Lew Hoad-A discussion on his career

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by pc1, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Yes, Bobby, Hoad's last victory of any significance over Rosewall was in the 1964 NZ Tour decider, and even there Hoad had lost his first three matches to Rosewall.

    After his 1965 foot surgery, he never again defeated Rosewall, due to mobility reduction.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  2. newmark401

    newmark401 Professional

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  3. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    It seems he, for isolated periods was the most dominant force and was untouchable but...did he have the consistency to go for it the whole year? was he motivated for a whole year of domination alas Lendl,Borg or Sampras?
     
  4. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    So, Bobby&Dan, at the end...which were the finals of those two 1968 WCT season ending championships?
     
  5. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    No, it was clear we discussed 1970.
     
  6. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Oh Lord, let raining brain! (especially on Dan). You still don't understand that Mulloy's choice cannot be regarding 1961 in a whole because when he made his statement Rosewall was retired!!! Rosewall shortly afterwards had his comeback and dominated the second part of 1961 and is ranked by many experts as the No.1 of the year.

    Do you understand the difference between "half" and "whole"? I doubt...
     
  7. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan: Hoad was injured early and was replaced by Trabert, Sedgman and Cooper.

    Mulloy referred to peak play in ONE match, not to winning or leading in a tour! AWAKE please! Please do me and other readers this favour! The night is over. No place anymore for nightmares a la Dan Lobb!!!
     
  8. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Again wrong!! Rosewall was invited but avoided to play the tour because he wanted to care about his baby child!!

    You should understand tennis history. STOP that idiotic Hoad bias! Lew was great enough. He does not need supporters like you!
     
  9. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, Rosewall and Hoad did not play a NZ tour decider, as far as I know.
     
  10. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Hoad did not have the consistency of a Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver. He was injured often and he often was not motivated.. Thats a minus in his career.
     
  11. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, There were NO 1968 WCT season ending championships! They began in 1970, as told.
     
  12. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    The WCT Finals began being played in 1971 and ran through 1989. The ATP started its own tennis tour in 1990. The WCT did have its first tournament in January 1968, with the handsome eight contesting it. The WCT truly got off the ground with a robust tournament schedule by 1970-1971. It is mentioned that sports promoter Dave Dixon witnessed some "dreary conditions" at a poorly promoted pro match between Rosewall and Laver before the Open Era. He had the idea for a pro tennis tour and presented it as such to Lamar Hunt. Lamar Hunt was such an important tennis promoter during 1970's-1980's. Yet, the WCT was never allowed to flourish as the governing bodies of tennis jostled for control of pro tennis during the 1980's. I think it would have been nice if players like Rosewall and Laver got to experience a bit more of the WCT during their primes. It was an important catalyst during a tennis boom.

    See this interesting 1955 article on Hoad from the SI Vault.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1130151/index.htm

     
  13. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Bognumberone, that is a very good post.

    Yes, the real genious of the WCT organization is / was Dave Dixon while Hunt had the big bucks and experience in sports management ( he was instrumental in the NFL launching in the second part of the 60´s).They also had Al Hill, who married Hunt´s daughter and, later on, one of the best tournament organizers of all time, Owen Williams.

    As I have stated thrillion times, modern tennis, and very specially GOLDEN ERA, owes so much to WCT
     
  14. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    deleted post
     
  15. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I definitely agree on this point , bobby

    in a way, Hoad´s predecessor was Gentleman Jack Crawford, a man who beat Vines at major finals but was unable to take the first GS in history, just five years before Budge did, due to his own mistakes.NO OTHER MAN has been just a game away of a GS like he was in 1933 and, unfortunately to me, missed that big chance.

    23 yrs later,Hoad was just a final away of the GS, but lost the Forest Hill title to Rosewall.

    Curiously enough, both friends/rivals deprived each other of their ultimate goal: a Wimbledon title for Rosewall and the GS for Hoad.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  16. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    This is the point, Bobby.

    There was NO official championship listing for WCT in 1968.

    Only lists for percentage wins, tournaments won, and money won.

    Roche and Newcombe won the important lists.
     
  17. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Hoad had full years in 1956 and 1959.

    Back trouble interrupted 1957 and 1958, with about four months or more spent off in each year.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  18. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Bobby, you lost the thread of the argument.

    Kiki and I were discussing the 1968 WCT season, and somehow you got sidetracked to 1970.

    Bravo!

    (Or perhaps were you TRYING to sidetrack the conversation?)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  19. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    No, I would suggest that Hoad was very consistent from 1956 to 1960, and his bad patches in those years were related to recurrent back trouble.

    The 1956 Forest Hills final found Hoad still having back trouble, which commenced immediately after Wimbledon.

    Hoad was more consistent than any of the pros on the tournament circuit in 1958 and 1959.
     
  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    We did but I just lost track

    Anyway, good to know a bit more about the WCT tour

    As I said, the 68 tour was an experimental test , prior to the big merge that set Hunt as the most powerful man in pro tennis
     
  21. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    The issue was....WHO won the WCT tour in 1968?

    There was no year-end event to determine this, and THREE different ratings lists.

    I suggested that money and tournaments were important, but not percentage wins.
     
  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    This Handosme 8 tour is really interesting, not just because of its concept as a modern year long tour but because it was THE NEW CROP of pro stars against the OLD CROP of George Mc call and his NTL with Laver,Gimeno,Hoad,Gonzales,Rosewall,Emmo,Butcholz and Stolle

    The modern against the old yet the first two WCT seasons were dominated by the oldies Laver and Rosewall when they unified the tour in 71

    I guess the only 2 Mc Call men who signed with Hunt in 68 were Ralston and Pierre Barthes, the 6 others were recent amateurs

    right?
     
