laver question

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by adil1972, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. adil1972

    adil1972 Professional

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    did laver played all 4 grand slams in 1963 and 1970, because he failed to defend all 4 grand slams in 1963 and again in 1970
     
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  2. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    No. He turned pro end 1962, and was shut out from the classical majors for 1963, and for 5 and a half years until June 1968, when he could play the now open RG major. In 1970 he didn't defend his titles at AO and RG, because of promotional struggles between the national federations and the pro groups of NTL resp. WCT.
     
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  3. adil1972

    adil1972 Professional

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    so thats why laver failed to defend his CYGS 1962 and 1969
     
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  4. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Urban got it correct.

    Simply put, he could not defend any of them in 1963 and could not defend two of them in 1970.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
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  5. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    There was no need to defend them.

    No one has come close to winning a grand slam since Laver.
     
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  6. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Well Actually

    Well actually 3 times Federer has come only 2 sets away from winning the Calendar Grand Slam - 2006, 2007 & 2009.
     
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  7. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    In my opinion Djokovic and Federer have both had seasons equal to Laver's.
     
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  8. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Two sets can be a hundred miles, just ask Hoad.

    The big hurdle for Fed was Roland Garros, where he was really no more impressive than Gonzales or Sedgman, both of whom were multiple runnersup there.
     
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  9. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Both had trouble at RG, and were really no closer to a grand slam than Hoad or Emerson.
     
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  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    If so, then so did Borg,Connors,Sampras and Wilander
     
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  11. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    Didn't Connors play a 40 year old Rosewall in two slam finals? That's just goes to show that the competition wasn't as great. No 40 year old today is making the finals of any major tournament, to say nothing of two slams! Sampras...no.
     
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  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    deleted post
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
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  13. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    If Rosewall went to the finals, beating ex number 1 Smith and ex number 1 Newcombe, yes it may sound strange, but that means he played well enough to make it.That is, he became the most dangerous opponent for Connors just because he was the one who reached the final.i don´t understand that constant need to belittle feats
     
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  14. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Chopin, 1974 had also Newcombe, , Laver, Ashe, Okker, Smith, Nastase, Kodes, Orantes, Borg, Vilas, Tanner. Competition not great??? The problem was that "superhuman" oldie Rosewall had beaten them before the finals...
     
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  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, well said. Newcombe was even the actual No.1 (at Wimbledon).
     
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  16. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    Well, when will a 40 year old guy make the finals of two slams in this era?
     
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  17. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    (Chopin was dead by age 40, by the way).
     
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  18. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    rosewall was 39yrs old in both finals..(b. nov 1934)..he was superfit, the sort of bloke who could prob do triathlons or mountain/fell running nowadays.
     
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  19. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    He wasn't that competitive though from what I saw. Well, regardless, I've created a new poll, which I'm sure should be of great interest to many posters here.
     
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  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I just can´t believe Chopin,me and a few other posters, after those years, still keeping loyal to TT¡¡¡ we´ll have a longer longevity than Rosewall...
     
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  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Bobby, I apreciate your sense of humour ( when you are not mad).But it would be better if you could enhance Rosewall, as you always do, without belitteling Newcombe...or giving him due credit.
     
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  22. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    You mean 1969, but far better than 1962 since it's was an amateur field.
     
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  23. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I don't understand your post. In my post I did not write anything of humour or madness. I do not enhance Rosewall and I do NOT belittle Newcombe, your idol (with Laver). I just corrected you when you wrote that Rosewall beat "ex-No 1 Newcombe". In fact Newcombe was the REIGNING champ and seeded No.1 at Wimbledon That was one of Rosewall's greatest feats. Don't make problems when there is no problem.
     
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  24. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    One may infer that.

    Or one may simply infer that there are no exceptional, 40-year-old GOATs of longevity playing today.

    With the money in the game today, it's so much easier to retire in one's early 30s and coast on the winnings. Back then, players had to keep playing to try to earn a living.
     
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  25. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    OK, then.We just had some arguments regarding Newcombe but if you rate him according to his merit and record, it´s fine with me.
     
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  26. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, okay. Newcombe is an all-time great. There is no doubt.
     
