Lets put an end to the myth that Nadal is one dimesional

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Cesc Fabregas, Sep 14, 2009.

  1. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,316
    Nadal is not one dimesional, he uses lots of variety, sure he uses alot of topspin but he unloads on a flat backhand every now and then, he uses the slice backhand more these day. He now attacks the short ball and comes to net and uses different types of volleys drop volleys, short angle volleys, punch vollets and half volleys. He mixes his serve up well, with body serves on big points and uses the drop very well and doesn't overplay that tactic. The guy has many dimesions to his game.
     
    #1
  2. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    29,238
    Location:
    Brave New World
    So how exactly do we go about doing this ??

    ;-)

    Seriously, this was an OLD remark of Federer which is no longer true, except when we rib each other.
     
    #2
  3. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,834
    Location:
    New York City
    When he realized how well Del Potro was hitting, did he make any real adjustments? Not that I saw. He's a good volleyer. Maybe he should have worked that in.
     
    #3
  4. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,214
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    finally i can agree with Cesc.

    Lets put an end to that myth and finally admit that he is factually Uni-dimensional

    It's no longer a myth. it's scientifically proven truth!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    #4
  5. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,050
    I agree. It isn't much good having a more all-around game if he refuses to use it.

    I think he should have tried to play with much more variety, slicing the ball a lot more, coming in to net, hitting drop shots, trying to draw Del Potro in to net to be passed. Del Potro was too comfortable sitting back at the baseline.
     
    #5
  6. ArrowSmith

    ArrowSmith Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    427
    Exactly Fed made that remark after 2006 FO. Nadal WAS one-dimensional, but added the flat backhand as a real weapon in 2007. So you can argue that the Federer dig motivated Nadal to improve.
     
    #6
  7. aphex

    aphex Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Location:
    athens, greece
    lol

    if he wasn't 1-dimensional, he'd be able to try something else with delpo.

    nadal has one game. it either works or it doesnt.
     
    #7
  8. JJK947

    JJK947 New User

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Connecticut, Virginia Tech
    Nadal volleys well on his own terms for example after a great approach shot, other than that, he is average at best. He hit a few very poor volleys in the first set against del potro, I don't know about the rest of the match.
     
    #8
  9. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,123
    Totally agree Cesc. He's one of the most versatile and all surface players out there today. Actually, I wouldn't know many players more versatile than him, allcourters are a dying race. I think Rafa has showed that he can beat anyone on any surface. Although his tactics were still too defensive imo this USO, I think he's had a good year still, with the AO win.

    I think that people who call Nadal onedimensional today are just haters. Though I can kind of relate to the original designer of the remark (RF), as in that when the comment was made, Rafa didn't really have a plan B, played the same on all surfaces etc. Don't get me (or RF for that matter) wrong, he was great at it, but he had 1 strategy only really. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think it's very worthy of some praise how Rafa has the desire to become better and really has made his game a lot more allround over the past few years.
     
    #9
  10. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,316

    Thanks. Great post.
     
    #10
  11. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    The uni-dimensional is thrown around here way too much. Nadal has constantly added weapons to his arsenal and has become a more offensive player that he was in 2005,just not on HC,because his slice is still mediocre and his serve very weak. This 2 things,coupled with the fact that topspin doesn't exactly work on HC,especially fast HC makes him vulnerable to big hitters but that's about the only category of players he is vulnerable against.
    And even then,they need to play very solid to beat Nadal.

    Nadal's game isn't as simple as some here view it but it isn't overly complicated either. It's just that he hits almost every shot with a lot of spin and people go "well he can only hit topspin to corners and try to wear the other guy out". This is not true,at least not anymore. On surfaces that take spin well Nadal is constantly hitting that forehand,especially to the backhand side of the opponent(most of his adversaries are rightys) in order to do 2 things:

    1)hit repeteadly there until he forces an error
    2)hit backhand until he gets a weak reply in which case he comes in and finishes it.
    3)angle the forehand so as to pull the other guy off-court than run him around a bit until he either makes a mistake or Nadal gets an opening and closes the point.

