Lead tape placement qns

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by TennisTypeR, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Well, you did add more to the head than you did to the handle. Overall, the lead at the handle counterbalances to keep the racket head light, while acting as a counterbalance and adding a bit more pop. If you want a more head light racket, you need to move the weight down, or add more weight to that area.

    But your rackets were on the lower end of the head light spectrum to begin with, no?
     
  2. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I use a 4 1/4 grip size. i replaced the syntech grip with the babolat "skin feel grip". and i add a "gamma grip2" overgrip over that. it ends up to be around 4 1/4 still if not slightly smaller. I strung the stick at 53 proior to adding the lead to gain some power. with the lead i think that is a bit low. im going to go to 55 or 56 and try that. i played 2 sets of singles and 3 sets of doubles on the leaded setup the past 2 days. the singles match was against an inferior player so i didnt work too hard but i did notice my balls were deepper than usual. about 3 inches from the baseline. my usual forehand stroke lands about 12 inches in. so against a tougher opponent i might need a bit of a stiffer string bed to give back my margin of error. I am pretty consistent so i am able to see the effects of equipement on my game. What i like about the lead is my apdc racket feels closer to the solid feel i got in the ps 6.0 85 I used in my college days. My main gripe with the stock apdc was the hollow feel at impact. i just wasnt used to that. i was really hesitant to lead up my racket because i just didnt want to bother tinkering. i am glad i did and it seemed to help my game. even my high backhand flick volleys seemed more solid. i will see if i need any adjustments after i play some longer and tougher matches. swinging the racket around definitely takes a bit more strength now. 3 sets in a touch match will reveal if im up for the new swing weight.
     
  3. rovision

    rovision Rookie

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    Thanks for your reply, xFull.

    What I forget to add to my previous post is that any leading will also increase the weight of the racquet. In this respect, a "light" stick will become heavier no matter where you add the lead. And, the S/W [swing weight] will change.
    The "feel" factor, I think is rather subjective. For myself, I prefer a medium weight stick [around 10.5-11oz.], but HL, since my strokes are rather compact. From all 15 sticks I've demoed so far, maybe 3-4 would qualify as something with a good "feel" for myself.

    I was mentioning that my current stick, Volkl V1 Quantum Mid, is what I'm aiming at. Last night I checked the "real" specs [1/2 grip, I use a thin Yonnex overgrip, and a small two strings vib absorber] , strung weight at 10.8oz/305gr., HL 4 points. The only issue I have with this setup is that when hitting sliced drop shots or volleys, the head flips over. I guess some lead at 3/9 would improve this aspect.
    In my recent testing I came across the Fischer M Pro1 98 [TW specs strung weight:11.8oz, s/w:317, 7 HL]. I was able to hit serves that had a lot of bounce and precision, even on my first serve which is rather flat. I loved this aspect and I'm trying now to see if I can replicate it in my V.

    To achieve this, I've added 10gr. of lead at the 7" mark on the handle. That brought the total weight to 11oz/315gr. and the HL is now 5.5. I'll see what happens.
     
  4. obnoxious2

    obnoxious2 Semi-Pro

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    Reading the 1st page and it seems people have missed to answer the main point of your question. Why do we chooose specific places say in the hoop to add lead as opposed to all around...I choose to add lead mainly closer to the 12 spot. The reason being I like my sweetspot just very slightly higher than dead center. And where you add more lead in the hoop, the sweetspot will move that way. This is why Sampras adds all his lead at 3&9 because he volleys so much, he wants a wider sweetspot. What you have to keep in mind is that the sweetspot won't expand when you add lead, it simply moves in the direction you add lead.
     
  5. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    xFullCourtTenniSx


    First of all I want to thank you for taking all the useless information out of other posts and making a easy to understand post for the rest of us.

    Been playing 35 years, USTA team player at 3.5 and play club level 4.0. I am very aggressive, still come to the net sometimes and play to win. I am 62 years old.

    After looking for the right racket for years, I own about 14 different racquets by Head, and using lead tape on all my racquets, 8 grams total at at 3 and 9 and 12 grams at the bottom of the handle. For some reason this made the racquets feel better to me.

    About 2 months ago I bought a Wilson 6.1 16X18 and is was exactly what I was looking for. The problem became my first experience with tennis elbow and I had to quit using it and do 6 weeks of rehab.

    Ordering 16 demo racquets from Tennis Warehouse I found the best one for me which is the Tecnifibre VO Max 320.

    Head Size:
    95 sq. in. / 613 sq. cm.
    Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
    Strung Weight: 12.1oz / 343g strung
    Balance: 7pts Head Light
    Swingweight: 326
    Stiffness: 68
    Beam Width: 22 mm Straight Beam


    Would you please suggest how I should customize them. I have a short swing and usually have problems with getting the ball deep. I hit somewhat flat but have been changing my grip to more western and using more spin.

    Thank you for your help.

