Lew Hoad-A discussion on his career

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by pc1, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Please see the bolded part. Both men were, again IMO, the most talented in the world. Both men also didn't put it together on a consistent basis. I'd throw Ilie Nastase in there if it makes you feel better that he won 2 majors.
     
  2. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Is there a small possibility that you consider Laver as a great one on his own?

    I mean, there is life besides Hoad¡¡¡
     
  3. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    No, I think that Hoad played consistently well from 1956 to 1960, and that's a five year run, similar to Borg or Budge or Becker.

    He had bad patches caused by a severe back injury, but was consistently strong when not hampered by pain.
     
  4. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Hey, don't get jumpy.

    Just a realistic observation on one great year.
     
  5. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Rabbit, as much as I generally appreciate your comments, I think Dan is spot on here.Rios never had 4 seasons like Hoad did in the second half of the 50´s decade.

    Rios was talented , that is undeniable,but his talent flourished because he played a rather dull era ( the late 90´s) and that made him more appealing.

    But I don´t think he was as talented as many of the 80´s and 70´s and of course, he couldn´t hold a candle to Hoad.

    You threw in Nastase.Well, that is a damn talented player.He outstood amidst a great pool of talent.A completely different case than Rios IMO
     
  6. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    I think that the comparison you should probably be making is between Hoad and Nadal, both of whom experienced interruptions in play due to injury.

    Hoad's play was hampered from immediately after 1956 Wimbledon until January 1957, when he was placed in a body cast for six weeks.

    He was pain-free from March or April 1957 until April 1958, when his back stiffened at Palm Springs.

    H e wrenched it further during play against Gonzales and missed two stretches of the American tour.

    On September 2, he wrenched his back again in the final at Roland Garros against Rosewall, and did not play again for four months.

    He played all of 1959, but only part-time after that.
     
  7. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, To avoid be called a troll please stay on earth and quote an original statement of any of your players who praised Hoad as the GOAT.

    I do not change their words but I fear you misinterpret their claims!
     
  8. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, Bud Collins wrote that Hoad made bad errors when not in tune.
     
  9. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Some of your "ball" jokes are not really witty...
     
  10. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Bobby, no one with any brains would call me a troll.

    Rest assured of that.

    I have already quoted many to you.

    Have you REALLY forgotten?
     
  11. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    That is a pretty vague statement, to put it mildly.

    You could say the same about any player.

    Hoad was more consistent than Rosewall in 1959.
     
  12. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Bobby, in response to your question, here is a quiz I have designed to refresh some previous quotes.

    Which great tennis players made the following statements?

    1) "....and the greatest player of all was my friend Lew Hoad."

    2) " If you had an Earth vs. Mars match and had to send one man to represent the planet, I would send Hoad."

    3) "..when Hoad was "on", he was the greatest of all time."

    4) "Hoad was the greatest player."

    5) "The greatest player of the pre-open era."

    6) "If Hoad and Federer played each other, it would be the greatest match of all time."

    7) "If there were ever a Universe Davis Cup, and I had to pick one man to represent Planet Earth, I would pick Lew Hoad in his prime."

    eight) "Lew Hoad was the toughest player ever,...he and Rosewall."

    9) "He had the best game ever, better than mine."

    10) "Hoad was the greatest match player."


    Can you identify the speakers above?

    I will list the right answers below in a separate post.

    Ten points (not ten dollars) for each right answer.

    You can grade yourself when the right answers appear below.

    Reward yourself accordingly.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  13. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    No. 5 was said by Laver, I believe.


    "He was the only guy who, if I was playing my best tennis, could still beat me," said Gonzales.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  14. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, I remember some posters calling you a troll...
     
  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, Bud would never write the same about a Rosewall or a Connors.
     
  16. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, You are a joke: Several of your examples confirm MY version that players refer to PLAYING STRENGTH!. The others, while not saying, mean the same. You live in a dream world. Come to earth and be content that Hoad was arguably the strongest player for short streaks but never a GOAT candidate. Guess you are young and can change your mind easily.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  17. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    9 is Gonzales
     
  18. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    You are correct, Laver picked Hoad as the greatest player of the pre-open era.
     
