Lendl's eight knot hybrid string job

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by AR15, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. mykoh

    mykoh Rookie

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    This thread makes for a very interesting read.

    I'm about to attempt this myself, but was just wondering if anyone has tried this with a poly/monogut or poly/multi hybrid?
     
  2. vladimir.chorbadzhiev

    vladimir.chorbadzhiev New User

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    Hi, I decided to experiment with a slightly different stringing which requires one starting clamp and is a two piece stringing (4 knots). I used a regular drop weight stringing machine with fixed clamps and strung the perimeter first (synthetic gut). The layout is a poly centre, surrounded by 4 synthetic gut strings from all sides (on a 16x20 Wilson). I did similar to the around the world job, started with main No. 5 then No. 1 cross from top, then No. 5 main at the other side, then the last bottom cross......Here are some pictures:[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I usually play with Prince O3 Speedport black and like the increased comfort and control, especially with off-centre shots. This "Lendl" string job, has changed my Wilson and made it feel more like the Prince, so I decided to give the Prince the same pattern, but this time more conventionally ( stringing the poly first) . It turned out to be extremely challenging, because you can turn the string only in one direction with the speed ports! Here is a picture of the very eccentric result (note the loops at main No 5 and the double knot at the bottom :-?) https://plus.google.com/photos/1158...5978912196031111474&oid=115845351851355477201
    If anyone has experience with this pattern and Prince rackets, please let me know.
     
  3. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Vladimir you picture does not work. Which Prince racket are you using.
     
  4. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    Prince O3 Speedport Black, just like the referenced post indicates.
     
  5. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks tbuggle, for it to work on an O3 Speedport Black you would have to use the long side tail to string the crosses (crosses 16 - 4) from the bottom up.

    EDIT: Also that would use three strings on the top, bottom, and sides instead of 4.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  6. proracketeer

    proracketeer Professional

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  7. vladimir.chorbadzhiev

    vladimir.chorbadzhiev New User

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    Thanks for your post Irvin. I have considered this, but stringing bottom up seams to be against Prince stringing instructions http://www.princetennis.com/media/23617/o3_speedport_black_SI.pdf
    and I also wanted more than three strings on the sides for improved comfort.
     
  8. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I would not recommend that pattern anyway. It is not any special and on a Prince it is very easy to mess up big time depending on the racket.
     
  9. SkiDog2k3

    SkiDog2k3 New User

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    I recently figured out this pattern and strung it into my Head youtek instinct mp with big hitter blue 16 for the center track 52lbs. & OG sheep 16 at 54lbs. for the outer track. (Sorry, no pictures) it looked pretty, but playing with it was far from impressive. After hitting with it for about an hour and finally getting the strings broken in, I decided to switch back to my regular hybrid.. Same strings, same tension with about three hours of play on it.
    My opinion.. Any benefit gained by stringing this way for me I negated by
    1. The complexity of the string job.
    2. The time needed to actually get the mix (string type & tension) down to something that works for me.
    3. The odd string length needed for the string job is wasteful unless you have reels.

    Pretty, challenging to string, but not worth it in the long run.

    Enjoyed your YouTube on it Irvin.
     
  10. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Adventures in stringing Bosworth Lendl

    What happens if you use a perimeter string that loses tension too quickly? Would the corners of those strings allow the frame to bulge out, creating more of a Yonex shape? If the poly (center strings) lose tension too quickly, what would happen to the shape of the frame? I've already gotten a reel of Blackout, so now I need a perimeter string.

    I have two racquets done with different string setups. My first try crashed and burned when I came up short on string on my last pass on the crosses. My first successful one is Iontec Black 1.25/Dunlop S-gut Red 1.35. It's in my signature racquet. The black and red is an interesting look in a black racquet. The tensions are 53/53. It came out nice and crisp, telling from testing it at home. Tommorow I'll be trying out all of the racquets I've been working on for the past few months.

