Ladies, How Are We Feeling About Our Serves?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Cindysphinx, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Lee,

    What Spoke might be trying to tell you is that the ladies are trying to have a conversation here.

    Can you, like, let us do that?
     
    #51
  2. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Eliza,

    Regarding the pro who said you won't have a good serve if you don't throw well . . .

    Maybe you won't have a "good serve" by his standards, but you can still have a serve that is (1) consistent and (2) tricky, therefore effective.

    If you make sure your fundamentals are good (i.e. Continental grip), you will be able to hit spin serves without too much trouble. Opponents at 3.0/3.5 go to pieces when faced with spin. It is definitely worth learning that Continental grip, IMHO!!!
     
    #52
  3. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I'll answer a question with a question:

    Do men experience "obstruction" when they run from a couple of things?
     
    #53
  4. Spokewench

    Spokewench Semi-Pro

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    Let's get this straight Lee, I never said that I lack strength. I've worked on my fitness and strength for many years. I raced mountain bikes, road bikes, for 20 years; worked in the gym on specific strength training, etc., etc. I hazard a guess that I'm probably fitter than you have ever been. Matter of fact, a lot of my fitness training and racing took place right in your neck of the woods. I lived in San Leandro for many yars. However, I don't usually make generalizations like you do just because someone is of a certain gender. But, I will make an exception for you if you would like.

    I work on my serve on my own time; I practice it a lot in the Summer when I can play on a court I don't have to pay money for. Right now, I live in a town that has 4 indoor courts, snow, wind, cold, and more cold. I do this not in matches. I'm not totally stupid as you would like to allude to above. I know how to train, I know how to practice, I know how to work hard. So, quit assuming you know who and what I am.

    At this time, you can scream to your heart's content about whether I choke up or not and how I produce my service motion. For one, you have never seen my service motion so you are talking out your _ss. Also, I've done all the things that you are talking about in your above post. Really, I've already tried all those things. And, right now, in order to produce the serve that I want, it works best if I don't choke up on my racquet. I'm not saying that this serve will evolve, because, so far my serve has evolved already.

    But, you seem to assume that you know all, that the things that you are talking about have not been tried already and those are all false assumptions.

    So, leave this thread alone, let us ladies figure out what we need to find out without assumptions made as to gender and physical ability.
     
    #54
  5. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Ah yes, always good for the blind to lead the blind.
    Now if even ONE of you would say "I HAVE a good serve", then there is a leader and an example.
    But no, none of you can serve because you don't know HOW.
    But why listen to someone who CAN serve and knows how. Better to quote your little books and quote your tennis instructors, who make what? 50 bucks an hour off you and you still can't serve?
    You only need to serve about average for a 4.5 woman to have a good serve. And you can't do that.
    Yes, I can serve about as well as an average 5.5 men.
     
    #55
  6. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Lee, really now. You need to run along. All you are doing is heckling people.

    Can you maybe start your own thread about your ideas about serving and everything else and leave this one?

    We've asked you nicely . . . .
     
    #56
  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    No, YOU asked me nicely.
    This is a public forum. How would YOU like it if we excluded you in a thread about hitting half volleys? I know you've hit some half volleys, so your input might be the best of all posted.....:shock:
     
    #57
  8. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    If I behaved as badly as you are in this thread, I should be excluded.

    Again, please stop. Seriously.
     
    #58
  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, someone trying to help you serve stronger and more consistent is behaving badly, yes.
    And of course, you still haven't tried shadow swinging to see if choking up allows your swing speed to be greater.
    Of course not, you want to argue, not improve.
     
    #59
  10. Spokewench

    Spokewench Semi-Pro

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    Yes, Lee, I'm seeing the picture now! Me Tarzan you Jane! Let's see you beat yourself on the chest some more. You are, if anything, a bad example of your gender. If you offered constructive criticism it would be one thing, but you seem to have to do the Tarzan and Jane thing all the time and it is offensive.

    Now, I will ignore your posts and talk to my lady friends to my heart's content!

    Spoke
     
    #60
  11. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Shut your eyes tight, close off your ears, and you will learn tennis the way you have since you started.
     