  19. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    I said, "no one with any brains" would describe me as a troll.
     
  20. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    That doesn't respond to the point.
     
  21. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Bobby, get real.
    I have not doctored the quotes, they speak for themselves.
    Do not try to twist or reinterpret the plain meaning of these statements.

    Join the contest!
     
  22. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    You are correct, (9) is Gonzales.
     
  23. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    To end the suspense, I have put the answers after the quotes.

    Which great tennis players made the following statements?

    1) "....and the greatest player of all was my friend Lew Hoad."

    Ken Rosewall, 2010 interview with an Italian reporter, translated into Italian, and back into English by computer.

    2) " If you had an Earth vs. Mars match and had to send one man to represent the planet, I would send Hoad."

    Butch Buchholz, in a 2007 interview with Peter Bodo.

    3) "..when Hoad was "on", he was the greatest of all time."

    Ken Rosewall, in a 1962 article he wrote.

    4) "Hoad was the greatest player."

    Bob Bedard, winner of nine international tournaments, including three Canadian international singles championships, in a television interview preceding the 2013 Canadian Open final, responding to the question, "Who was the GOAT tennis player?"
    Bedard played against Hoad in the French, Queens Club, Wimbledon, and Forest Hills tournaments in the fifties.

    5) "The greatest player of the pre-open era."

    Yes, Laver, in a 2012 Sydney Herald newspaper article.
    Right on, hoodjem.

    6) "If Hoad and Federer played each other, it would be the greatest match of all time."

    Laver, in a news conference discussing the Sydney article in 2012.

    7) "If there were ever a Universe Davis Cup, and I had to pick one man to represent Planet Earth, I would pick Lew Hoad in his prime."

    Gonzales, quoted by Arthur Ashe in a 1975 issue of Sports Illustrated.

    eight) "Lew Hoad was the toughest player ever,...he and Rosewall."

    Dennis Ralston, live interview, 2012 (?).

    9) "He had the best game ever, better than mine."

    Yes, kiki, Gonzales, in a 1995 N.Y. Times interview with Dave Anderson.

    10) "Hoad was the greatest match player."

    Fred Stolle, while providing color commentary for the Australian Open in the 1998 (?) final.

    There appears to be a general consensus on the identity of the GOAT.

    As Sven Davidson stated in the late fifties, "Hoad is just a class-and-a-half better than anyone else in competitive tennis."

    Or as Tony Roche said when asked who was the greatest ever player, "Hoad was great" PERIOD.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  24. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    YOU are incorrect, Laver picked Hoad as the strongest player of the pre-open era!!!
     
  25. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Why not, strange poster??? Collins clearly described only Hoad as inconsistent. Awake!!!
     
  26. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, You are not serious. You have a idee fixe that Hoad is the GOAT even though NO single player or expert everhas agreed with you. They all referred to Hoad's playing strength for a short time (a match, a tournament, a year) but not to overall dominance which is documented in a player's RESUME!!! AWAKE!!!
     
  27. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Trolling Dan, It's not worth to comment every single remark of the players. So I just answer to one of them in order to disprove your nonsense claim: No.3): "When he was on". Hoad's fault was he was not "on" too often while Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver were "on" very often!!!

    I just add that only an IDIOT cannot understand that No.s 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 are clearly remarks about peak playing level and NOT about GOATness!!!

    AWAKE, my friend (or ex-friend)!!! (sorry for "idiot" but you are the most stubborn poster I ever saw, maybe equal with Phoenix and his zero Wimbledon idee fixe...).
     
  28. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Ranked numero uno.

    Laver reduced the field to Hoad and Fed.
     
  29. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Respond to the stats, not unsupported generalizations.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  30. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Read the list, Bobby.
    Hoad was more consistent than Rosewall in their longest tour, 1959, and 150+ matches is not a short stretch.

    It is longer than Laver's year in 1969, which was 122 matches.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  31. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    He was "on" more often than Gonzales or Rosewall in the biggest year of pro tennis, 1959.

