Lew Hoad-A discussion on his career

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by pc1, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    We were looking at the years 1952 to 1960, before Hoad sustained his foot injury problems in 1961 which limited his mobility...after which his record against Rosewall would be abysmal.
     
  2. Dan Lobb

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    Yes, I was not looking at indoor or cement events, just clay and grass 1952 to 1960. I found the score at 22 to 11 for Hoad.
     
  3. Dan Lobb

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    I will get an overall list when I return from a short road trip into the wilderness of northern Ontario. Stay tuned.
     
  4. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Enjoy the trip Dan. :)
     
  5. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Dan, Poertschach 1963 was on clay. Rosewall also defeated Hoad on clay at Vienna in 1959 (Grand Prix).
     
  6. Dan Lobb

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    It was fun, I took my wife, father-in-law (who is now chairman of the federal senior's committee) and brother-in-law on a tour of Muskoka and Algonquin park...saw a wild turkey, thinner and more muscular than what you see on your thanksgiving platter, and a moose....no bears this time, saw many bears in the past.
     
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  7. Dan Lobb

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    Vienna 1959 was a tour match, 1963 was after 1960...I think that Rosewall is still behind lifetime on clay tourneys.
     
  8. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Glad you had fun Dan! Bit of a battle going on in the World Number thread about the number one player in 1964. Seems some (sigh) don't want to believe the fact that one of the participants statement the 1964 130 day pro tour was NOT a World Championship Tour.
     
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  9. Dan Lobb

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    I can believe his recollections, partly because Rosewall failed to claim that he (Rosewall) was the official world champion...which causes a lot of confusion to everyone.
     
  10. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Wouldn't it have been a bit awkward for Rosewall to claim to be the the World Champion in a year when his biggest rival has a 15-4 H2H lead over him for that year? Rosewall had more class than his fanboys.
     
  11. Phoenix1983

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    To be fair, I think Nadal had something like a 4-1 winning record over Federer in 2006, but the latter was clearly #1.

    I know that the Open Era clearly differs from the pro era of H2H tours, but still...
     
  12. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Since we're being fair, in addition to having a 15-4 H2H record against Rosewall for 1964, Laver also won 2 of 3 so called "pro majors," in 1964, and won more overall events than Rosewall in 1964. Did Nadal do that?

    It is dishonest to declaim the importance of so called "pro majors" to bolster Rosewall's ranking in other cases and ignore them in favor of a tour (which is falsely and dishonestly being claimed to be the "World Championship" tour), in this case.
     
  13. Phoenix1983

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    He did not. I only wanted you to state your full case.
     
  14. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    FYI, I've stated more than that about 6 or 7 times already. But, when you have to repeatedly rebut the same false assertions over and over, they got lost in the rubble.

    Apparently, you missed my edit:

    It is dishonest to declaim the importance of so called "pro majors" to bolster Rosewall's ranking in other cases and ignore them in favor of a tour (which is falsely and dishonestly being claimed to be the "World Championship" tour), in this case.
     
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  15. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    The guy who I communicated with who played on that 130 Day 1964 Tour is very trustworthy and it was made clear to me that the Tour was NOT for the World Title.

    Incidentally Dan, I couldn't find anything about Rosewall declining playing Gonzalez in 1961 on the World Championship Tour because of his wife being pregnant but I do believe it's true. The closest thing I could find was in Rowley's book which mentions Rosewall's son Glenn was born August 1961. I'll keep trying to find it but I've been pretty busy so it's tough.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
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  16. Dan Lobb

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    You have a point there...Rosewall was not clearly dominant over Laver, so perhaps that gave Rosewall pause before proclaiming himself as the official world champion...Kramer and Gonzales did not let that worry them in the 1950's.
     
  17. Dan Lobb

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    Don't bust a gut looking for it, because I very much doubt that the pregnancy of Rosewall's wife, delivering IN AUGUST, was responsible for the tour arrangements in JANUARY...something does not add up with that story.
     