    The other racquet is my Aerogel 200. It has Cyberflash 1.23/Hexy Fiber 1.26. It's strung at 52/52, but feels tighter than the other one against my palm, and feels softer when bouncing the ball. I'm thinking that I'll end up liking the S-gut better for my perimeter string. It feels a lot crisper.

    Below I describe how I string my Dunlop 200 racquets. Please expect to make adjustments for your racquets. The way I found it easiest for me to string this pattern in an 18x20 95" follows (I used stretchy strings):

    1) Use a half set to string the perimeter. Insert one end in the fifth cross grommet from the bottom. String the bottom five crosses without tension. Leave a foot for tie-off. After tensioning it will be longer.

    2) Going back to the fifth cross grommet, insert the other end of the string into the bottom grommet of the outside main and pull it through, without disturbing the bottom crosses. Then place your starting clamp on the string outside of the outside main grommet. Up to this point, we've measured where the point is between the sides and top of the perimeter and the bottom crosses. Take the bottom crosses out so they won't be in the way of stringing the mains.

    3) Starting with the outside mains, string three (with tension) from the outside in. Then string the topmost cross, as if it's a box pattern, except that your doing three adjacent at a time. You will have to weave the corners as you go. Continue with side-top-side and tie off at the bottom. I found Irvin's instruction on how to use the Yonex method very helpful here.

    4) This leaves 12 poly mains and 12 poly crosses for my racquets. I found that using 9' for the mains' short side turned out to be sufficient. When I finished the center mains, the short side tied off at the top and the long side wrapped around the outside of the frame. But I should mention here that it's good to increase your tension by 2 or 3 lbs. on the 'last center main long side' string, before tensioning. This will take up the slack from the next step, wrapping around the outside.

    5) Starting with the fourth cross down, continue the crosses with ploy and stop after 12 poly crosses, adding 4 or 5 lbs. to the tension of the last one. Run the tail down the outside of the racquet and tie off at a convenient tie-off grommet.

    6)The starting clamp holding the perimeter string is in the way here. Please see the next post for a more thorough explanation.

    7) String the remainder of the crosses using the perimeter string from the original measurement. Tie off. You're done!


    Notes:

    You always have to be on your toes concerning which way your weaves need to go. Having only strung racquets for 5 years, stressing about this came naturally to me.

    Also, whenever you bring a string outside of the frame, you should consider how it will line up with other strings out there.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2014
  11. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    There's a trick that I forgot to mention that you will need to use when tying off the poly crosses and moving on to the rest of the crosses (soft string.)

    Set up the poly tail to tie a knot, without tightening it. Go to the starting clamp and put tension on the string so that the original perimeter main is tensioned. Take the starting clamp and quickly tighten up the knot. Put the starting clamp down and move the clamp on the last poly cross to the original perimeter main. Release tension and finish out the crosses.

    I played the Iontec Black/S-gut and the Cyberflash/Hexy Fiber today. The former looked great, but felt really brassy. I only hit the latter against a wall and it felt like a beautiful, soft cannon. I'll have to get it on a court to see how my control is with it. Also, I strung up Blackout 1.24/Hexy Fiber 17 @53/53 today. It looks and feels promising.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  12. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Thread take-over

    I've been tensioning my strings evenly and I'm wondering if it would be better for the frame to string the softer string a couple of pounds higher? My Cyberflash/Hexy Fiber setup turned out really good so far at 52/52. My Blackout/Hexy Fiber is firmer and lower powered at 53/53. I'm considering stringing the Blackout setup at 51/53 next time. If 53/53 is bad for the frame, I'll re-string right away. What do you think?

    Thanks in advance
     
  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    It's fun to play around with different string patterns, but if you're looking for what's best for the frame why not use the manufacturers recommendation?
     
  14. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Because the Cyberflash/Hexy Fiber plays so darn well. Depending on how much I'm risking, I'm wondering how much this pattern hurts the frame and if raising the tension of the perimeter strings a couple of pounds would provide some damage control?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  15. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I'm just guessing but I would think softer strings on the outside would be better for the frame. There are a lot of sharp turns there from main to cross with very little frame to support those two strings.
     