    Fred
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  6. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Being 62, I hesitate to recommend anything. I think the reason the [K]Six.One 95 (18x20) gave you elbow problems was because of the stiffness.

    If you must add lead, try 4-6 grams at 3&9 and maybe another 4 under the grip around 7' above the buttcap. That should give you extra depth and stability, and will help a lot when volleying. If it's not enough, add on to that 1 gram at a time.

    Also, stringing looser helps with depth, which is the simplest way to go.
     
  7. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    Man, that hurt! I am a young 62! Anyway thanks for the help and all of your great information. I am strung low.
    So only 8-10 grams of weight? Seems like very little or is that enough to make a difference?
     
  8. ahile02

    ahile02 Rookie

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    I added 3 grams at 12 and 3 under the buttcap door on my Speed Pros. Going out and hitting, I noticed a few things:

    1. My kick serves had incredibly more hop and spin.

    2. My groundstrokes were much much heavier, with added pace and spin making balls just drop before the baseline, and even if I hit a ball short enough around the service line, it still was heavy and fast enough to be able to keep my coach from attacking. The increased weight helped reinforce and force me to keep a relaxed arm and correct mechanics.

    3. Serving just seemed easier in general.

    4. The racquet definetely feels somewhat heavier. Just from an estimate (Speed Pro without leather grip, babolat syntec grip instead, Wilson pro overgrip, dampener, with 3 grams at 12 at 3 under the buttcap), I'd guess my racquets must weight around 12.5 ounces(?).

    I'm really liking it so far. I have been searching for a customization best suited to hitting a really heavy ball (I felt that, before I customized my racquet, that my shots were a bit too spinny and not enough pace to make them heavy). The lead at 12 seemed to add sufficient pace to make my spinny shots more heavy and powerful.

    I kinda want to try 10 & 2, and 3 & 9; however I remember some advice a poster gave me on here saying that once you start experimenting with lead tape, that you should find the setup you like and stick with it, otherwise you'll be on a never-ending cycle of experimentation.
     
  9. (K)evin

    (K)evin Rookie

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    what happens if you were to use lead @ 12 on the racquet head but instead of lead in the buttcap to polarize it, you add lead to the top of the handle (7" above)???
     
  10. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    I worry for your health. And 8-10 grams can make a rather huge difference. Though what weight are you normally used to for your rackets? If you're used to like... 13+ ounce wood rackets, you won't notice it as much as if you use a Wilson super oversize.

    You'd get a noticeable power boost and it'll feel quite a bit heavier than it should. Stability won't be as great, but if you started out with a stable stick that's not a major issue. I daresay it'll be quite a big power boost actually. Depends on how much you add and whether you can handle the final product.
     
  11. ArchEtech

    ArchEtech New User

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    XFullCourt....

    I recently decided to start using a more "player" style racquet. I started the demo process with a Pure Drive ( too stiff ) then an ozone tour ( too mushy ) and ended up with a Kobra tour. The Kobra inspired my interest in customizing racquets but ultimately lacket enough pop and not enough weight behind the ball, though after adding .6 1" above the butt cap and .2 between 3,9 (.1 each side ) it did improve enough to my liking; however my hitting partner loved it after my customization and demanded I sell it. I was less in love with it ( but did like it ) and ultimately wanted to start with a heavier more neutral base frame to work with.

    I picked up an Ignite team with traditional grommets fitted with a leather grip and thin overgrip. It weighed in at 11.7 oz and balanced at about 13 1/8 or so maybe a couple points head light. The stock specs if I remember correctly are 11.1 1pt head light and a 334 swing. Before I had even hit with it I put .6oz at the butt and .2 at 7" bringing the weight to 12.3oz. The thing hit like a total dud. It was already had a much heavier swing weight than the kobra being much less head light at a similar weight but unlike the kobra adding weight to the butt did NOT work. What I have done using the information in this thread is elected to put 8.5 grams at 7.1" ( just where the grip tapers ) and none in the butt. I had pulled the grip tight ( leather ) to make it feel less bulky with the overgrip on top which took about .1 off. The stick played 10x better. More stable, more plow, tons more spin on serve and I would expect more on groundstrokes as well but I'm still getting used to using a 12 oz stick. The final specs and measurements came out at:

    12.0 w/ leather, overgrip, and dampener
    Balance: 12-7/8" which is about 5 pts head light
    Swing weight not sure but not much different.
    Strings are luxion power / bab xl @ 55 though (probably @ 50-52 now)

    With racquet stock it was just slightly polarized but much less so thn the 10pt head light Kobra Tour, and I made just a tad more polarized with the leather grip and weight at 7.1" with the plan of playing with weight around 3,9 or more at grip top or throat to depolarize it sightly as I go and keep the head around this 5 pts light. I figure as I get used to the heft I can increase the swing weight just a bit with weight at 3,9 and counter balance if I need to to keep the blance point similar until I'm getting close to 12.5 oz total. Does my reasoning sound correct? I really like the way it feels now and still can't believe how much of a dud on power and feel it became with the weight in the
    butt!

