Laserfibre tt and Alpha Revo

[sunray]

I plan to buy a new stringer in the next week or so. I’m tossing around a Laserfibre MS200 tt or an Alpha Revo. Possibly a Gamma X-ST. I’ve been using my roommate’s Egnas Flex. We agree it’s a worthless piece of crap. It is so bad and the stupid thing cracked my racquet when one of the mounts snapped off the machine. I have to spring for my own machine and time for me to share with my roomie.

All the shops around use electric machines and I like how my racquets come out when they do them. But I string like 3 times a week and it gets to be too much. The guy said they only use constant pull. There is another forum of pro stringers and it’s like they all use it too. Some people here say it’s not important. But even when they say it’s not important, a lot of them use constant pull too. There must be something to it.

Here is my thinking. The shop guys say stay away from the cheap electric machines. I can’t afford $1000+ for a good one. I gather the Revo is a good machine but it is a crank up and not constant pull. The LaserFibre is a good machine for about $50 more and it is constant pull. The Gamma and the Laserfibre are the same price. For the same money I think I’d take the Laserfibre for the constant pull. Just my thinking.

I’d like to here from people who have used cranks and switched to the Laserfibre style and Laserfibre to crank style to get some opinions about comparing ease or difficulties of how they work. My only experience is the Egnas and an ATS Super Stringer. I don’t want to end up fighting with machines like that again.

 

[fwtennis]

Both are great quality machines. Both companies have the reputation for helpful customer service. Being that close in price, it is a pick 'em. Since you are leaning to constant pull, the LF is your only choice unless you up your budget to the better electric machines as you said.

In terms of comparing how easy they are to work, I think I can speak a little to that. Although I have never strung on a Revo 4000, I have owned a couple of Ektelons in my day. The lock-out mechanisms are essentially the same. I now use a LF MS200Tt myself for the same reason you are thinking. The LF is so easy to tension, I find it is as easy as tensioning a lock-out. Not as easy as electronic. As easy as lock-out with the results of the electronic. It is very sweet.

The mounts, I am not sure about. It looks like the Alpha has 6 adjustments to make. The LF has 5 to make if you are striging the same racquet over and over again. 6 adjustments if you move from racquet to racquet. I would consider no advantage there for either stringer.

Clamping both are DA swivel clamps. No advantage to either machine there.

Alpha has a 5 year warranty. LF has a 10 year warranty. Under normal use, both will probably last a 50 years. Whether it is 5 years or 10 years, it likely does not matter.

All melts down I think to being is it worth $50 to get a constant pull instead of a lock-out. I found it is but it is your call to make.

 

[backboard34]

i'm with you on constant pull doing a more consistent job. did you check out the crazy thread about constant pull? kinda confusing. don't get that thing going again.

 

[fwtennis]

Yeah. I am sorry I ever started that post. I sent an email to a couple of the companies to see if they could clear things up a little better. If I get a reply, I will see if I can post it here.

 

[sunray]

Holy crap. Who can make any sense of that thread? I never considered my super stringer constant pull. Constant tension change maybe. It was a pain in the but getting the arm out straight and staying there. The cheapo clamps did'nt help matters. I'd be interested to see what the factories say about it.

Fw, thanks for the info. good stuff. It's hard to decide. BTW, have you ever checked if the tension is on when the arm is not straight out horizontal on the first pull? There was a post about it and a guy said it wasn't but then he corrected himself and said it was. It's important to me because i think that will be the thing to make up my mind.

 

[Gaines Hillix]

Holy crap. Who can make any sense of that thread? I never considered my super stringer constant pull. Constant tension change maybe. It was a pain in the but getting the arm out straight and staying there. The cheapo clamps did'nt help matters. I'd be interested to see what the factories say about it.

Fw, thanks for the info. good stuff. It's hard to decide. BTW, have you ever checked if the tension is on when the arm is not straight out horizontal on the first pull? There was a post about it and a guy said it wasn't but then he corrected himself and said it was. It's important to me because i think that will be the thing to make up my mind.

I don't want to start up the arguement again and it may not make that much difference to most people, but IMO there is a difference between constantly pulling such as on a drop weight machine and "true" constant pull as implemented on electronic machines. It is true that relatively small angles above or below horizontal still create tensions that are close to the reference tension on a drop weight, but there is no attempt made to constantly adjust to the perfect set tension as there is with an electronic machine. The tension will keep changing as the arm drops further and there is no attempt made to account for it.

