Lean Gainer vs.Protein-only Supplementation

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by 007, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. 007

    007 Professional

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    I weight train 4 x week for 45 min to 1 hour to lose bodyfat, tone and generally improve my physique. Am 5'9, 180 lbs, 18% body fat and also play 2-4 hrs tennis a week. I take a good multi, glutamine, fish oil and CLA daily. Also consume about 120-140 grams of whey protein isolate and concentrate between morning and bedtime. I've been following this regime for the last 6-8 weeks and have gotten very good results. I believe I am in a slight caloric deficit or close to even at the end of the day.

    Question: if my goal is to continue to build lean mass (but not get 'big') and lose body fat, should I stick to my current supplementation plan or switch to (or add) a lean gainer to the mix?

    Thanks

    Also: any point in trying a thermogenic?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2008
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  2. ATXtennisaddict

    ATXtennisaddict Hall of Fame

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    don't use gainers. sounds like you're exercising right, have a good diet going...stick to it.

    maybe throw in thermogenics if you want. that's what i'm doing now.

    in fact, you have almost the same exact description of me for everything you rwote. I am also 5'9", 180, lift weights 3-4 times a week, play tennis, got my diet down, fish oils,multivits etc.
     
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  3. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    Are you doing cardio as well? Thermogenics don't sound too healthy but that's just me. I would suggest you throw in some HIIT if you're not doing any cardio.
     
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  4. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Don't take a thermogenic.

    How many meals a day do you eat?

    5-6 meals will help.

    Keep your calories under about 1500-1600 a day if you are trying to drop bodyfat.

    Eat about 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.

    Fresh fruits and veggies, and kill the ice cream, fried foods, and stuffing your self in the evenings with high GI foods, if you do. :)

    How old are you?

    Good luck!
    -Robert
     
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  5. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    whats thermogenic?
     
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  6. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Like Hydroxycut. An alleged fatburner. They take money from your wallet and do nothing else.

    -Robert
     
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  7. zebano

    zebano Semi-Pro

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    I always assumed they worked by forcingou to shed waterweight. Anyone know how they do work?
     
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  8. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    They don't work. That's the point. It's all marketing hype. It's like the creams women buy that make them younger, but worse. At least some women look better in cosmetics. These commercial fat burners are nonsense for the most part. Ephedra based products do work, but only slightly. They have huge downsides and are illegal to purchase with the exception of a few products that are close to the old ephedra formulations, yet not as effective.

    Stay away from that crap.

    -Robert
     
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  9. 007

    007 Professional

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    I'm 39 and do eat 5-6 meals a day. I do splurge once a week on beers + wings/nachos with 'da boyz'....but hey....gotta indulge a little, right?

    Probably need to increase protein consumption to match body weight

    I though that if started using a lean gainer the extra muscle would not only replace bodyfat but simultaneously increase my base metabolism (due to more muscle), thereby promoting even more fat loss

    Y/N/sort of?

    I'd would never try thermogenic with ephedra in it

    I Do 7 minutes of pre-lifting elliltical and 7 more post-lifting (total elliptical burn of 300 calories)
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2008
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  10. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    No. You are eating too many calories, and probably too much of the high GI foods. Stick with low GI foods except immediately after hard training, when a little goes a long way.

    Without impugning your honesty, which is sterling I'm sure, almost everyone UNDERESTIMATES their caloric intake. This has been demonstrated with numerous studies and is beyond doubt, at least in my mind. So, what you may need is to keep a food diary, and count EVERYTHING. That Tootsie Roll? Count it! That second sugar over the top of your Starbucks Latte? Yup, count it. Once you keep track of exactly what you are eating for a few days, you will see two trends, most likely:

    1. You are eating too many calories;
    2. You are eating too much high GI food, like sugar, potatoes, potato chips, or even beer. (an occasional ONE beer is fine, but most guys drink 3 or 4 beers without thinking twice and one of my brothers finishes off a six pack almost every night)

    The post lifting 7 minutes should be done first. Three minutes is not enough warm up time unless you are 15. :) Secondly, post lifting cardio, if done, needs to be more substantial for weight loss. Don't trust those calorie counters on the elliptical machines. They are not remotely correct. You will probably need 30 minutes of cardio to burn 300 calories. I would do two days of longish cardio per week at this stage of your training and since it's winter. Thirty minutes minimum, but preferably 1 hour. One day per week I'd do intervals. Come tennis season you can cut back on the cardio significantly, and add on court intervals and foot speed training in addition to playing. You can also drop back on the lifting during the season. One day a week of lifting will be fine if you put in the time now. Two days of lifting during the season is optimal if you have the time, IMHO.

    These are my views only. Training views vary widely. I'm a 65 year old guy with almost 30 years of triathlon, 57 years of lifting, and 60 years of running experience. If you have any doubts about your training, you'd be best off finding a very good trainer and paying him/her to train you for 6 months. Afterwards, you would be new man, I'm sure.

    You are very young and are thinking right about your health. Keep going.... :)

    -Robert
     
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  11. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I think everyone here knows how I feel about that "big" nonsense. If you're talking about getting "big" as in increasing your bodyfat, I'd say watch the calories, but if you're talking about getting big as in overly muscular, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Weight training alone never has and never will make someone huge with muscles. It doesn't work that way. Anyway, your body doesn't need a lot of protein as most of it gets pissed out anyway. 140 gms of additional protein is too much. You might consider taking in that amount of protein altogether and not as additional.
     
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  12. 007

    007 Professional

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    thanks for all the useful feedback!
     
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  13. richw76

    richw76 Rookie

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    First off Listen to Rickson, Ano, and Chess. Although I wanted to add an asterisk to something Chess said.

    I agree If you are trying to lose Body fat none of the Thermogenics that are currently available work very well. Back in the day there was a combo that worked but the Meth-Cookers killed that.

    Currently and in the past I haven't used a Thermogenic as directed on the label.

    What I do is on days when I'm super tired and seriously dragging tail, I'll take one pill 20 minutes before I hit the gym. It gives me the boost in energy and concentration I need to get through the work out.

    I only do this once every week or two usually. Sometimes a little more sometimes a lot less.

    Also if you are taking a thermogenic drink a lot more water than usual. You sweat a ton more and you'll get dehydrated if you don't.
     
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  14. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    What did they use to use back in the day, Sudafed or something? I didn't know Thermogenics had changed at all, but of course I'm not that old either. I always just thought they were Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin.
     
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  15. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    ECA is correct.
     
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  16. richw76

    richw76 Rookie

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    That's it The cookers apparently started using sudafed after the feds made pure ephedrine illegal.

    But yeah that stack worked, but even with the caffeine aspirin ephedrine combo you still had to hit the gym and eat clean if you wanted to see results.
     
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