King of the Clay?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Ethan04, Apr 22, 2005.

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Can Nadal be the new "King of the Clay"?

  1. YES

    21 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. NO

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Ethan04

    Ethan04 Rookie

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    Can Nadal domainate clays like Muster did? Can Nadal be the new "King of the Clay"?
     
    #1
  2. Kevin Patrick

    Kevin Patrick Hall of Fame

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    Nadal is 23-2 on clay for the year. He's scheduled to play Rome & Hamburg after Barcelona.
    Muster was undefeated on clay through the French Open in '95. Both lefties, both grinders, both physically intimidating, Nadal could be a dominant clay player.
     
    #2
  3. Ethan04

    Ethan04 Rookie

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    Nadal aiming for 3rd consecutive title on clay..
     
    #3
  4. gugafanatic

    gugafanatic Hall of Fame

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    Finally Nadal seems to have support from all those doubters who thought he was not experienced or good enough to win the FO. I really think Nadal could hammer Federer 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 on clay the way he is playing right now. Immense, the next Guga in my opinion.
     
    #4
  5. splink779

    splink779 Guest

    If Guga was playing his best he could wipe the floor (well clay i guess) with Nadal. Unfortunately he's no where near his best, so Nadal is now the king of clay. He's proved he can beat the other favorites pretty handily (Coria, Gaudio, Ferrero). Not sure about him facing Moya though. I would love to see them run into each other now that Nadal is playing really well. They have similar games, plus they are practically in love with each other ;).
     
    #5
  6. Exile

    Exile Professional

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    I think if Gaudio can get his game together he will surpass nadal.
     
    #6
  7. Kirko

    Kirko Hall of Fame

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    He'sw there !
     
    #7
  8. nkhera1

    nkhera1 Rookie

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    I would have to say Andy Roddick is the king of clay. So far he hasn't even lost a set on clay. That is just amazing.
     
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  9. splink779

    splink779 Guest

    Too bad Gaudio's mentality is as prevalent as his beautiful backhand. At 25 years old (not 100% on his age) he probably won't change his mental attitude, unless he wins a couple more titles. This time if Gaudio meets Nadal in the FO final, Nadal isn't going to choke like Coria did/does, and Nadal will beat him. But even saying Gaudio is going to make it to the final again is pretty bold.
     
    #9
  10. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    Wait for Roddick to play a Spanish qualifier for the first round of the French open, and you'll see how Andy will finaly lose 3 sets in just one match. :lol:
     
    #10
  11. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

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    I myself think he already is, as someone pointed out he has only lost two matches on clay and has beaten the best clay courters. IMO he just needs to win the French to confirm that he is.
     
    #11
  12. gugafanatic

    gugafanatic Hall of Fame

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    Nadal Is The Best Player At The Moment. He Is Playing Better Then Federer, Sorry Fed Fans But This Is True. The Way He Is Humiliating Respectable Clay Courters Is Quite Unbelievable. I Just Wish Guga Doesnt Play Him In The Earlier Rds Of Up-coming Tournies. Furthermore Nadal Is Soo Confident Right Now, That Whenever He Steps Onto The Court He Knows He Can Win (invincibility?).
     
    #12
  13. antontd

    antontd Semi-Pro

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    I didn't know that Nadal already won French Open 2005. Let's wait and see, shall we? 3 of 5 sets, guys - A lot of running...
     
    #13
  14. sliceroni

    sliceroni Professional

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    I agree that he's playing better dirt ball that anybody else at the moment. But on clay anything can happen, like what happenned last year with Coria, going on a tear like Nadal is right now then getting crush by Federer in one final and choking in the FO final. An unexpected winner seems to be the theme for the FO, my guess is that it will happen again this year.
     
    #14
  15. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

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    Ferrero wasn't much of a suprise winner in '03 and I would imagine Guga wasn't really in '01 either, but I don't know. Maybe it happens every other year, which would mean that Nadal should win!!!
     
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  16. splink779

    splink779 Guest

    Haha yeah, that is a good point. My guess is Nadal will win the french this year and at least the next two.
     
    #16
  17. Andy Hewitt

    Andy Hewitt Professional

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    Once the clay courts open here, I will determine whether I am the king of clay or not!
     