    1) Is my evaluation and customization plan correct and if not why should I try keeping in mind my goal of 12-12.5 more of a players racquet with a balance of spin and plow-thru?

    2) Why in the case of the Kobra Tour did the racquet not lose as much power and pop with most of the weight added to the butt? ( or maybe it really did and I didn't like I as much which is why I think I've settled on the ignite). I will say the Kobra set up does plow through much better than stock bit isn't nearly as stable on miss hits or againts a heavy ball. It's a bit better on spin but not with seves so I think my lack of as much spin with the ignite is just due to a new racquet and getting used to a higher swing weight.

    Kobra:
    11.8 oz
    9 pts headlight
    Gamma stinger @ 60

    thanks for the info!

    swing weight not sure ( much less than ignite )
    gamma stinger 16/17 @ 60
     
  12. rovision

    rovision Rookie

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    Another issue with this customization process is related to the "official" specs shown on TW. I don't know where they come from, but from my comparisons, they are not close to reality. But, if you look in the TW University section and look for "similar racquets to..." you'll find actual tested specs.

    As such, no matter what the you demo, you have to actually weigh and measure the stick you test. Then, using the customization calculator, you can find how much customization a racquet can take.

    For ex. I have at home a Volkl PB 4 and the Prince EXO3 Red. The measured specs differ quite a bit from the "official" specs. For the PB4 though, my measurements are very close to the TW specs as shown in the comparison tool [dynamic option]. Being a light stick at 10.1oz., 316 S/W and 3 HL, there's plenty of room to add weight and achieve more HL, and/or increased S/W.
    For the EXO 3 though, at 10.7oz. and 339 S/W, with 0 HL, not much that you can do. Unless you are willing to go to over 12oz. and a hefty S/W. As it is, at 0 HL, I found it rather hard to move around, but fairly good on serves, generating some sizable spin.
     
  13. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    after 5 days with my apdc setup with 9 at 12 and 2 in the butt cap I have taken all the lead off. My 42 year old body could not heft the weight of the racket for 3 gruelling sets of singles. the 3rd set my arms were dead... too heavy to swing around. My first set was amazing but at the third I just lost all timing because I couldn't get the racket around fast enough.
     
  14. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Best customization story I've heard in my life! Haha.

    Your plan is pretty solid. If you feel like you can handle a little more weight, then add a little more until playability drops or you feel you can't handle it. A goal of 12.5 ounces is pretty solid, but your ideal weight might be above or below that. Once you find something that REALLY feels good, stick with it, because if you change it you might not remember what you did originally. Haha. It happens to some people.

    And while you added a lot of weight in the butt of the [K]obra, you added some at the head too, so the effects weren't so bad. Adding lead into the butt is only REALLY bad when that's all you do to the racket. It pulls the "sweet spot" down pretty far.

    Quality control failures ftl. :(

    Thankfully for me, my rackets came out almost exactly like they were supposed to, so I never really had too many problems personally with quality control issues and differing specifications. Granted, my latest batch of K90s seems to have some added weight in the head (they're a few grams heavier as well as a point or two more head heavy). Though they still play very well when I lead them up to my current weight specs.

    That's a shame... I was going to ask you if I could borrow your racket to play the high school JV kids lefty and whoop their asses Nadal style. Haha.

    Do you try to muscle the ball, or do you let the racket do the work for you? I remember the first time I used a heavily polarized setup, I really muscled the ball (which I didn't think I did). I loosened up and let the racket do the work and the racket became a perfect weapon with very little effort on my part. Muscling the ball, I was done after 20-30 minutes. After I loosened up, I could go hours nonstop with that setup.
     
  15. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I have good form so I was letting the racket work. But I played yesterday with a kid just out of college who played div 1 singles and I lost the third set pretty bad. I'm 42 and played #3 singles for a DIV 1 college in Southern CA 20+ years ago, and I was a top singles player at high school as well. Usually these days I play guys my age or older who play 4.5 or 5.0 in league play and I can keep up with them easily even with the leaded racket like I did the first few days I did the racket up. But yesterday due to the pace of the kids balls and the length of the rallies I just wore down. He was not as consistent as me but he just blasted every ball. And I hit pretty damn hard. I was on the defensive a lot. We split sets 6-4 (me), 4-6, then he destroyed me the 3rd set. 6-2. I could barely swing my racket the third set. That extra 11 grams made a huge difference. I really felt my age... :cry:
     
  16. Frankauc

    Frankauc Professional

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    it may be because you put 9 grams of lead at 12. It must have made the SW really high!
     
  17. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Well... if you hold 9 grams in your hand its nothing. And Nadal plays like that.:) And.... and... I really had no business adding that much weight. lol. Maybe after I recover my arm I'll put in half the lead. 4.5 grams at 12 and 1 in the buttcap.

    sucks getting old.
     