    #61
  12. Spokewench

    Spokewench Semi-Pro

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    One last comment - you are some guy that posts on tennis warehouse. I do not know you and from your attitude, do not want to know you. I would much rather take the advice of someone I know and trust than some completely unknown entity on a website forum. If I took your advice, it would probably show some inherent lack in my common sense.

    nuff said
     
    #62
  13. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Sorry, good advice not taken is exactly the shutting of your eyes, closing your ears, and shutting out your own mind.
    But it's OK, you do what works for you.
     
    #63
  14. eliza

    eliza Guest

    Which is wonderful, but still we cannot talk about OUR tennis with the same technical confidence you see reflected in many other Men threads. And this saddens me, b/c I feel we ladies are treated like some sort of mentally challenged minority, who has to listen gracefully, and silently.
    I hope more women will join tennis, and this forum, so that issues that pertain to female tennis (shots, strategy, role models, aging) can be freely discussed and ideas exchanged.
     
    #64
  15. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Schiavone serving
    [​IMG]

    Stosur serving
    [​IMG]

    Neither of them choke up on the handle. IMHO, proper serving technique can be achieved by (1) having a good pro look at your entire motion and you practicing the correct motion until you have it down pat (2) taping your motion and comparing it to what you think a good motion should be ala FuzzyYellowBalls or the serving videos which can be seen at tennis.com.
     
    #65
  16. TheBoom

    TheBoom Hall of Fame

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    Then why are you asking about stuff on the forum with people you don't know for the most part?!?!?! :shock:
     
    #66
  17. Hewex

    Hewex Semi-Pro

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    This is not meant to offend. This is something I've noticed in watching women's tennis and it happens in golf too( been playing that sport for 40 years). I don't think that some women swing hard enough at the serve. I understand that in matches, you want to get the serve in. But in drills and lessons, why not whack it harder so that you get comfortable with that approach?
     
    #67
  18. 8F93W5

    8F93W5 Rookie

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    I'm a man and can't (haven't yet learned) how to hit a hard serve. I have just one serve. Some topspin and no slice. The topspin doesn't kick up hard enough to bother anyone good 3.0 or higher. Even if it did, it's still my only serve and you can get used to it quickly. I'm 49 and am rated 4.0, but I'm not winning my 4.0 matches.
    Anyway: this thread is about ladies serves. There has to be a way for a lady (you all) to get a real good serve. I remember Jennifer Capriati was hitting 108 MPH at 14 years old. If a 14 year old girl can do that in 1989, I'd think a healthy adult woman could serve at 90 right now with the better strings we supposedly have. The Williams are hitting @ 120. Lots of pro's are hitting in the 100+ range regularly. You should be able to hit 90, and 90 is actually pretty good for a 3.5-4.0 IMO.
     
    #68
  19. catfish

    catfish Semi-Pro

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    My serve is an average to above average serve for a 4.5 women, but I don't really consider that as having a great serve. And BTW, I haven't paid for a bunch of 50 bucks an hour lessons on my serve. I mentioned that I am pretty much self taught and have never taken a ton of lessons. And I also said your comments were interesting and would give it a try just to see the results. But I guess you didn't read that part. Seems like you're more interested in ragging on the women here.
     
    #69
  20. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Last one, and then I'll bow out...

    ...because your point is well taken. You started this off as "Well, ladies, wuddia think?" And what you got back was a bunch of guys saying, essentially, "No, you stupid pig animals, here's the answer, it's obvious, you should have asked us in the first place!"

    So maybe there are gender/anatomic differences, or athletic experience differences, between men and women. Could be, but let's leave that aside for a minute. The thing that constantly amazes me, and this includes the WTA and the ATP, is how many bad service motions there are out there. And yet, a ton of these players still seem obsessed with "Serve? Who cares? The serve is obviously just stroke to get the point started, and then watch my two-handed cross-court backhand...".

    Great theory, which lasts about as long as it takes an opponent to take a helium ball first serve and hammer into either corner. Serena Williams, regardless of what anyone may think, ain't necesarily All That, but she is a phenomenal athelete, a great competitor, and she has that serve. Hamstring her with, say, Melanie Oudin's serve, and how many majors do you think Serena would have won? Answer: very few. Moral: Once again, the serve is the most important shot in the game, and the return is #2, in that order.