    And don't get me started on his backhand which basically didn't exist up until a few years ago but now is actually a weapon. Nadal needs to improve his serve first,then learn to slice better and then flatten the FH more on HC. His volleys are decent for a guy who comes to net only to shake hands.

    Uni-dimensional players don't beat GOAT candidates and they certainly don't have a positive h2h with most of the top players.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    #11
  12. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,326
    Nadal is one-dimensional. How many times in your life have you seen Nadal serve and volley or chip and charge?
     
    #12
  13. aphex

    aphex Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Location:
    athens, greece

    how many dimensions did Krajicek have?
    pray do tell!
     
    #13
  14. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,316
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?

    Nadal playing all court tennis.
     
    #14
  15. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    nadal is a counter puncher/moonballer, and damn good at it. move on.
     
    #15
  16. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,372
    Lets put an end to the myth that Nadal is one dimesional

    I only agree with the later half of your title.

    Like most things in life there is no myth and Nadal is one dimensional.
     
    #16
  17. Polvorin

    Polvorin Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    I agree with the people who say Nadal is capable of playing with more than one dimension. He is a pretty good volleyer, albeit he usually comes in when the point is all but over. I think he's developing more tools as he goes along, although at this point he's probably 1.5-dimensional at best.
     
    #17
  18. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,123
    Why does everybody always put the hate on Krajicek? He was an awesome player, very worthy of a Slam, and not that onedimensional, since he made the semis of 3 grandslams, and 3 times the quarters of the fourth slam. He was awesome, not really versatile, but he had quite some nice shots to choose from.
     
    #18
  19. Bruguera

    Bruguera Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    I do agree with this.. There were NO adjustements in Nadal's game and to went back to his defensive pusher moonballer ways.. I never even saw him with any sense of aggression in this match.. Maybe the stomach tear had something to do with it.. But he sure didnt alter his game to at least try and compete.


    I think its just comes to down to, he just cant hang with a big monster like Del Potro having a red hot day on this type of service. Nadal will always run into this problem against an aggressive player like Del Potro at the USO. This tournament just isnt his cup of tea. But thats the way things go
     
    #19
  20. Polvorin

    Polvorin Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    "The URL contained a malformed video ID."

    Wicked sense of humor you have there. :lol:
     
    #20
  21. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    It happens because of all the BS elitist crap that's spewed on these boards by supposed tennis lovers who can't respect different styles,even though they claim to love the game. Tennis has always had players who defended well and players who attacked well and on few ocassion players that did both equally good.

    If we are debating about what one-dimensional is,please someone give a definition of what makes a "dimension" in tennis. If hugging the baseline or playing behind the baseline and being a percentage player is being uni-dimensional then I have some bad news for you elitists,most players in the ATP play like this and guess what most of them aren't great on the attack and they don't excel in defence either. Most of them get into long rallies and try to outlast the opponent,attacking only when they have lost patience or when they see an opening. Most of the players in the top 100 fall in this grey area,not great attackers,not great defenders but almost all of them percentage players to some degree.

    Nadal is a an aggresive counter-puncher that has added weapons to his arsenal as he aged and started conquering different surfaces. If Nadal played like this and had a booming serve,elitists would have been calling him a terrific,exciting player and so on. But because he plays baseline and doesn't have finesse shots or a powerful serve so in their eyes he is somehow an inferior player even though he has a positive h2h with most of the top guys. If this one-dimensional guy beats most of the ATP regardless of surface,what does that say about the ATP? Or what does that say about the multi-dimensional Federer,who lost 13 times to him?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    #21
  22. All-rounder

    All-rounder Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    6,223
    Location:
    Transitional era
    I'm not saying he is 1 dimensional but if he wasn't he would have been able to find a way to beat soderling and Del potro
     
    #22
  23. Bruguera

    Bruguera Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    well I dunno if we can accurately critique everything that happened in these matches since Nadal has been playing injured. I believe he has and he isnt one to run to the press and make excuses and why he loses.

    But if and when Nadal gets finally 100 percent healthy than we will see how he handles these two.. Nadal has beaten Del Potro. And he systematically abused Soderling on clay before. So lets wait and see what he does when he finally gets healthy again before we pass juddement
     
    #23
  24. Polvorin

    Polvorin Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    No credit to Soderling on the win ay? I guess I shouldn't be surprised...
     