  18. mmaster

    mmaster Semi-Pro

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    so if i want to increase the weight of my racquet without changing the balance/head light pt., then i should determine the center point of the racquet and apply lead tape around there, right?
     
  19. Marcus

    Marcus Semi-Pro

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    Hi I have a question for the Good Doctor....

    I've added lead to my Wilson pro staff 6.0 95 original (starting weight 349g)

    I've added a full layer of lead right around the hoop (well 2 full layers one either side of the string bed) and a 6 inch strip (both sides) at 3&9 The final weight is 397g

    I like the results..... so much stability and my backhand especially is smoking..... I'm guessing nearly 50g of lead in the hoop of a racket that's 10 points head light will make a significant difference to the balance !

    First question..... approximately what will the racket's balance be now ?

    Next question.... would I have been better advised to add some weight to the handle as well ? I think beyond 400g i would start to feel the weight to the point where it would hurt my game (i'm coping ok with the racket's weight just now....

    would say..... 30g in the hoop and 20g near the handle be a better option ?

    Is there anything "wrong" with adding 50 to the hoop of a racket like the PS95 ?

    Thanks very much
    Mark
     
  20. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    Does it matter how long the lead tape is? I can buy lead tape in the golf store which weighs twice as much as tennis tape so it is shorter. Does it matter at 3 and 9 in the hoop how long the tape is. Given the same weight, is 2 inches long better then 1 inch long? Does it matter if you stay inside the hoop near the strings or can you wrap from inside to out side. Any difference?
     
  21. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Well... Playing up always makes you tired. Haha. And if we include you being well after your peak days, then yes you were playing up.

    I normally handle my K90 very well, but I was dead after a few points against some good players. Why? Well they pretty much made me do too much physically every point. Then again... My arm never really felt any fatigue... It was all the lungs. Haha. So I guess I should be referring to a real doctor or a fitness trainer on fixing that. :)

    If you like the setup, and it's helping you against people you're normally competing with, you should be okay. But yeah, you might want to start with a little less and build up to it.

    Theoretically yes, but you can increase the power and stability far more efficiently if you use it in the head and some in the handle. There's no real point to keeping the headlight balance (or worse, making it more headlight) if you're adding weight.

    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customizationReverse.php

    That should tell you everything your setup did, more or less.

    If you feel good with it, don't mess with it. If it's not broken, why fix it right?

    In terms of swinging it faster, distributing the weight a bit more would help. Haha. But like I said before, you can always get away with adding weight just to the head, and if it's not broken, why fix it?

    If it's not broken... You know the rest. :)

    Well... If you want to hide it under the bumperguard, then yes it matters how long it is. Otherwise, no it doesn't matter. Pros used varying lengths of lead on their rackets. Some layered it, some didn't. Some kept it short and layered, some kept it long and layered it (sometimes with decreasing lengths in the upper layers or the same lengths).

    Answered the golf tape question in your thread already...

    Already answered the length question (shorter means it's easier to slowly add weight though). Personally I like length though. It's easier to see, and your opponent will either be like "Oh wtflip?! What's that?!" or "HOLY SH*T! THIS GUY'S PRO!!" Hehe. "Image is everything."

    And there is a difference wrapping the lead around the sides... Stick to layering it on the inside of the frame like you see with professional rackets. If you can't see any pros with lead on their rackets, look back to the 90s with people like Sampras clearly using lead (and heavy amounts as well). People have wrapped the lead successfully, but first time YOU try it, I bet you'll screw up and have to take it off during stringing because the lead was blocking the string. Overall, stick to layering it on the inside of the frame!
     
  22. mmaster

    mmaster Semi-Pro

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    thanks for the answers. for putting it on the handle, can i just put it just above where my overgrip ends (where you tape the grip to the racquet)? i just put on a new overgrip and don't want to remove it to put the lead underneath.
     
  23. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Sucks to think as my peak days are WAYYY behind me. :) time marches on. :cry:
    I better learn a wicked lob!!!!!!
     
  24. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    You could... But I like it under the grip, since people can't see it. Haha.

    Nah dude. Nobody needs a wicked lob! Learn the wicked slice! :twisted: Make them bend those knees! Then again... You could learn both, which would be a great investment for the next decade or two. Once you hit 60, they probably won't bother to get half of them, or you can make them dance if they do go for it! I can see it now... Left-up! Right-down! Forward lunge! Backpedal! Left-up! Left-down! Now turn around! Good! Now 23 more repetitions and you're done for the set! :twisted:
     
  25. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    F:)ullCOURTTENNIS,can you help me and answer me a few questions as well?
    That's the racquet i want to load it up to 366g.
    Head Size:
    93 sq. in. / 600 sq. cm.
    Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
    Strung Weight: 12.2oz / 346g
    Balance: 8pts Head Light
    Swingweight: 330
    Stiffness: 60
    Beam Width: 19 mm Straight Beam
    After giving you the specs,my questions come:
    I want to keep the balance or raise it to 9 P HL,if possible.
    Every time i add lead i increase the swing weight right?Where i increase less SW is around the handle and therefore get more maneuverability,right?