    And yes, I'll bet you that Serena throws a tennis ball, or any other ball, for that matter, pretty damned well, and my steadfast belief is that throwing a ball well is key to a really good serve. So, yeah, to an extent, there's a million things you can do to have a "good serve" without being able to throw a ball well, but I'd disagree that, if you can't throw a ball well, it's okay, because you still have good fundamentals.

    In post #38, the drill that Dave Hodge made me do...like a ton of other drills he made me do...was absolutely the last thing I thought would ever help improve my serve. I expected him to give a whole lot of micromanagement tips about choking up, or not choking up, or whatever, but instead, he told me to just work on throwing a ball well...which, and I'm a typical American Guy, turned out to be a lot more difficult than I would have thought. Stupidest thing I ever did...at the time...but, boy, did it ever pan out, later down the road...
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2011
    #70
  21. dlk

    dlk Hall of Fame

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    Great post. The serve is my best shot (untrained) & I can throw a football & baseball extremley above average, both bullet & distance (but bullet more).
     
    #71
  22. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
    #72
  23. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Finally, a nice guy with useful things to say!!

    : pulls up a chair for SkiRacer, offers him a beer :

    Well, it's all relative.

    Eliza is a 3.0 (IIRC), and I am a 3.5. I doubt either of us has what Serena Williams (or you) would consider a "really good serve." I won't speak for Eliza, but I am OK with that.

    I throw the way I throw. I am almost 50. There are significant limits to my strength and flexibility. I use to be able to throw a football with a spiral and throw a baseball, but we are talking decades ago. Could I go out and throw a tennis ball? Sure. Did my current pro ask me to do this in one of our early lessons? Yes. Would it look OK, if I warmed up sufficiently? Probably. Might I hurt myself if I went out and did this as a way to improve my serve? Probably.

    Still: If you use a Continental grip and have decent mechanics, you can hit spin serves. And if you can hit spin serves at 3.0, your spin serve is a weapon if it has any action on it at all.
     
    #73
  24. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Good question.

    I am also puzzled by this. I think there are two things at work.

    Some women won't try to whack the serve in practice/drills because they worry they will hurt their shoulders. Then you will have injured yourself in an unimportant practice session and you will feel like an idiot.

    Other women won't because they don't like to get out of their comfort zone, even in practice. This is something I will go to my grave not understanding.
     
    #74
  25. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    My serve is above the average ladies not yet a weapon because I keep working on it changing this or that. I believe practising serve is the most cost-effective way to improve my game as I am among a very few female players who are interested in working on their serves. I used to have spin serve and have a hard time to serve flat. The most difficult change is switching from FH grip to Conti.

    Recently I improved my serve by stretching out the tossing arm (palm open face net) and accelerated racket head before contact. I feel I could throw balls better now. I also work on my second serve and I need to discipline myself to practise only second serves in the match. I can't help trying the first serve in the match. Yesterday I played mixed doubles against men's doubles. I only hold one serve game by wining 4 points on my second serve - 3 return of serve wide and 1 weak return killed by my partner. It is an encouraging sign though we lost the match.

    Two years ago I played league match against an 11 year-old 5'1" girl who was trained by her father when she was 22 month. Her first serve aced me with power and accuracy (she seldom missed first serve.)and her second kick serve jumped higher than me and aced me too. She is my inspiration.

    I try to have more consistent second serve with more pace and spin now. When I resume my lessons in summer, I will work more on the kick.
     
    #75
  26. wihamilton

    wihamilton Hall of Fame

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    Hey Cindy,

    Just because your serve isn't powerful doesn't mean it can't be a weapon. I think it's important to realize that if you use your serve to set up the next shot then it's a weapon. In other words, it's the first part of a one-two punch (or a larger combination of shots).

    A simple example would be to serve out wide to pull your opponent off the court and hit mediocre returns to the open court. If you can do that consistently you'll apply enormous pressure on your opponent. They'll HAVE to come up with a quality return or you'll immediately have them on the defensive and, as a result, you can expect some unforced errors when they start to take bigger cuts at the ball.

    Worth noting that raw power isn't ideal in this situation as it reduces your ability to create angles. A kick serve (slice works too) that lands halfway up the service box is much more preferable.

