it more like a discus is throw.
     
    #90
  41. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    It would be good to realize that everyone does not prove their point thru a dare or bet.
     
    #91
  42. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,412
    Yeah, I agree. That's the method most people would naturally use.

    Just for the record,Darren Cahill answered a question about closed stance/step in style stroke on twitter. He said "tough to get the hand speed necessary for the game today that way. 45 degree stance and let the stroke fly"

    May have not got the quote exactly verbatim, but that's the gist of it.
     
    #92
  43. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    for tennis, sure, 45 degree is perfect.

    but go out and hit a few balls to an open grassy field, see which way you hit the furthest..... I know my longest ball would be hit with my feet line parallel to the target line, similar to golfing.

    but doing this in tennis would often lock myself into poor position after the shot is made, hence not optimal in tennis.
     
    #93
  44. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,752
    I use 45 degrees myself, but I don't claim it is open stance - that would be 0 degrees.
     
    #94
  45. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    Dozu has never played a real tennis match in his life, and he thinks a forehand is the same thing as a golf swing (which means he knows as much about golf as he does about tennis). Nevertheless, not only does he feel free to give tennis lesson online and criticize the advice of others, he actually assigns playing levels to himself and others as if he had any idea of what he was talking about. What a clown!
     
    #95
  46. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    No, zero degress would be with your feet in line with the target. If you are saying that your left foot is 45 degrees to the left of the target line from your right foot, then you are describing an "open stance."
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    #96
  47. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    Good point, but wasted effort. He knows that any amount of Open is Open stance. He will try to say he is 45 from the baseline and that neutral is 90 from the baseline, even though baseline is irrelevant. Things are from line of shot. He is just trying to twist the terms to fit his developing ideas on the Fh.
    He wants to hit it his way, but wonders why he can't execute the result he should be able to expect from proper technique.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    #97
  48. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    It might be your longest balls, but others swinging like throwing a discus would out distance you if they have similar ability, due to technical advantage.

    Our advantage in tennis, like discus, is that we can be in motion when hitting, not stuck in a stance like baseball and golf.
    And yes, there are reasons they are stuck in those stances.
     
    #98
  49. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    doubtful.

    maybe we need to get a bunch of guys go out on the grassy field and hit some.
     
    #99
  50. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    good points.
     

Share This Page