  18. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Haha! That's one way of putting it. In fact, at 15-4 Laver was clearly dominant over Rosewall in 1964.
     
  19. Dan Lobb

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    Have just read that Trabert retired at the end of 1963 as tour director, leaving the tour without a tour director...the job fell upon Rosewall.
    Hoad was described as "semi-retired" in 1963...the truth at last.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1964/03/31/r...-field-in-white-plains-may-27-to-31.html?_r=0
     
  20. Dan Lobb

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  21. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks to Urban we have more information that forecloses the issue of who was #1 for 1964.

    For 1964, we have Laver leading Rosewall as follows:

    1. Match record: Laver 81-27 (75%); Rosewall 69-30 (70%)
    2. Total titles: Laver 10; Rosewall 9
    3. So called Pro majors: Laver 2; Rosewall 1
    4. H2H: Laver over Rosewall15-4

    Once again, I have seen no reasonable basis to argue that Rosewall was any better than #2 in 1964. Laver was #1 for 7 straight years 1964 through 1970, and Rosewall was not #1 in any of those years.
     
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  22. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks Dan but if I happen to see it I will mention it to you.
     
  23. Dan Lobb

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    I think that Laver's hth edge over Rosewall is underrated, because McCauley excluded the results of the New Zealand tour, where Laver had a 3 to 1 edge over Rosewall, that would make Laver's dominance even greater.
     
  24. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Do you mean under-counted? But, even at 15-4 in favor of Laver, such dominance seems to be underrated by some.
     
  25. Dan Lobb

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    Perhaps it should be 18 to 4.
     
  26. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe so. Can you show the wins you are talking about aren't already included in the 15-4 that I've seen elsewhere?
     
  27. Dan Lobb

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    These were in the New Zealand tour of 1964, Laver over Rosewall 3 to 1, so the total should be 18 to 5.
     
  28. Dan Lobb

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    Apparently, the 15 to 4 included the NZ results.
     
  29. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Another Wikipedia page citing Lance Tingay says 12-3. So, the NZ matches of 3-1 would add up to 15-4 H2H lead for Laver over Rosewall for 1964. A very dominant year for Laver.
     
  30. Dan Lobb

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    I don't think that Bobby regards the NZ tour matches as within his calculations...I do not understand that.
     
  31. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    FYI, my past postings of the 15-4 Laver/Rosewall H2H for 1964 have been acknowledged as correct.
     
  32. Dan Lobb

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    I do not doubt that, although Bobby may not think that this is a significant stat.
     
  33. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    So what?
     
  34. Dan Lobb

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    True. Some stats seem to escape the attention of some people.
     
  35. Dan Lobb

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    The Queen apparently offered Hoad a knighthood in 1957 if he would remain amateur and continue to play Davis Cup.

    Here is the Queen shaking hands with Hoad in 1957 at Wimbledon, her first appearance there (the only other appearances were in 1962 for Laver, and 1977 for the Centennial Wimbledon).
    A picture is worth a thousand words,

    http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/ad2358e30...s-doubles-final-gardner-mulloy-and-g4rgg9.jpg
     
  36. Dan Lobb

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    An iconic image from the next week after meeting the Queen above, Hoad at Forest Hills Tournament of Champions, a venue he would lose to Gonzales at in 1957, but win over Gonzales in 1958 and 1959.

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos...lew-hoad-in-action-vs-usa-picture-id186890247
     
  37. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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  38. Phoenix1983

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    I think that Her Maj may have had a thing for old Lew ;)
     
  39. Dan Lobb

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    Could be. I am not privy to the royal secrets.
     
  40. Dan Lobb

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    ..................
     
  41. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Now Dan, that surprises me. I figured you would know these royal secrets. :)
     
  42. Dan Lobb

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    Next time I see the Queen I will ask about her feelings about Hoad in the fifties.
     
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  43. Dan Lobb

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    .....................
     
  44. Dan Lobb

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    Here is one of the great unknown inter-generational matches....wow

    http://www.windsortennis.co.uk/lew-hoad-the-great-aussie/
     
  45. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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