    Bottom line is that a kick serve (hit as a first serve) that is both consistent and placed well is a weapon. Opponents at the rec level can't do anything with that, even if the serve lacks power.

    Power is actually overrated and, perhaps more detrimentally, leads many people to conclude that the only way your serve is a weapon is if you hit it 120 MPH and the ball doesn't come back. Only really, really good players can do that consistently. And you can be a really, really good player without that ability.

    Will
     
    #76
  27. tennislady

    tennislady New User

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    Here is another reply from a 4.0 female player. I think it's great to have some female tennis players on these threads.. Been playing for some 30 years now and the serve is by far the weakest part of my game. Not bad enough to loose matches, I can place it where I want, just not enough power. Serve definitely does not give me any free points. But then I play on a league where I have yet to go up against another woman whose serve I cannot return. some of my own observations... I need to put in more court time practicing my serve. I need to get stronger to swing up and out harder. I need a heavier racket to put more weight to ball. And definitely learn to throw a ball over net as far as possible. That is the fun challenging part of the tennis game, studying the technical part, practice and watch the progress. I love studying technique and just about every time I serve I work on some aspect of serving, like pronation, elbow position, weight transfer, foot position ,slow swing start and swing acceleration ,etc .
    I agree with Cindy, where are the female tennis players, let's hear from you on these threads.
     
    #77
  28. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Okay, I got it...

    ...I'm 62, and, because we're tennis players and (ahem) Chronologically Challenged Athletes, I doubt we have much fondness for the word "limitations". But they do exist, don't they?

    So you have my full attention: I believe you have the right approach to the best serve you can muster, and I'm pretty sure you're firmly headed in that direction. Using the base you already have for your serve, work on developing a kick serve (you're already doing that, and that's as much legs as it is arms and torso), and think variety (varied pace, direction, and spin) on the serve as your primary weapon. Give your opponents a different look on the serve, and good things will happen. Oh, and thanks for the beer, next time you're in Denver or thereabouts, I'll collect...
     
    #78
  29. eliza

    eliza Guest

    Thanks to all women, and the nice men who are writing.
    I agree with Cindy, ladies think either I am going to injure myself (it is not like I am getting up in the morning and think Oh, well, today I am will work on serves...) or make a fool. At least my generation (and I am Italian, so even worse) has suffered all kinds of pressure, to look, to be, to act in a certain way): to play baseball was not an option for me, as I told that Pro, so sorry, I did not develop the right muscles when I was 8-10.....I am now 41 and thinking I want to play for as long as I can, and yes, improve!!!
    Now: we could accept the "male"model, and work on the serve according to their principles, engaging the same muscles (and I am doing weight training to develop them) or/and we can start discussing (and I would love to get female Pros, and coaches here) whether a different approach to tennis would be beneficial? B/C it seems to me self-evident that a male constitution allows much more power in the shoulders-arms......I am fed up of being told "look at Federer", I always reply: I will look at Schiavone, Serena, Samantha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    To that poster who said I am using "little books", well again, Oscar Wegner's book SAVED my serve from the BTS that I was fed by local "Pros"..........I just bought a DVD of his, to support the book, and intend to follow his method b/c it gave me the results I needed.......But this does not mean blind trust, and that's why I love this threads................
     
    #79
  30. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    So many great replies!

    Will, you're right about the placement/spin thing. It is part of why I gave up on my own "hard, flat" serve. It just doesn't impress anyone. The women I play against play 7.0 and 8.0 mixed. They have to return serves 2x as fast as mine. In fact, I would say that my return is the weakest part of my game, and even I can return the serves of every 4.0 woman I have faced (except one -- the 4.0 lady who stood in the doubles alley and hit sliders out wide and into the body).

    On the issue of spin, I have started to think that is the ticket. I had a 4.0 tell me a few years back that she normally likes to tee off on serves, but she had to return my serve defensively. Indeed, whacking the serve into one of the corners and running to the net seems to be the first page in the 4.0 singles playbook. If I can make this a bit more difficult with spin, that is probably my best shot at survival.

    Tennislady, I'm curious about your remark about getting a heavier racket. Have you tried lead? I ask because I only tried it once, and all it did was hurt my shoulder. That was a long time ago, though -- maybe I should try it again?