    #17
  18. theace21

    theace21 Hall of Fame

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    Nadal is amazing...I hope I get a chance to see him in person. Only 18, his game will improve in the next several years...
     
    #18
  19. Exile

    Exile Professional

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    I miss guga...
    I also miss Goran, he was my favorite lefty, but that's another story.
    I suppose lefty's w/ extreme western grips and clay courts go extremely well together.
    I'm thinking if J. johansson can find some sort of direction with his game and finds some consistency with his backhand he would be a formidable opponent come grass season.

    Also,
    Where is Kiefer?
    He was becoming popular on US TV towards the end of last year and just dissappeared.
    I think I just answered my own question.... =)
     
    #19
  20. joeman957

    joeman957 Rookie

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    Nadal would definitely be the winner of Roland Garros... if it were all best 2 out of 3 sets. Nadal may have the talent, but it doesn't seem like he has the endurance. He has shown that in his match against Federer in Miami, and even in the final against Coria. Even though he won, he had to give up the third set to save energy for the 4th, since he was already down. The Grand Slams are not just a test of skill, but endurance also. I don't think he'll win, not because he isn't good enough, but simply because he doesn't have enough endurance.
     
    #20
  21. muklucke

    muklucke Rookie

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    There can only be one king of clay and untill Guga retires, everyone will remain his prince. GO GUGA!!!
     
    #21
  22. nkhera1

    nkhera1 Rookie

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    As mentioned by joeman957 Nadal doesn't have the stamina to play 7 best of 5 matches. He gets tired playing 1 best of 5 match, so it may be a bit of a challenge for him this year though if he can build some stamina then he should have a good chance.
     
    #22
  23. antontd

    antontd Semi-Pro

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    It's not his stamina, it's his style. He tries to get every ball back.
     
    #23
  24. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

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    I agree, and it isn't like all of his matches are going to be 5 sets.
     
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  25. nkhera1

    nkhera1 Rookie

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    He was really tired near the end of one 5 setter. Roland Garros will be even tougher where there are plenty of long matches for everyone even the best players. Besides Nadal himself has admitted this.
     
    #25
  26. aj_m2009

    aj_m2009 Professional

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    But you do notice that his strokes are built for clay, they work better on it. They aren't as effective on hard or grass courts so to win it is obviously going to take longer.
     
    #26
  27. SydW

    SydW Rookie

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    He will be the King of clay for a year the moment he wins RG. Right now it's impossible to not list him as one the huge favourite going into it, he did beat Ferrero, Coria and Gaudio convincingly and was very impressive. But many seem to forget Coria was on a clay winning streak I believe even hotter than Nadal's too last year, he didn't win RG and did lose to Federer in Hamburg final who ended his hot streak.

    One thing I know for sure though is I didn't think I read as many obnoxious post about Coria like he already is the King or the number one player as I have to read about Nadal now.
     
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  28. Chloe

    Chloe Rookie

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    We call this the recency effect.
     
    #28
  29. SydW

    SydW Rookie

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    yes, and probably the most obnoxious I'd ever encountered as yet.
     
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  30. Chloe

    Chloe Rookie

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    You do know what the recency effect is, no? It's cool if you don't, I would be happy to explain it.
     
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  31. SydW

    SydW Rookie

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    Of course but did I use the right word obnoxious? The recency effect to the obnoxious extent, is that how I can describe on some posts about Nadal here? Or is that wrong English? Do enlighten me.
     
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  32. Chloe

    Chloe Rookie

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    Well I meant that your impression that Nadal was getting more "King of Clay" hurrah that Coria was slightly misguided, since it probably only seems that way because it's happening right now. What happened a year ago seems less profound, however obnoxious it may have been at the time. That's how things generally work.

    Mind you, Nadal might be getting a little bit more attention, since he's younger. However, I like both he and Coria (I'm a paranoid fan of both!) and seem to recall the Coria love was pretty thick at this time last year too.

    Perhaps you understood all of this and I misunderstood you. In which case, my mistake.

    It's late now. I'll bugger off ;)
     
    #32
  33. SydW

    SydW Rookie

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    I couldn't care less who you like or don't.