  23. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Not quite. you forgot your old friend Butch.
     
  24. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Pilic,Drysdale,Taylor,Newcombe and Roche were the so called newcomers, and that was a top class group.

    I imagine neither Okker and Ashe wanted to become pros at that time
     
  25. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    You are able to confuse end-year championship with listing! Wow!

    And: the percentage list was the official list of WCT.
     
  26. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, WRONG: I discussed with kiki the 1970 season. No mention of 1968. It's meaningless what you discussed with kiki: I did not join it at all!

    Don't change the truth and don't insinuate nasty things at myself!
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  27. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Curious Dan Lobb, My discussion with kiki was NOT about who won the 1968 WCT tour but was there a season-ending WCT event in 1970?!

    The 1968 discussion was between you and MYSELF.
     
  28. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I'm sure they unified the tours in 1970.
     
  29. Noleberic123

    Noleberic123 Legend

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    was hoad really that good?
     
  30. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Noleberic123, Yes. On his day he would have beaten Djokovic (both using the same equipment of course).
     
  31. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    No, kiki asked about a year-end event for the 1968 WCT, which was the subject.

    To return to the issue, Roche leading the money list was more important than percentage wins.

    The money list is very important.

    In golf, it is the determining number for making the tour.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
  32. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    No, he was better.
     
  33. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Curious Dan, Tennis is not golf! Did you know that?

    Dan, I can finally help you: Read posts 790 and 791!

    Post 790 (kiki): "...they did not have a sort of final championship like Dallas in 1968, right?"

    Post 791 (BobbyOne): "kiki, you are right. 1970 was the first such event". With "1970" I meant the 1970 Tennis Classic organized by WCT. Maybe I should have written that, but even without specifying, it was clear since then that we discussed about 1970, because I had confirmed kiki that there was NO such event (final championship) in 1968 (or 1969)!
     
  34. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, You are probably wrong at the 1962 Australian TV series:It was a r.r. where Rosewall finished first with 9 wins and 1 loss (against Hoad). Probably there was no final at all.

    Do you have any results?
     
  35. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    I read somewhere that Rosewall lost the final match to Hoad, which was expected to be the summit of the series.

    The "official" results must exist somewhere.

    Either way, the Hoad/Rosewall match would be the gem of the series, and attract the most viewership.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  36. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    I was referring to post 795, where kiki referred to the TCC as "the first WCT finals", with no year mentioned.

    What does that sound like?

    Money list was more important than percentage wins, as any look at Sports Illustrated will tell you.

    There was no reward for percentage wins, but there was, obviously, a reward for money won.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    oh¡ I am so sorry to have brought a quarrel, again¡¡

    let´s leave at like that

    1968: the one with more tournaments won is the unoffical WCT champion (Newcombe)
    1970: the winner of the TCC is the unofficial WCT champion (Laver)

    Is it Ok for both of you?

    a pitty Laver´s TCC win does not count as an official WCT title...because, that was the only major he never won ( along the Masters where he only took part in 1970)
     
  38. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, Your opinions sound rather strange for me...

    Please tell me why Joe gave the official WCT rankings with Ralston first???
     
  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I doubt that Newcombe was the unofficial champion. Joe McCauley presented Ralston as No.1. The players are listed there regarding percentages (win/loss). Dan claims that Roche was No.1 (money).
     
  40. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I never really understood that they called it The 7 handsome + Tony Roche.

    Roche was better looking than Laver,Stolle,Emerson,Gimeno and Rosewall.Not to mention Segura.
     
  41. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Money isn´t everything.

    it is much more than that.:)
     
  42. Vensai

    Vensai Professional

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    Yeah. Do people seriously use money as a factor to how good a player is?
     
  43. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I would agree with exception of Rosewall's. When I watched my first tennis match on TV (Wimbledon 1970 Newcombe/Rosewall) I thought to myself that Muscles looked a bit like a dressman. I still believe he had a pretty and friendly face. Female spectators admired not only he aesthetical playing...
     
  44. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Yes, Vensai, Dan does...
     
  45. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Well tough tv match to start off
    Newcombe was one of the ladies favourite of the
    70's
    It is also the best decade for female fans as well
    Newk,Nasty,Borg,Panatta,Vitas,Vilas
    No other decade had more females enjoying it
     
  46. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Bobby, it sounds like kiki proposed a reasonable solution.

    What problem do you have with it?

    Joe McCauley did NOT give the official rankings with RALSTON first, as you claim.

    McCauley gave three different lists, with different leaders, and Ralston was only the leader in PERCENTAGE WINS, the least significant statistic.

    I do not understand why you persist in regarding this as the "official" number one, when clearly McCauley makes no such statement.

    This is YOUR statement, not McCauley's.
     
  47. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Again, Bobby, McCauley does NOT claim that Ralston was the official champion.

    McCauley gives THREE different lists, with THREE different leaders, of which Ralston leads the least significant list.

    Obvious.
     
  48. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Most tournaments and most money won are more important than best percentage, for which there is no reward.
     
  49. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    "People" show much interest in the money list, in both golf and tennis.

    Read your morning newspaper.
     
  50. Dan L

    Dan L Professional

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    Bobby, the MEDIA does.

    Read the Wien Bundesblatter, or whatever you have there.
     

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