    Adding all that 20g of Lead Tape,where my swing weight will go to,in numbers and calculations, if put 8g at 3 o'clock and 8g at 9 o'clock,and 4g either at 6,or throat or at 7" from the butt cap.What would be the benefits?

    Is this a good distribution of weight? Or, as i want to keep the balance i should distribute the weight more equally in order to keep the balance ,right?

    What would be your suggestion about this customization i want to do?
    If i wanted more spin:

    i Have another racquet that it's weight was 340 and i added 5g at 3o'clock, 5g at 9 o'clock and 6g at 6o'clock.How can i optimize this distribution?Just adding a few more grams to 7'' from the butt cap?It's not as maneuverable as i wanted.

    Thanks a lot Lead Tape PHD Physics Professor!:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2009
  26. steve728

    steve728 Rookie

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    I found this to be quite true! I have some silicone in the handle but most of the weight at the top of the handle (~7" from buttcap) with only 2 grams at 12 o'clock. That little bit at the top (along with the weight on the handle) gave a BIG power boost. Maybe a little too much --- but I want to first try it with a good poly for more control. I was just using a regular syn gut at a slightly lower tension. (Pro Supex Spiral Flex). Prior, I was playing no lead in the hoop.

    My set up with 2g at the top was a great static weight and felt great swinging without strings. But once I strung it up, it felt a tad sluggish. I may move some of the weight from the top of the handle down about 2" from the buttcap to give it more of the true polarized set up.

    (BTW, I like the more polarized set up. Never really had success with lead at 9 and 3 o'clock. And as for stock frames, really like the K90, which is more polarized.)

    This thread has lots of great tips and feedback.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2009
  27. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    I sense a Head Prestige of some sort! I am being filled up with jealousy for you and your CAP grommets! Seriously though, I've become increasingly obsessed with the idea of hiding the lead on my frames, so CAP grommets are idea for this. I like my jobs to look professional, as I am slightly OCD (and a perfectionist, which kind of tears at me on the court when I miss a few), like many others in the world.

    Well, sadly there is no way to add weight and increase maneuverability. You can increase the feeling of it, but in the end, increased swingweight means lowered maneuverability. And unless you know you're nearing your limit in terms of swingweight and static weight, meaning you JUST got used to the weight of your racket and can't swing it like a twig, you shouldn't be afraid of increases in swingweight. Usually people can handle it. Though I understand that age is a rather huge hurdle.

    And trust me dude, if you're afraid of creating an unweildy stick, you don't want that much lead in the head. 16 grams is a little over half an ounce! And it increases the swingweight by 30 units!

    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customizationReverse.php

    According to that, your new balance is 5 points headlight, and the swingweight is 363.

    You might want something with a little less in the head. 8 grams total (at 3&9) should add quite a bit to start without such a drastic change in swingweight (347) and balance (7 points headlight). But that was without an increase of the lead at the handle (still at 4 grams). If we increase that to 12 grams, we get a swingweight of 348 and a balance of 8 points headlight. So yes, you might want a more even distribution of weight. I mean, if you could handle all that extra weight, by all means use it. You'll probably get more pop and a lot more stability.

    If you want added spin, are we talking heavy amounts, or just a little? If only a little, a depolarized setup is fine. If you want a lot, better to use 4 8 inch strips of 1/4 width tape at 12 (totaling 8 grams) with 4 inch strips at 3&9 (totaling 4 grams; for stability, you don't really need this for anything else) and 8 grams in the buttcap. The result is a swingweight of 366 (approximately) as well as a 7 points headlight balance - essentially the Safin setup, only I'm guessing lighter and with counterbalance (Safin is too beastly for counterbalance apparently).

    And the reason your other setup isn't that maneuverable is because you have 12 grams of added weight in the head. That's a lot of weight my friend! No amount of counterbalance lead can fix that.

    You might want to start with a gradual buildup, with say 3 grams at 3 and 3 grams at 9, then add .5 grams to each side if you need more.
     
  28. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Tell me, do you use flat groundstrokes? I'd imagine the flatter your groundstrokes, the bigger the power boost, while the spinnier the groundstrokes, the greater the spin boost. Though with the lead on the handle, I think I would favor the flat hitter more.