    No, the players are calling him "the greatest player" of all time.

    You are attempting to re-define the term "the greatest player" and make it "the greatest career'.

    Two different things.
    .

    Somehow you seem to ignore what is clear and black and white.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  32. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Regarding strength, not regarding GOATness generally!!!
     
  33. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I trust Bud Collins and other exoerts more than a trolling biased fan!!!
     
  34. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Hoad has not WON 150 matches!!! He won about 90.

    Yes, 1959 was his best year, but even then he lost tour matches to Anderson and Cooper plus he lost Wembley, French Pro, Cleveland, Masters, Toronto, and clearly the European Grand Prix. He also lost badly at Sydney and Brisbane.
     
  35. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan L, I will not comment your stupid remarks and opinions anymore.

    You are not able to read and understand the remarks of the players you have listed up at all. Why did not you have "READING" in your grammar school?????

    Greatest career (your invention) is the main part of GOATness!!!!!!!

    You misinterpret many comments of those players, as I have proved in my post. Some have not specified what they mean but the majority has yet specified they mean peak level!!!

    Your big mistake is that you interpret the word "greatest" of those players always as greatest in the sense of overall greatness whereas most of your ten players have pointed clearly to PLAYING STRENGTH as every non-idiot will understand when reading their statesments!!! Your number 3 was extremely clear!Both regarding peak level and peak level ONLY WHEN "ON"!!!

    There is just one riddle left for me: Are you just an immature fanboy who does not understand English language or do you deliberately make a serious thread dirty. I cannot accept both versions.

    I stress that I'm a great admirer of Hoad both regarding his greatness as maybe strongest player and as a human being!
     
  36. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    No, Bobby, Laver does NOT say that.

    You are adding your OWN words here.

    Look at what is actually being said.
     
  37. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    You shouldn't trust a vague, unsupported remark from anyone.
     
  38. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Yes, when his back was bad, he lost some matches to Anderson and Cooper.

    But he had the edge on all three opponents, especially on Gonzales in their head-to-head.

    Wembley and Cleveland were outside the championship tournament series, and so was the European Grand Prix.

    On the championship series, he won six tournaments, Gonzales four, Rosewall two, Sedgman one, Trabert one.

    Total = 14

    Check your math.
     
  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Troll, It's senseless to argue with a troll. Laver did not specify in your sense though!
     
  40. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, Check yourt BRAIN finally!!! Hoad was 23:23 against Pancho that year!!!
     
  41. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Yes, he did.

    Read.
     
  42. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    15 to 13 on the championship tour, Gonzales regarding this as the definitive result for the year.

    In tournament championship, 6 wins for Hoad to 4 wins for Gonzales.
     
  43. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Dan

    I might respectfully suggest that you engage in the Peak Play GOATS thread.

    Here I believe that you will get no arguments about career achievemets versus "GREATNESS in quality of play." (I can hope).

    Here: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=457704
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  44. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    . ............. . . .
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  45. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau

    It would be lovely to see what Rosewall and Hoad would say about it.
     
  46. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Exactement!


    You are birlliant, as usual!
     
  47. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    I personally prefer Tony Randall and Jack Klugman. Great series. Whatever I say the word assume I think of that series.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  48. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Thank you, I have just posted.

    Please note, I am not making any case myself, just REPORTING what the tennis elite peers thought about the issue.

    I am accepting their judgment.
     
  49. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, But they would not accept yours...
     
  50. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    hoodjem, Why do you always try to blame BobbyOne? For the first time there seems to be a self-contradiction of mine and a weak spot in my argumentation.

    But let me explain: Dan L(obb) has never insulted me or another poster. He never was as aggressive towards me as you often are. And he brought interesting information about Hoad and even Rosewall. Thus my welcome to him after his long pause.

    But I had been hoping that Dan would have minimized his bizarre Hoad worshipping. Alas, he did not. Thus my reservation, my unfriendly words about his stubborness. He still does not understand what "greatness" mean and he misinterprets those players who called Hoad "the greatest". Hope you understand my two-way reactions.
     

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