    #24
  25. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,326
    Or Soderling at the French. Maybe the French isn't his cup of tea any more, either? :shock:
     
    #25
  26. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    Nadal has problems against one type of players: tall players with good 2 handed backhands and booming serves.And that on fast surfaces with the exception of what happened in RG this year when Nadal wasn't exacty at his best and these aren't my words but that of countless comentators in RG 09' who felt that Nadal didn't arrive at his best here.

    And even so it's not like he is losing to nobody's. Soderling lost only to Federer since RG. DelPo is the fastest rising star out there. Djoker also gave Fed quite a tight match even though he lost in straights.

    Nadal is uni-dimensional only on HC because he can't vary his game,due to his lack of weapons for this surface. He can't do anything with the serve,he doesn't have flat shots so he can't dictate play unlike in clay and grass. Every strength Nadal has is denied by this surface. He cannot defend well here because of the fast surface. He cannot use the spin because of the surface. His weak serve is forgiven on clay and grass because the spin makes it kick up on natural surfaces,not so on HC. So to sum it up his counter-punching skills go down here,his serve is weak and his topspin strokes are pretty much denied. The fact that he made 2 semi's here shows just how tough he can be even with playing the wrong game for this surface.

    That's why most of his worst defeats have been on HC,whether fast or slow.
     
    #26
  27. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    Even Borg lost to Panatta at RG. If Soderling starts to regularly beat Nadal on clay then I will believe that this victory wasn't an exception.
     
    #27
  28. poplar

    poplar Guest

    LOL. I can s&v, I can grind, I can slice and do all sort of things. The problem is I can't do it effectively. For Nadal, the most effective thing is to keep hitting top-spin forehand to his opponent's backhand. If he can handle it, Nadal then go to the net, slice back, and do all sorts of things..but do they work? Not really in his last match.

    Most players can do all these things too. But they choose to stick to what they do the best. But I do give Nadal the credit for trying. And he's improving.
     
    #28
  29. Polvorin

    Polvorin Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    The same could have been said of Federer and clay. Perhaps Nadal will adjust his game the same way Fed did.
     
    #29
  30. Bruguera

    Bruguera Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    Soderling deserves some credit no doubt.. So do Del Potro.. THey did what they had to do. But Nadal being injured really all year, helps their cases.


    I thinkg Nadal would have been beat vs. Del Potro regardless if he was 100 percent but not to the extent. I dont believe Soderling would have beaten Nadal at the French if Nadal was at the level he was years prior at the French.

    Nadal isnt just a great clay player with tons of potential on grass anymore.. Now he was becoming a great player all around so that naturally zaps more energy and and the possibility for injuries came about. He had a brutal schedule after the AO and had to go through hell and back just to win the AO. That leaves him open to more susceptibility.

    We'll see how Nadal rebounds next year. But I think he proved alot of people wrong at the USO. Many didnt think he would make a semis appearance after being off for a few months and out of form
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    #30
  31. aphex

    aphex Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Location:
    athens, greece
    is that why he requested that fewer matches be played on HC?
     
    #31
  32. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    HC is the worst surface for the body. This is common knowledge and most ATP pro's will tell you the same thing. We need more natural surfaces in tennis. Bring back the freaking grass. Clay has about a third of the ATP,grass has a very small percentage and HC has the rest. Not exactly equal is it?
     
    #32
  33. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    Really? Perhaps you blinked and missed the countless clay finals Federer has reached. Fed doesn't have a worst surface. It is just that he is vulnerbale on clay against Nadal and if ******** shows up then a few more players have chances. But you can't say it is a weak surface when you make 4 RG finals in a row. By comparison Nadal has only 1 HC final and has made only 3 fast HC finals in his career,Madrid 05',Paris 07' and Olympics final.

    And besides the serve what shot of Federer's is denied on clay? His movement is very good on clay,his FH is still whipping,perhaps his one-handed BH is somewhat affected but only by a lot of spin. And on this surface he can use the dropshot better. Although it is clear that Fed has some problems with certain shots on clay his strenghts remain. Nadal's strengths on HC are denied,the only shot that can do damage on HC is Nadal's backhand. That's it. His movement doesn't help on HC because the surface is too fast,the FH spin is denied by the true bounce and the serve remains weak.
     