 

[barry]

I think David did a good job educating everyone on Constant Pull, providing both definitions, and examples.

In the end everyone finally agreed all drop weight systems were constant pull! The only item which remained undefined was concerning LF machines and their definition of true constant pull!

 

[Stan]

All drop weights are NOT constant pull for crying out loud. People in this forum are absolutely crazy if they believe they are. As Gaines says, "constantly pulling" and "constant pull" are two different concepts completely. How much more obvious could it possibly be?

 

[barry]

All drop weights are NOT constant pull for crying out loud. People in this forum are absolutely crazy if they believe they are. As Gaines says, "constantly pulling" and "constant pull" are two different concepts completely. How much more obvious could it possibly be?

Before anyone can have a discussion on Constant pull, first you have to stipulate a couple of facts.

1. Constant pull only applies to the tensioning method use
2. Constant Pull definition - "A “constant pull” type uses either gravity or electric tensioning and continues to pull tension as the string stretches, and, until the tensioning head has been “deactivated”. "

Since these have been well established, I would like to read any thoughts you have on the subject! Also concerning the use of the equipment, you have to use the machine properly. I.E. a constant pull electronic machine, does not work if the power is off, nor does a drop weight if you cannot get the counter weight almost horizontal.

 

[Stan]

Barry,

I am unsure of the source of your definition, but check this out.

According to the United States Racquet Stringer's Association:

"Constant-pull machines pull the string to the desired tension, but when the string starts to equalize and lose tension, it pulls a little more again to stay at reference tension."

Source web site: http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200409/200409machine_guide.html
(Look under tensioning systems for the quote)

Given this definition, my statement that all drop weights are NOT constant pull is accurate. As is my assertion that "constantly pulling" and "constant pull" are indeed different terms that need to be distinguished.

 

[barry]

Barry,

I am unsure of the source of your definition, but check this out.

According to the United States Racquet Stringer's Association:

"Constant-pull machines pull the string to the desired tension, but when the string starts to equalize and lose tension, it pulls a little more again to stay at reference tension."

Source web site: http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200409/200409machine_guide.html
(Look under tensioning systems for the quote)

Given this definition, my statement that all drop weights are NOT constant pull is accurate. As is my assertion that "constantly pulling" and "constant pull" are indeed different terms that need to be distinguished.

Stan do you understand gravity. An electronic machine only pulls to the desired tension which by definition is the same as the counterweight on the drop weight system. Since the counterweight never deactiviates, it is constant pull.

Both definitions are the same, and David whom I understand is a officer in the United States Racquet Stringer's Association says drop weight machines are constant pull.
And if you read both definitions they both use the key until the tensioning head has been “deactivated”. " My definition came from http://www.e-tennis.org/whisgostjo.html

 

[Stan]

With all due respect, you and David are both wrong in this instance. Drop weights do not stay at the reference tension. That's why the bar has to be parrallel.

 

[barry]

With all due respect, you and David are both wrong in this instance. Drop weights do not stay at the reference tension. That's why the bar has to be parrallel.

Just as a test, I strung a racket and left the bar parallel over night. It did move 1/4 inch. I was using prince synthetic gut 17 so there was a little elongation. Also I replaced my drop weight tensioner with a Wise 2086 and what it does is pulls the tension to where you specified say 60, but does not exceed it, and keeps tugging. Not sure which machine you own, but the point is 60 pounds is the same on a counterweight system as a electronic system. On SP tennis they have a video which explains constant pull, you can see a small movement after the tension is reached, which is what constant pull is all about. Gravity and electronic tensioners do the same thing, they pull to the desired tension, and continue to hold that tension, until released. The string elongates.

If you use pre-stretch 10%, the Wise 2086 pulls it to 66 then backs off to 60. Now that I have converted the machine to electronic, I would never go back to mechanical. It is much simpler and exact every time.

 

[backboard34]

sunray, my laserfibre ms200tt - eco is coming today. i'll give you my thoughts after i get some sticks done tonight.

dudes, do a new thread if you're going to keep debating constant pull. that old thread offered no agreement to anything. if anything it proved drop weight is not constant pull like an electronic.