  16. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Irvin

    So are you saying that string breakage would be all I'd need to worry about with this pattern? I think I'll still go up two pounds on the Hexy Fiber. The Cyberflash setup was a bit too soft. But what a plush ride!
     
  17. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Come to think of it, softer perimeter strings is kind of like proportional stringing, isn't it? I think I'll stop worrying about it now.
     
  18. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    There's so many blocked holes for the final 5 crosses that next time I will run them in without tension before tying off the poly crosses. I'll just have to leave enough slack at the starting clamp so I can tension that string and remove the clamp prior to tying off the poly crosses. This will give me the opportunity to run my strings straighter along the outside of the frame as well.
     
  19. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Plan ahead and there won't be blocked holes but then you have short sections of the frame supporting the transitions from man to cross
     
  20. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    The worst PITA of this pattern is stringing the last few crosses through holes that are double blocked with a Hexy string that transitions between main to crosses and the tail end of the Blackout crosses. I'm hoping going ahead with the final Hexy crosses, before tieing off the Blackout, will alleviate this madness.

    And BTW, it plays real nice.
     
  21. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    This string pattern elongates my frame by about 2mm and I can't figure out how this is happening, as the tensions from each direction seem balanced. I'm going to play with full bed setups for a while on this racquet (re-issue MW200G). If I go back to the Lendl pattern, I'll separate the mains from the crosses and go with six knots. That way, I will be able to lower the poly crosses by 1 or 2 lbs. and squeeze the frame from the sides less. Another plus is that I will be able to stop doing two of the daffy wrap-arounds on the outside of the frame. And there won't be a long poly tie-off tail to contend with. The problem is, in order to be able to do this, I'll have to bring my racquet to a pro shop to get two grommets ground out for tying off the poly crosses.

    Does it sound like I'd be going in the right direction with the Lendl pattern for this racquet or should I just stick with full setups? The Lendl does play very nice. There are definite differences.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
  22. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    2 mm isn't much. If you like the way it plays then do it. You may also try loosening up the 6 & 12 supports just a little.
     
  23. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    I think if I go back to the Lendl method, I'll definitely go with six knots. What I've been trying to do looks like pretty shoddy workmanship. And I will take note of how hard I'm tightening the 6 and 12 mounts. Thanks Irvin.
     
  24. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Seems to me that using 6 knots will loose a lot of tension due to drawback. Better plan ahead on those tie offs because there are usually only 6 tie off grommets per racket. I hate using non tie off holes.
     
  25. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    Muppet,

    It's not difficult to drill out one or two grommets. I've done dozens. Just go slow on the speed. It took me just a couple of minutes. Then replace with Fittex :wink:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    I think I'll start with one racquet and see if I like it with two newly widened holes.

    unorthodox, did you use a drill to widen your grommets? I'm thinking my best bet might be to order a grommet grinder from TW. I don't have a drill; not very handy.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  27. lionel_101

    lionel_101 Rookie

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    I use a manual T Handle Tap Wrench with the appropriate size drill bit for the hole to remove broken grommets. I am too afraid to use an electric drill.
     
  28. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    Muppet,

    Yes, I used a drill. Depending on the size of the grommet hole, sometimes I use a drill bit. Sometimes a reverse thread extractor bit.

    The grommet grinder is best. I just didn't want to pay more for shipping than for the grinder itself :)
     
  29. treo

    treo Rookie

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    I did a Lendl job on my APD and it plays very well. It has all the spin/durability benefits of poly without the discomfort, especially on off center shots.

    I used six knots, three pieces: one for poly mains, one for poly crosses, and one for outer syn gut with everything 17g at 50lbs. Poly mains first, poly crosses second, nylon side mains, bottom, other side, then top. I used non-tie off holes (except one) and used my awl to make them bigger so the strings will go through. I strung the poly crosses as if I was stringing mains but had to double pull the first few to keep the string from slipping in the clamps.
     
  30. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Why did you choose to use two string for center mains and crosses, and string the bottom strings before the top. Nothing wrong with it just curious.
     