    I have a friend who hits really flat, who since he doesn't always bring his rackets (n95 18c), borrowed the racket of a friend who's rackets I customized for him to generate a little more spin for him (k95 18c; 340 g unstrung). He seemed to like it a lot. The thing is, I don't remember if he hit harder. I know for a fact he liked the feel and was hitting more consistently. Though I must admit, that k95 was one of my less successful works due to less room for customization. He wanted the same specs as another racket I made that had a static weight of 12.5 grams and a swingweight of around 360. Sadly, it's a bit difficult to produce that when you can only add about 8 grams to the racket as opposed to 12 in the head and 20 in the buttcap (the numbers were somewhere around there). At the very least, none of the added lead was visible, so that was a victory I can take from a minor defeat. I should probably ask him if he wants some follow up work done on his rackets though. I admit I got a bit lazy on his rackets, mainly because he was rather picky (which is a good thing if you know how to tell the racket technician what you want), I did it for free, and we didn't really get enough court time. Plus I was a relative noobie at the time, and believed so strongly in counterbalancing. Imagine how I felt when I found out Nadal only uses 2 grams in the buttcap and Federer uses none while I believed so strongly that the counterbalance in the buttcap must be AT LEAST what was added to the head... Boy was I wrong back then... If you use an incredibly light racket, you have the luxury of being able to do that though, for the headlight balance.
     
  29. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    Thanks FULLCOURTTENNIS:
    Well the racquet was a BB 11 mid.The other was a DNX 10 7 HL as it came now i don't know.
    I really like the weight of it,the punch,the stability unlike the BB 11 mid.
    I can handle, i guess 350,360 SW.
    But i do want to add 20g of Lead tape and optimize the weight as its most.
    I have those swing weight by Unique that come in "H" shape weighing 3g each.
    Would this change your answer from the previous one?
    thanks

    Also what is the measure that equals 7 points HL?
    Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
    Strung Weight: 12oz / 340g
    Balance: 7pts Head Light
    Swingweight: 331
    Stiffness: 58
    How can i calculate the new balance and SW for these measures with 6G at 6,and 10g divided equaly at 3 and 9.
    I tried to use the TW chart but i didn't know the balance other than 7 HL,which doesn't work.
    thanks once and again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2009
  30. ahile02

    ahile02 Rookie

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    XxFullcourt,
    Doesn't counterbalacing after adding weight to hoop allow the racquet to still maintain manuverability? Or is it just unnecessary?
     
  31. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    8 points headlight=1 inch headlight, therefore 1 point headlight=1/8 inch headlight.

    I recommend against using Unique's lead weights. Granted they aren't that bad, but when you want total control over how much weight you're adding, a cooler and more professional look, and generally just avoiding the weights falling off, stick with Gamma lead tape (1/4 inch width is the best).

    Dang, no Prestige?! You make my heart cry... Haha. Seriously if it weren't for the grip and me already committed to my K90, I would so totally be all over the Prestige line of rackets! I'd either use the pro or the midsize depending on whether I like the 18x20 string pattern or not. I'd probably end up being more of a Safin fan as well, and would probably try his setup (though I'd probably end up with a polarized setup anyways).
     
  32. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Actually, like it was stated before, adding weight does move the "sweet spot" of a racket, so counterbalancing essentially moves it back down after you move it up.

    However, it is more often than not unnecessary (or requires rather minimal amounts of weight added). Though if you want to add power but can't handle the big swingweight jump, moving some of the weight from the head to the counterbalance location will help give a little extra pop while keeping swingweight manageable.

    It really depends on the setup, but bottom line you can get away with weight in the head alone, but you can't get away doing it the other way around (ie. placing lead only in counterbalance areas like the handle and the buttcap, unless you got lucky with the racket you did it with).

    I'm still learning a few things too now and then, so if I learn something new, I'll try to keep you guys posted, but best bet is to keep asking questions should I forget. At this point, I don't think anything I've already said will hurt your setups or create a bad racket should I learn that doing something else is better to do later. I mean, it's not like I've told you to do something clearly bad for the racket like put weight purely in the handle. Counterbalancing isn't bad unless it's counterbalancing nothing.
     
  33. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    hehe,no Prestige,the DNX 10 has an exquisite feel,stability,much better than the BB 11 mid in MHO,so i want to test with the weight being almost the same and take my final analogy.The BB 11 mid was impressive on serve only,but on ground strokes i just didn't trust that racket at all.
    But I am getting a couple RDS 001 mid soon as they are cheap.
    K90 is probably the best 90 size ever made,but Yonex,Fischer have great quality control,and great rackets that fits me better,but you can never say no.
    I Liked Safin too,but maybe 4 ,5 years ago when he was good,but my favorites were always Sampras and Roger.
    I actually have some Gamma lead 1/4,and they way i did with the Unique "H" was: i put them first,then i put the Gamma on the top,so it looks sharp,almost imperceptible,only at 6 o clock people can see.
    On the Becker mid i will add first 5g each at 3 and 9,and follwoing your advice 8g at 7",right?
    I really want a heavy racquet up to my limit,so then after sometime i can get used to it,and after-wards i become better tennis player.
     
  34. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Sweet thread. It's been said before but I'll say it again.