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  27. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    OK, we´ll have a deal now
     
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  28. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I appreciate your readiness to correct yourself after a doubtful joke or statement. I wished other posters would behave similar.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
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  29. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I can´t see what is wrong of my joke, other than it is not brilliant.We surely have a different sense of humour.No big deal.
     
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  30. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, my praise for you obviously came too early. It's a pity...
     
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  31. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Bobby One: I´d like to know what is your opinion, feeling and taste about Newcombe and his place in his era.
     
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  32. rosewall4ever

    rosewall4ever Semi-Pro

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    incredible feat... i remember reading somewhere he'd do really early morning runs to keep in physical condition such that only the person would see him was the milkman!

    unfortunately by the time he reached the finals with connors he was absolutely spent and so he got shot to pieces. mind you connors would have been an infant when rosewall was already competively playing for aus:shock:
     
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  33. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    fact remains that kenny beat the two best grass courters of the first half of the 70´s, day in day out, Newcombe in the quarters and Stan Smith in the semifinals.Newcombe had beaten Rosewall in the 1970 and 1971 Wimbledon tourneys and Smith had beaten Rosewall in the 73 WCT Finals....
     
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  34. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Newcombe was capable of great heights but sometimes stayed under his true level. Thus he never emerged a clear number 1 in open era.
     
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  35. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Rosewall lost to Ashe in the 1973 Dallas finals.
     
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  36. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    You are right again my old friend.Smith beat Laver but not Rosewall.
     
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  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I agree.He was much more of a big match or big tournament player than a day to day player.That is what makes him a very interesting player, IMO.
     
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  38. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, my old friend, but Smith did beat Rosewall in the 1970 Masters, by the way shortly after Muscles had scored a sensational 6-2,6-2,6-2 win over Smith at the US Open.
     
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  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Newcombe is surely an all time great player.
     
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  40. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    and ken rosewall was aged 39 in both 1974 major finals he played..not 40.
     
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  41. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Connors, yes. Wilander, yes. Borg maybe.

    Sampras--what year? 1994 or 1995? Not that close.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
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  42. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    True.Rosewall beat Newcombe,Roche and Smith, the three best grass court players behind Laver and that is a huge US Open route in the 1970 championships.A tribute to his own greatness.

    Smith had big trouble returning the low bouncing and angled sliced returns from the Old Master and this was a big factor in their meetings, specially on fast surfaces.

    The 1970 Masters, yes, I had forgotten.I guess it was Smith,Kodes,Richey,Rosewall,Franulovic and Laver right?
     
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  43. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    And one of the three men ( Ashe and Mc Enroe the other two) that were able to beat Borg and Connors at a major final ever since 1974 till Bjorn´s retirement in 1982.The 1974 WCT Finals and the 1975 Australian Open final.
     
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  44. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Ashe instead of Richey is correct. Richey had been the winner of the Grand Prix but missed the Masters due to illness.
     
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  45. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    could be right on Sampras

    Borg won three of the big four of the 1979 and 1980 seasons, the Masters was clearly ahead of the AO and so were the WCT Finals.Close between Dallas and New York, though.
     
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  46. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    The Laver Backhand

    “Please step in and hit the [expletive] out of the ball.”

    "The Aussies survived those as well, and in November they flew to Cleveland, Ohio, for the [Davis Cup] final. It would be against a team that had run rampant in their absence: The U.S squad, led that year by Stan Smith and Tom Gorman, were the five-time defending Davis Cup champions.

    . . . That didn’t stop the Aussie and American singles players from putting on a classic, eight-hour, 10-set opening day. In the first match, Newcombe and Smith reprised their five-set Wimbledon final from two years earlier. The result was the same—a win for Newk, 6-4 in the fifth—but the tennis might have been even better. Smith led 3-1 in the final set, with a break point for 4-1, but he netted a forehand. In Bellamy’s words, “Newcombe fought back with the fury of a wounded but indomitable lion who knew he had to kill or be killed.” The match ended with a memorable anti-climax at 5-4: A net-cord winner for Newcombe at deuce, and a double fault by Smith on match point. “Such a superb match, such a brutal ordeal for body and mind, deserved a better finish,” Bellamy wrote.