    When I meant obnoxious, I meant the posts from that fanatic whoever, and also that crazy one who won't stop harassing posters when any negative comments are made on Nadal, or forcing people to acknowledge that a 18 yo Nadal is better than the 18 yo Federer.

    I don't think I had experienced such type of behaviours from the Coria fan last year with a similar hot form as Nadal at this moment.

    You clearly misunderstood me and you owe me an apology.
     
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  34. gugafanatic

    gugafanatic Hall of Fame

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    I HAVE COMPILED A LIST OF UNSEEDED CLAY COURTERS THAT ARE GOING TO POSE A MAJOR THREAT TO ANY ONE OF THE TOP 10 SEEDS AT FO.

    GUGA- Trichampion, made the quarters last yr despite playing through the pain barrier. Currently playing "pain-free" and is capable of taking out any player in the world if fully fit and inspired. Providing Guga can get through the early rds, he is going to be a force using the memories to inspire him to play hes best tennis.

    Costa- Another former FO champion. Gritty clay-courter who was coming back from the brink of defeat last yr pulling through in some 5 setters at RG. Experienced customer, could KO players such as: Henman, Roddick, Fed, Safin, Hewitt.

    JCF- (I assume he will be unseeded as he is ranked 42 in the entry system)- Beginning to find hes top form, although two lacklustre defeats to Nadal will have been a major setback. Currently one of the favorites for RG.

    IGOR ANDREEV- Big server with alot of weapons. One of the few guys to beat Nadal during hes peak on the dirt. Also defeated JCF at the French last yr. Brought up on clay, soo may pose a threat to players like Henman, A.Rod, Hewitt and Agassi.

    M Llodra- Made the quarters last yr, uncanny serve volley game is going to unsettle the baseline grinders. Will have the French crowd to spurr him on.

    R.Gasquet- Wat a backhand!. He beat Fed this yr, and looked good in hes defeat to Nadal at Monte Carlo. Terrific groundstokes, providing he gets some good preperation during Rome and Hamburg expect him to make some noise.

    A.Martin- has defeated Guga and Ferrero this year, dangerous player that will grind all day long.

    Juan Monaco- Rescently won a clay tournament, unheraled Argentine with alot of talent.

    Calleri- Seemed to run out of steam against Nadal at Barcelona. Another dangerous floater.
     
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  35. Misiti99

    Misiti99 Guest

    Nadal has prove himself on clay 2-3...but 3-5 is different story like everyone else has said. He was outlasted by Hewitt in 5 at the Australian Open....he also lost steam against Fed recently in 5. I'd love to see his record in 5 set matches where it went to 5 sets. The problem is....he's wiping everyone in straight sets on clay. I definitely think he beats Fed at the French....another possible finalist can be Juan Carlos...who also is destroying respectable clay courters. Lastly, what is with Coria.....a former number 1 junior....finalist at the french...doesn't look good this year. Is is true he hasn't been the same since last years French. He was embarassed by Agassi in i believe Miami...and I don't see him going far in the French..any thoughts?
     
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  36. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    I think the attention Rafa is getting would be received by any player who, over the course of four months, won 4 titles, went from 51 to 7 in the world, and was 35-6 on the year. Them's practically Federer statistics.

    And as Chloe said, the fact that he is 18 is really adding to the Rafa-lution, as it is being called, along with Rafa's style (which is pretty unique). This article from the Independent explains it a bit:

    As for Rafa's own assessment of his immediate future:

    And Nadal on Federer and No. 1:

     
    #36
  37. Chloe

    Chloe Rookie

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    You know, I don't think that we're talking about the same thing at all. I knew full well what you were talking about and my response made perfect sense. Whether or not the Coria talk was actually as "irritating" as the Nadal talk is up for debate, but recency would certainly play a role in that. As would personal preference.

    However, if you insist, I suppose I could regift your flowers.
     
    #37
  38. SydW

    SydW Rookie

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    As opposed to what you think, I understand well enough recency effect. You can debate as you want, I only pointed out what I noticed based on few exchanges with certain Nadal fanatic here and other posts I read. Don't think I had come across any other poster here who goes as crazy or as aggressive in defending their favourite.
     