    My question is how much does adding a thick leather grip add weight to a racquet when you're replacing your typical cushion grip? I've got an AG100 on the way and I wanna bring it up to about least 12.3 ounces and 9 pts headlight. Thinking of lead at 3/9 as well.
     
  35. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Sadly, I have no information on grip weights other than the fact that a Wilson Pro Overgrip adds approximately 4 grams.

    I'm sure someone has put up a thread on it. Try the search function? :wink:

    If I were to guess, it's probably around an 8 gram difference. 6 maybe. I think leather grips are around 20 grams? But if you get a thick one, it's bound to weigh more.

    The good thing is that when you replace a synthetic grip with a leather grip, you probably won't notice the weight difference. :)
     
  36. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    xFullCourtTenniSx (or should that be Dr Lead Tape!? :roll:),

    Just read in another thread your thoughts on Safin's lead tape locations etc (interesting), and was simply wondering if you know or could make an educated guess as to Novak's lead tape locations/amounts of LT?...

    Basically, I, too, very much like the template of (and am on a bit of a mission actually looking for frames with this as a general spec guide): lowish stiffness, highish SW, decent static weight, very sofy, flexy, feel, plus big hitting oomph...

    So, any notions on Novak's lead tape usage?... or thoughts on modding up in general as it relates to frames with, to be a bit more specific, approx 60 or below stiffness, 12 - 12.6 oz strung static weight, 330 - 350 SW, buttery soft feeling, has to boom big from the b-line and on serve)?

    Many thanks,

    R.
     
  37. ArchEtech

    ArchEtech New User

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    My prince leather grip was .8 oz
    The Gamma overgrip was .2 oz



    Both weighed on a letter scale.
     
  38. ArchEtech

    ArchEtech New User

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    Quote from: XFullCourtTenniSx

    "Best customization story I've heard in my life! Haha.

    Your plan is pretty solid. If you feel like you can handle a little more weight, then add a little more until playability drops or you feel you can't handle it. A goal of 12.5 ounces is pretty solid, but your ideal weight might be above or below that. Once you find something that REALLY feels good, stick with it, because if you change it you might not remember what you did originally. Haha. It happens to some people.

    And while you added a lot of weight in the butt of the [K]obra, you added some at the head too, so the effects weren't so bad. Adding lead into the butt is only REALLY bad when that's all you do to the racket. It pulls the "sweet spot" down pretty far."

    I added another .25 oz into the butt, and left the .3 at 7", only spread it out between about 6-7" mark thus moving it down a tad.

    I also added .1 at 12 to counter slightly. I'll see how hit hits, then start adding to 3-9 or 10-2

    Its static weight was increased to 12.3 but it doesn't feel any heavier swinging it. I'm hoping that this time with more weight at 7" and a tad at 12 it won't feel so dead with a bit in the butt cap. I wouldn't think .2oz in the but with .1 at the other end would kill power too much and give it a little more head light polarized feel that I'm used to without being to much so.
     
  39. ArchEtech

    ArchEtech New User

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    Quote from: XFullCourtTenniSx

    "Best customization story I've heard in my life! Haha.

    Your plan is pretty solid. If you feel like you can handle a little more weight, then add a little more until playability drops or you feel you can't handle it. A goal of 12.5 ounces is pretty solid, but your ideal weight might be above or below that. Once you find something that REALLY feels good, stick with it, because if you change it you might not remember what you did originally. Haha. It happens to some people.

    And while you added a lot of weight in the butt of the [K]obra, you added some at the head too, so the effects weren't so bad. Adding lead into the butt is only REALLY bad when that's all you do to the racket. It pulls the "sweet spot" down pretty far."


    I added another .25 oz into the butt, and left the .3 at 7", only spread it out between about 6-7" mark thus moving it down a tad.

    I also added .1 at 12 to counter slightly. I'll see how hit hits, then start adding to 3-9 or 10-2

    Its static weight was increased to 12.3 but it doesn't feel any heavier swinging it. I'm hoping that this time with more weight at 7" and a tad at 12 it won't feel so dead with a bit in the butt cap. I wouldn't think .2oz in the but with .1 at the other end would kill power too much and give it a little more head light polarized feel that I'm used to without being to much so.
     
  40. ahile02

    ahile02 Rookie

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    +1 10 chars
     
  41. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Well, his specs are 360 grams and swingweight of 370. And according to Greg Raven's site, the balance is 32 cm. Not quite sure if he uses standard length though. But that's what? 8 points headlight if it's standard length? (assuming my calculations are correct, but since they don't include any significant figures past 2, I can't be sure.) And it also depends on the base racket you use. Also, I'm guessing there's quite a bit of lead under the bumber, looking at the swingweight. So it might be a setup similar to Safin's, but with counterbalance weight added.

    Anybody know what's under his paintjob? I've never really paid much attention to Novak. I only know Safin's because I looked him up on these forums recently and found pictures in another thread.
     