    In the second match, Laver made sure there would be no fluke ending against Gorman. The 35-year-old Rocket lost the first set 10-8, and went down two sets to one, but won it going away.

    “For three sets,” Bellamy wrote, “this too was a fine match, bubbling with uncertainty in its richly contrasted patterns.”

    Over the final two sets, though, Gorman wilted; “something inside of him died in the heat of combat,” according to Bellamy. At the same time, Laver, that seasoned veteran of tennis crises, rose to the occasion.

    “Suddenly,” Bellamy said of the Rocket, “he was putting it all together and playing beautifully, like a poet who had been struggling to find a good line and had thought of a great one.”

    With the Aussies up 2-0, Fraser decided to go for the kill rather than rest his singles players. He thought that Laver and Newcombe were on a roll, they were fit enough to make the turnaround, and he liked the fact that they would confuse their opponents, Smith and Eric van Dillen, with their alternating righty and lefty serves. Of course, it wouldn’t be easy. The Americans hadn’t lost a Davis Cup doubles match in five years.

    “But,” Newcombe said, “as Rod and I told ourselves, they’d never had to play us.”

    As the Aussies walked on court, Newcombe asked Laver an innocent question: “Rocket, why not rip your backhand today? It makes me nervous serving to you, because your backhand return is so strong. So when the Yanks serve to you today, please step in and hit the [expletive] out of the ball.”

    Laver obliged. On the second point of the match, Newcombe looked at him and said, “‘Now’s the time. Belt this one back as hard as you can.’ Rod, who had the best poker face in tennis, said nothing. But the instant the ball left Stan’s racquet, he leaped forward four paces and performed the best backhand return I’ve ever seen. I couldn’t see a ball, just a blur.”

    The ball-blur was past the net man, Van Dillen, in a heartbeat. “His face sank,” Newcombe remembered, “as if to say, ‘I’m way out of my league here.’ ”

    Van Dillen was, and so were the Americans. Laver and Newcombe won 6-1, 6-2, 6-4 to clinch Australia’s first Davis Cup in six years."




    I love this story.
    from: http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/12/40-years-ago-lookout-cleveland/49914/#.UqiUkhZFsrx
     
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  47. Rosewall

    Rosewall Rookie

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    So why were so many tennis greats of the 50s and 60s able to have longer careers playing far more matches annually than players today without the benefit of modern nutrition and exercise physiology? Maybe this should be a separate topic.

    The first tennis match I ever saw on TV was the Laver Challenge at Caeser's in 1975 when I was 9. Rocket came out of retirement to take on Jimbo and got overpowered. But Connors said in his book that he was surprised Laver could extend that match at age 36. Should be noted that by Connors own admission, he was not playing as well in 75 as when he demolished Rosewall at Wimbledon the year before.

    Just my opinion, but Rosewall and Laver share a little bit with David Ferrer. They were smaller, super quick dudes that played inside the baseline to apply relentless pressure. What Rosewall and Laver had also were unbelievable hands that probably came from millions of matches and in Laver's case -- Popeye forearms. IMO, Rosewall had the best backhand slice (and best hands) of all time. It was so tight, he could subtly hook the slice down the line around an opponent covering the line or slice it away from an opponent charging the net. The accuracy and texture of that slice is freakish to watch on old videos. How would they fare today? If Ferrer is #4...
     
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  48. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    The answer is trifold: equipment, courts, and playing style ...

    1) Playing on lots more grass and dirt greatly reduces injury to the body

    2) Wood rackets greatly reduce the stress on the elbows and shoulders ( injury to the body )

    3) Lots more SV and allcourt play is much less stressful on the hip and knee joints and makes the points shorter, ie less side ways movement that man was not meant to travel, moving forward is natural ( reduces injury to the body )

    Agree ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
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  49. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Please don't think that, before the present era, pros did no exercise training and were in poor shape.



    From the article above--"But this wasn’t the same, hard Hopman who, in the words of Laver, had trained the Aussies “to run through a desert,” and who, according to Newcombe, would “go ape-sh*t” when he was two minutes late for curfew."
     
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  50. robow7

    robow7 Professional

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    It's true back then they didn't have EPO in those days to get their "crit" near 50 and didn't play 6 hour grind em out matches like Nadal-Djoker in the Aussie final.
     
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