    #33
  34. aphex

    aphex Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Location:
    athens, greece
    fixed.

    although he MUST like it since he played singles AND doubles in a HC tourney right after he was "injured"...
     
    #34
  35. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    Right... so countless experts that say HC is the worst surface for the body are just flat out lying or you don't want to accept it because you hate Nadal.
    Regarding the injury,choo-choo welcome aboard the drakulie train.

    What is so weird about playing doubles after the injury break? He has problems with knees,he rests for 2 MONHTS,his knees get better but now he needs competitional practice. Did you even see who he entered doubles with? With freaking Roig and they lasted a grand total of 2 matches,which were like glorified practices for Nadal who needed the extra matches in order to shake the rust off.
     
    #35
  36. EtePras

    EtePras Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    733
    One dimensional is a strength. Federer has many dimensions yet all of them together can't get more than 4 games in a match against Nadal on clay in a best of 5 match in a grand slam final.
     
    #36
  37. aphex

    aphex Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Location:
    athens, greece

    should i take your word?lol

    as far as i remember it's the favourite surface for most players.
     
    #37
  38. Polvorin

    Polvorin Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    I'm just saying he wasn't an especially strong clay court player. He's said himself he didn't consider himself a real contender at the French until 2005. That forehand dropshot is a new addition to the repertoire. His main strengths, hitting through the court and playing aggressive all court tennis, and his serve, are negated and he's had to adapt in order to make himself the great clay court player he is today.

    edit: the clay also greatly diminishes the effectiveness of his slice bh
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    #38
  39. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    Read again. I was talking about the toll HC takes on the body not about the favourite surfaces of players. It's only natural that HC is the choice for most players today because many of them find clay movement strange(especially those who didn't grow up on it) and they only see grass for 2 weeks a year. HC is basically 50% of the tour,it would be weird if it wasn't the favoured surface of most players.
    HC is favoured because it is cheap to mantain,unlike grass and clay but tennis started out on the natural surfaces and it is scientifically proven than natural surfaces are better for tennis players.
     
    #39
  40. aceX

    aceX Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,906
    Location:
    In position
    Nadal is not one dimensional - he is now a very good fast court player.
     
    #40
  41. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,741
    I sure miss Aphex. RIP buddy.
     
    #41
  42. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    31,165
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Federer, the supposed goat, losing consistently to a 1-dimensional dirtballer :lol:

    Nadal, as a 1-dimensional player, isn't thrown too much round here no more ;)
     
    #42
  43. ZeroSkid

    ZeroSkid Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,441
    Location:
    Canada
    He is not one dimensional but even if he is does it matter lol
     
    #43
  44. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    29,238
    Location:
    Brave New World
    But he is blue-yellow color-blind, right ?
     
    #44
  45. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,828
    Hey Aphex, why you no post no more? Oh that's right...
     
    #45
  46. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,683
    Location:
    In The City
    Whoa! You sure showed that permabanned user up. Talk about being a bada$$.
     
    #46
  47. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,050
    Nothing wrong with being 1D, but it does show Nadal achievements is also like 1D. Most of his wins are on clay, the slow, high bounce surface. He managed to win off clay is when the surfaces got slow down which suit for his type of grinding, defensive game. Despite of the conditions continue change in favor for his style, Nadal can't defend any non-clay events. Nadal is not good on fast surface with low bounce...he only won 1 event on indoor.
     
    #47
  48. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,174
    Nadal is not one dimensional, but his game still bores me because he uses a one dimensional game most of the time. Its rare that Nadal actually plays his multidimensional game, and the FO its extremely boring since he uses only one dimension - retrieve every shot from a few meters behind the baseline.
     
    #48
  49. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,828
    Wrong! All of the surfaces were slowed down starting back in 2001, Federer could not win them when they were fast either. ****s are just sour about Nadal and how all of their lame predictions never came true.
     
    #49
  50. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,174
    Federer always had trouble with consistent grinders who retrieve his work of art shots. Nadal isn't the only one. Ever hear of Simon? Murray? Perfect example of that.
     
    #50

Share This Page