  42. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    ^^^^

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=295914&page=4

    According to some it's an old Rad Tour, or a PT630, or an LM Rad Tour, etc. I now agree with vsbabolat in the thread ^ that it's probably a modern Rad mold with obviously his own lay up, customization specs, etc... as you can see, this has been discussed at great length.

    The thing I love and really gets me (and to some extent I would like to mimic it), is his frame hits a massive sledgehammer-hard ball and yet with its supposed 51 stiffness RA feels like a fluffy pillow!

    R.
     
  43. Djoker_69

    Djoker_69 Rookie

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    im tryin to make my yt rad pro more stable at the head without adding to much weight...do you recommend this for me
     
  44. (K)evin

    (K)evin Rookie

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    another question xFullCourtTenniSx sorry to keep bugging you but you know a lot about lead tape.

    I'm currently using a a polarized K90 with 8 grams of lead at 12 and 3 in the buttcap. where would I put lead tape if I wanted the same spin I'm getting with lead on 12 but want just a tad bit more stability?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  45. steve728

    steve728 Rookie

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    xFullCourt,
    I hit relatively flat, I suppose, with moderate to high amounts topspin. I'm definitely not a wristy, heavy topspin player. I try to play a more all-court game. I have recently moved my grip size down to a 4 1/4 with overgrip, from a 4 3/8 with overgrip. I'm finding a bit more spin.

    BTW, I always thought I had a SW grip. But the other day, my friend saw my grip and said it was more Eastern, or actually between the two. It's funny because I try to model my forehand after Federer's. I just came across a Tennis article from last year analyzing Fed's forehand and it says he uses this hybrid type of grip.

    All this to say that I hit somewhat flat but like to accelerate through the ball with a Federer like motion. Perhaps that's why I'm gravitating toward the more polar setup with lead. Of course, his swing is pure poetry in motion. While mine is chunky prose.

    Would moving some lead down from the top of the handle to a lower part of the grip be the answer for "more maneuverability" or should I take a gram off the top (only 2g there now)?
     
  46. lilxjohnyy

    lilxjohnyy Hall of Fame

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    hey steve728.... i am the same as you,moderate to high topspin and relatively flat. Slightly more baseline game but definitely have some all court play. Looking for some customization tips as well. Thinking about adding lead at 10/2 because i loved it for my LM prestige mid but found it not necessary for MG. now im thinking about adding it there again. Not sure if i should add some weight to the handle tho...
     
  47. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    High topspin and flat? Please tell me your secrets...
     
  48. lilxjohnyy

    lilxjohnyy Hall of Fame

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    i hit with moderate to relatively highish topspin when rallying... but when im trying to drive the ball for a winner, i hit it quite flat
     
  49. steve728

    steve728 Rookie

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    Right, lilxjohnyy, I'm the same. Maybe has something to do with our racquets (Prestige mid) or at least, our preference for that type of racquet. BTW, I usually don't like the lead on at 10 and 2. I feel like I lose some control when swinging. I've been liking a little bit of lead at 12 a bit better.

    Storm -- no secret. Maybe I wasn't clear in my description. When I think of a relatively flat forehand with a good dose of topspin, I think of Federer's forehand, especially when he goes for that winner. To me, the ball trajectory is relatively flat (as compared to a more loopy shot). I consider the Nadal-type of forehand (with Western or extreme Western grip) to be a loopy, dipping forehand with incredible amounts of topspin. When I playtested the APDC, I found myself switching my grip more western and having to brush up/whip the ball, in order to keep the ball in. Very loopy. I imagine a flat forehand with little to moderate amounts of spin to be something more of the classic groundstroke.

    Maybe part of it has to do with the Mid size racquet with a denser string pattern --- I also primarily use a Prestige Mid mold. You can still get really good spin on the ball, but the smaller headshape kinda forces/allows me to hit a more "flatter" stroke. Definitely not flat, like an ol' Jimmy Connors groundstoke. But with a whip/windshield wiper finish.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2009
  50. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    No. Stability requires lead at 3&9, no where else matches it.

    Follow Safin's lead - slap some lead at 3&9. That's what I did and it worked rather well.

    Both would increase maneuverability. Personally though, I'd just move the counterbalance weight. The reason is because usually the weight in the head is far more influential on the kind of shot you hit than anything else when you add weight.

    Don't know what to say about high, flat, topspin ball... Perhaps you mean a topspin drive? Try lead around the top of the hoop, from 10 to 2. You can hide this under the bumper if you want. With this, you'll get a little extra spin and pop. If that becomes a little unstable, try adding lead to 3&9 after. That's what Safin does, and he hits very flat and sometimes with somewhat moderate high topspin (moderate for pros). At this point, I'm kind of itching to try out his setup, but I've no rackets left to test with, every racket I have is already modded perfectly to my liking. Plus, I have no prestige mid. :cry: I wish prestige rackets could go on sale, but they never do.

    Learn to hit like Roger? :wink:

    I think most people do that. Haha.
     

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