    To all the ladies, how is your upper body strength? Speaking as someone who has never once in her life been able to do a single chin-up, it would be inspiring to hear if anyone has developed a great serve without working really hard on upper body strength.

    CrystalClear, I assume you are now using Continental all the time for your serves? But you said the change was difficult. How did you make the change -- slowly, overnight? In my case, a pro told me to change when I had only been playing a few months. He said if I stuck with it non-stop for two weeks I would be used to it. And he was right. Still, my grip would sometimes migrate back over to EF if I didn't pay attention to it, and sometimes I would get confused about whether I was actually in Continental. To help with that, a pro drew an outline of my index finger onto my overgrip so I could line up quickly and also so I could check the grip after I served (in practice) to see if I had maintained the grip throughout the serve. That was really helpful!

    And where is Topaz?!?! :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
    #80
  31. Hewex

    Hewex Semi-Pro

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    Eliza,

    Which DVD di you buy and which part of Oscar's approach helped your serve? BTW, I emailed Oscar a question and he responded. :)
     
    #81
  32. Hewex

    Hewex Semi-Pro

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    Cindy,

    Maybe I missed this, but have you done any weight training? Even very low weights with higher reps ( say 15) would help you tone and build strength without injuring you.
     
    #82
  33. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I do an outdoor boot camp, and I've been doing this for 11+ years. Two days a week are upper body training. I also have weights in my bedroom, but I mostly use these for stubbing my toes.

    Sadly, I am bored with the class right now and it is crazy cold outside, so I have been sleeping in. Skipping class is not helping me toward getting that chin-up!!
     
    #83
  34. wihamilton

    wihamilton Hall of Fame

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    Next time you play focus on that one-two punch. Serve exclusively out wide and see where your opponent puts most of her returns. Chances are you'll be able to pick up on her return tendencies very quickly. If she's returning from the doubles alleys and hits a mediocre return, put your next shot into the open court. See how that works and let me know.
     
    #84
  35. obtn

    obtn Rookie

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    If you have been going to this class for 11+ years and you still cannot do a chin-up, I think it is safe to say the class is doing you no good for strength.

    Having some experience myself with weightlifting (and being able to do about 18 chin-ups in a row), I can tell you that the best way to be able to do a chin-up is to do the actual motion, but with easier exercises. For example, you can do a negative chin-up, where you get yourself up to the top of the chin-up position via chair or whatever, and then slowly let yourself down. Another option is to get some long resistance bands to help with the effort, and take some of the weight off your arms.

    I know this is sort of a tangent and being able to do a chin-up may not help your tennis game, but I can't help but chime in on fitness related commentary. My fitness is a huge advantage in my tennis game, and I am constantly trying to improve it even further.

    To relate this to this thread, improving your fitness will also help with your serve. I can get significantly more leg drive than I used to (although my form is still lacking here, so I am not getting all the benefits) after improving my fitness via weightlifting, not to mention overall upper body strength. Even if you are not concerned about hitting a hard, flat serve, having your upper/lower body in good enough shape to consistently repeat a kick serve motion for 2 hours or so will be a huge advantage and help with consistency.

    I suppose fitness is for another thread though, so I will leave it at that for now, hehe...
     
    #85
  36. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Well, you'd be wrong on that. The class is great. You get out of it what you put into it, which is why I feel so guilty about sleeping in lately.

    About the chin-up . . .

    About five years ago (so about five years into the class), I decided that I was going to learn to do one chin-up, come hell or high water. I told the instructor this goal, and he gave me intermediate steps to move me in the right direction. I thought I had a decent shot, as my weight was at its lowest.

    By the end, I still could not jump up to a bar with palms facing outward and lift my body weight so that my chin was above the bar. I really gave it everything, but I couldn't do it.

    I take it that you are a Dude?

    If so, then it does not surprise me that you think a chin-up is do-able. For me (and for every other woman in the class), it is not so do-able.

    Cindy -- who also loses patience with flexible people who think that doing the splits ought to be do-able for everyone
     
    #86
  37. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    Hi.
    Today, my name Riley. I'm seeking permission from all the ladies in this thread to post my comment in this virtual "reserved" thread of TW co-ed tennis sub-forum.
    Thanks
     
    #87
  38. eliza

    eliza Guest

    Hewex, I bought the "shots" one, if I like it I will buy the series.
    I am not surprised he replied to you, he is a true professional.