  31. treo

    treo Rookie

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    I wanted to minimize blocked holes. My first time I used six pieces with 12 knots so 3 pieces with 6 knots is much better.
    Bottom to top makes it easier to tie off with the knots at the top. A regular one piece string job on an APD goes bottom to top.
     
  32. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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  33. rolliges

    rolliges New User

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    Hey! I found an explaination of this stringing pattern from another thread on Bosworth:

    Mind you, this was back in the mid-'70s. Bosworth, at that time, basically said that a string would 'relax' about 80-90% of its potential to 'relax' during the first 6 seconds that tension was applied. It wasn't so much the absolute numbers involved as it was an approach to consistency. IF a stringer-person waited 6 seconds between pulling and clamping, A) The effect would be more consistent compared to pull-clamp and then pull---------clamp, demonstrating the need for consistent timing...and 2) For those who pulled twice in those days--somewhat common with Ektelon type cranks--the effect of waiting 6 seconds between pulls would allow the string to 'give up' more of its stretch compared to the rapid pull-clamp approach. Sort of a 'pre-stretch plus' approach.

    I'm sure his method has been refined and amended over the 3+ decades since his business became so popular.

    We also spoke about his 'reverse-proportional' stringing method; by which he LOWERED the tension in the center mains and crosses to enhance the 'cupping' effect...particularly for Ken Rosewall's Seamco rackets during one particular tournament. I rolled my eyes at that one a bit; but , he swore that Rosewall gave him 'much' credit for bringing his down-the-line forehand back inside the court...thus allowing him to win a particular event.


    So now we know the name for this pattern "reverse-proportional" and its effect.
     
  34. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    Has anyone done this hybrid on a Babolat PD? I'm interested in trying this out on my PD.

    Thanks
     
  35. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    btw I have a Gamma Progression II with a Tennis Wise as well as x2 starting clamps. Trying to re-read this thread and also watch Irvin's video.
     
  36. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    djNEiGht it should not be too difficult run in the center 10 mains. Start the three left mains from the bottom with a starting clamp then tie off the short side at head and the beginning end of the three outside mains at throat. I'd use only tie off holes for knots. Your challenge is going to be switching around your two clamps and starting clamps. Make sure you plan it out so the knots tie in the right places.

    Don't really know why anyone would want to use a pattern like that other than to see if they could do it. I can't imagine there being any benefit.
     
  37. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    that's pretty much it...

    appreciate your contributions. They have helped me a bunch
     
  38. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    If you run into any problems let out a shout
     
  39. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    It depends on which strings you use and if you choose the right tension. I used Cyberflash 1.25 center / Hexy Fiber 17 perimeter @52/52 in my Aerogel 200. Because there were six fewer poly mains and eight fewer poly crosses, replaced by multi at the same tension, the polys had to handle more of the impact. So I got more deflection and it gave me really nice control.

    In my MuscleWeave 200G, I tried Iontec Black 17 w/ Dunlop S-gut 16 @53/53. It felt quite brassy and unenjoyable. This style of stringing is the last thing that worked on my Aerogel 200. I should get more Hexy Fiber 17 and try it again.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
  40. The Middle Hand

    The Middle Hand Banned

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    How do these patterns actually play?
     
  41. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I don't think they are any different than the manufacturer's suggested patterns. They do though offer you the ability to use hybrid string and place strings with different stiffnesses in the middle / outside of the string bed.
     
  42. Fedinkum

    Fedinkum Hall of Fame

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    Ivan should patent this as "Lendl's Cross".
     
  43. DrumWizOHBD

    DrumWizOHBD Rookie

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    Pretty awesome if you ask me! Especially if you like hybrid with poly mains, but are experiencing lack of power or harshness on shots hit outside of center with your current setup.

    Just kind of a pain to string with flying clamps and without two starting clamps. Also, requires a bit of research and planning. Also kind of necessary to string off of a reel. Otherwise, you are left with less than a half set of your MAIN string, which doesn't do much good, unless you are going to string some woodies, or going to do an around the world pattern and string the outside mains with extra cross string, like Agassi used to do.
     

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