 

[barry]

sunray, my laserfibre ms200tt - eco is coming today. i'll give you my thoughts after i get some sticks done tonight.

dudes, do a new thread if you're going to keep debating constant pull. that old thread offered no agreement to anything. if anything it proved drop weight is not constant pull like an electronic.

Debate is over, it has been decided! I think a lot of LF customers are going to disagree with you, as an LF machine is also drop weight!

 

[fwtennis]

Sunnray, I have a Prince digital calibrator. The first thing I did when I got the stringer was to check their claim the arm can stop anywhere and it will be the reference tension I sset. It did not matter if the arm was stopping at 2 o'clock or 5 o'clock, the calibrator would read spot on +/- up to 2 tenths or about 55 grams on any single pull. In my book, that is damn good. Someboday was saying even the $8,000 babolat is only accurate within 100 grams. No slouch in its own right.

For grins I just checked it again and bingo! After about 200 racquets, it is just like the day I got it.

 

[RacquetDoctor]

fwtennis,
For those who never owned or used a stringway(laserfibre), they just don't get it.

I agree, great piece of engineering on a simple design. I enjoyed mine while I had it.

Mark

 

[fwtennis]

Doc, you say while you had one? What happened to it?

 

[backboard34]

i got 9 sticks done on the tt. i can already tell big difference. pinging the strings with the racquet after 3 days of play I can hear they really keep a lot more tension long after stringing. much more consistent playing. I compared it to the old czech sport crank i was stringing with. i'm going to see if the club will let me do a stick on their babolat and see how the tt smacks up.

fwtennis, how did you put a calibrator on your's? do you have the tt-eco or tt-premium? is it like a stringmeter or like the tube machine calibrator?

sunray, it was a little slower at first. it took a few sticks to get used to the tensioner from the crank tensioner i'd been using for 5 years. since you don't have to putz around with the arm like a kliper and such it is a million times easier than those. don't know why anybody would want one of those if these are as cheap as 400 bucks. once i got 2 or 3 done, i was cruising. i guess it is about the same amount of work as a crank. stringings seem nicer though.

tough call to make. personally, i'd go with results as top priority. i give a little advantage bump up to the laserfiber over the crank.

 

[fwtennis]

My calibrator is neither.The old Prince digital is a smaller black square thing. I mounted a racquet, inserted the anchor string through a grommet and clamped it on the inside of the racquet. The actual calibtrator is small enough to fit between the outside of the racquet and the red string gripper. I put the other string in the gripper and let the machine pull tension.

You can not use a String Meter to calibrate a stringing machine. If you use a regular calibrator like a Gamma or Alpha, clamp the anchor string into the two clamps and then the other goes into the gripper.

 

[RacquetDoctor]

fw...

Sold it to a guy on the boards here when I purchased my Sensor.

--Mark

 

[JRW]

fwtennis,
For those who never owned or used a stringway(laserfibre), they just don't get it.

I agree, great piece of engineering on a simple design. I enjoyed mine while I had it.

Mark

... and I'm enjoying it still to this day. Thanks Mark.

 

[sunray]

Thanks guys. You can get stringing machine overload trying to decide the right machine. So many opinions. I think the Laserfiber tt makes the most sense of all that I looked at. The Revo is really nice but I feel crank tensioning is a little old school compared to constent pull.

I had a chance to string on a Laserfiber a week ago and it was sweet. I'll be stringing on my new tt this weekend. I'll report after I had a chance do some more.

 

[fwtennis]

You are right. I bet most people coming here end up with overload. I've been around retail stringing a while and I think the Alpha Revo and the LaserFibre TT are dollar for dollar and quality for quality are the two best value machines in that price range. Really your only consideration is between constant pull and lockout. FYI: I got a reply from one of the manufactures regarding their perspective of constant pull. It definitely clears up the muddied water. Let me know if you want and I'll email it to you. It will make you glad you chose constant pull.

 

[jj300]

fwtennis, do you mind sending me the reply you got? gfinger32@yahoo.com

thanks

 

[fwtennis]

jj300, I do not mind. But the reply I got was answered and directed to me personally and not a boilerplate company response. Before I offered to pass it around, I should have checked to see if they don't mind first. Maybe they'll let me post the reply here. I can say I found it very enlightening and puts "constant pull" into a very clear perspective.