    Body strength: easy to say Cindy's class did not work. Everything is relative........
     
    #88
  39. obtn

    obtn Rookie

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    Being a "dude" has almost nothing to do with being able to perform a chin-up. I know and have seen women 60+ who rep more weight on their deadlifts and squats than my personal max. And they aren't bodybuilders or even bulky for that matter. Your limit is only what you tell yourself you cannot do. Unless there is a serious injury preventing it, I see no reason why anyone of reasonably normal weight cannot learn to do a chin-up in a reasonably short time (couple of months, maybe).

    Anyhow, it seems like you are holding a grudge against any guy who posts here anyways, so I will leave this topic alone.
     
    #89
  40. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Grudge against guys who post on this thread?

    Nah, only the ones who are more interested in talking than listening. :)

    Some of the fellas have been delightful. SkiRacer already got a beer and a chair, and I'd give Will a beer but he looks like he takes his fitness too seriously to enjoy it.

    As far as whether being a dude has anything to do with being able to perform a chin-up . . . The US Marine Corp disagrees with you. Men have to do pull-ups. Women do not.
     
    #90
  41. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Their standards and requirements are a little different from club tennis players ....
     
    #91
  42. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    ^Yes, of course.

    What I meant is that it is incorrect to say that gender is unrelated to one's ability to do a pull-up.

    If guys cannot understand or recognize that there are differences in upper body strength in men v. women, then I think it can be difficult to have a discussion about things like serving.
     
    #92
  43. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    And that is why I had asked a question before in my usual delicate and sensitive manner, but no one has replied.
     
    #93
  44. obtn

    obtn Rookie

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    I'm offended that you think I am not listening. I have simply been providing my opinions/suggestions based on what you all are posting. I couldn't do that without reading your posts. Just because my advice does not line up with your expected response, doesn't mean you should chastise me and say that all I want to do is talk. If you don't want to get stronger or more fit to help your serve, fine, but maybe my advice could help other women who do.

    PS: The fact that the US Marine Corps conforms to societal expectations does not prove that women cannot do chin-ups.
     
    #94
  45. eliza

    eliza Guest

    Obtn has a point. I tell you though, I am doing push-ups and they are awful......I think I almost got tennis elbow from them (OK, most probably b/c the form was gone) but do not ask me to do chin-ups, I truly cannot. Likewise using 10+lbs free weights............
    This is another suggestion given to me: get a garbage bag, put 20 tennis balls and use tape to form a "necklace", choking the bag before and after each one. Then use this "rope" with the arms, by throwing gestures, or shadowing a serve.....
     
    #95
  46. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    What has always tickled me about women's club tennis are the memos I see about ladies AA, BB teams etc. Who came up with the idea of using "apparel" sizes for tennis levels LOL I always get a kick out of this. AA ladies please assemble on this court hehehe
     
    #96
  47. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Apologies for suggesting that you were not listening. I was thinking about a certain poster who didn't behave in a helpful fashion earlier in the thread and got it off to a bad start, not you. Specifically, LeeD.

    I disagree with your belief that if a 45-year-old woman cannot do a chin-up, this means her fitness program is bad. But I don't have any problem with you expressing your opinions on this thread.

    Still friends?

    [edit: And here is a challenge. Show me one woman on this board who can do proper pull-up. So that's dead arm hang, palms away. Pull up until chin is above bar. There are women who can do this (the name for these women is "gymnast"), but I doubt you will find many rec tennis players who can even come close.]
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
    #97
  48. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Hey, I replied! In a delicate and sensitive manner. :)
     
    #98
  49. obtn

    obtn Rookie

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    Interesting, I've never heard of the rope thing... I could see how this would build up the serve muscles, although working out the shoulders/rotator cuff area with free weights seems like it would be just as useful for building up the strength in that area, and doesn't involve creating an odd contraption. However, it seems that the rope idea would specifically target the serving muscles exclusively...
     
    #99
  50. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    There is a big difference in size and position. Can't imagine it making a difference on the serve.
     

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