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  39. Chloe

    Chloe Rookie

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    I don't think that I was defending anybody. I've been here one day and I've never had so many assumptions cast on me in my life. Okay, that's not true. But not so many at one time!

    Regardless, I apologize for acting like you didn't know what I was talking about.

    Did you get the flowers?
     
    #39
  40. SydW

    SydW Rookie

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    I didn't say it was you. I was talking about the other biggest fanatic I'd ever had the pleasure to meet in this forum. You misunderstood me, AGAIN. Maybe it was me.

    yes, got the flower, looks exactly like the one I sent out.
     
    #40
  41. Chloe

    Chloe Rookie

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    Me and VamosRafa are tight, yo. Unless you're talking about somebody else. I'm not tight with too many people around here!

    I'm glad that the flowers are in good shape.
     
    #41
  42. SydW

    SydW Rookie

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    Great, so we have VamosNadal here. YEAH!
     
    #42
  43. Chloe

    Chloe Rookie

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    Link me up to all my posts defending Rafa, please. Or, you know, quit leaking out the new hole I'm about to rip you.

    I need a new line. I already used that one on anton. And it made more sense then because he wasn't leaking out of a hole that hadn't yet been created.

    Anyways, couldn't you at least insult me for something that I've actually said? I don't ask much.
     
    #43
  44. antontd

    antontd Semi-Pro

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    SydW, accidentally I’ve dealt with VamosRafa and Chloe and believe me when I say - they don’t give up. It doesn’t even matter how bad they look. Let them have it.
     
    #44
  45. activentures

    activentures Rookie

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    Steady on son. The problem with Nadal is that his game is based on his physical condition, in both his stroke mechanics, and chasing everything down. My doubts revolve around what happens if he is not feeling 100%. The difference with Guga is he is (was) a more natural tennis player, especially on the b/h and played a more attacking game with more winners, and therefore less one dimensional. As for Federer, clay is easily his weakest surface, but he is still one of the top 5 guys on it, and is more than capable of beating anyone on his day. His defeat to RG was on a day he was playing badly, and RG was immense. Luckily for Nadal, RG could not keep this standard up the next day, and for the periods that he did, he easily outplayed the spaniard. IMO RG lost it rather than Rafa winning it.

    As for a comparison at age 18. I'd say Nadal @18 would have beaten Fed @18, but you have to consider that they are totally different. The type of game that Nadal plays, and his early physical maturity makes him the kind of player that will peak at a young age. Remember the hype when Chang burst onto the scene at 15, with many of Nadal's attributes. And yet he didn't go on to match the achievements of the likes of Agassi and Sampras. Nadal needs to really work on improving his game in terms of his serve and volleying otherwise his achievemnts will be limited, and he will plateau early. Moya would be a good role model, a fellow spaniard grinder who has developed a good serve, and despite claims of 140mph serves on this board, his serve remains poor, especially for a lefty. It was acknowledged in their match that Gasquet had a better all round game, and won many points from the net and clean winners. Watching that match, which was very even, it would seem RG has greater potential for improvement. Rafa is a great grinder, but needs to keep developing opther areas, and would add a lot to his game if he could learn to volley effectively.
     
    #45
  46. Chloe

    Chloe Rookie

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    Projection, my dear friend.

    The first part is a compliment, by the way. Thanks.
     
    #46
  47. SydW

    SydW Rookie

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    Really, what the ****? When I said I wasn't talking about you 2 posts back but the other fanatics, you went on and talked about you and him/her being tight (whatever that means I have no clue), so I made a joke and then you burst out with all this "When did I say this? Don't accuse me, I'm going to rip you" **** AGAIN. Dear do you want to be aggressive or you want to have a laugh and joke around, don't go here and there in between and start all this ********s on me.
     
    #47
  48. Ethan04

    Ethan04 Rookie

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    removed...
     
    #48
  49. Chloe

    Chloe Rookie

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    I am having a laugh. I guess it was just me.
     
    #49
  50. 10sfather

    10sfather New User

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    Nadal? Gasquet? Gasquet? Nadal? That is the question.
     
    #50

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