Like it or not Serena Williams is the Greatest

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by mistik, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. Service Ace

    Service Ace Professional

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    Nope, sorry. I'm measuring in terms of present era. If Serena can accomplish in the WTA what Fed has accomplished on the ATP, she's earned the title G.O.A.T.
     
  2. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    You are comparing apples to oranges. Federer accomplishment is irrelevant to Serena. That's like comparing a WNBA player to an NBA player. Her place in history is as an all time great is measure directly to all the past great female player.
     
  3. amx13

    amx13 Semi-Pro

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    Sorry, but Federer has surpassed what any other male player has accomplished in the history of the sport, that's why he is the G.O.A.T. Once Serena does the same (more slams than Graf), then she will be in the discussion
     
  4. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    You're a moron, you DO know that, right?
     
  5. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    This pretty much. Serena has the weapons and the gift of physical ability to dominate any female tennis player in history. Arguing against that is like saying Ali would have a chance against Vitali Klitschko. Recognising the greats from the present doesn't necessarily denigrate the achievements of the greats from the past.
     
  6. roysid

    roysid Professional

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    What favors Serena:
    - Utter domination of rivals, particularly on grass.
    - Even at 30, winning slams


    What doesn't favor Serena:
    - Champions conduct
    - Consistency and commitment
     
  7. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    tough one. When she's on, Clijsters is one of the greatest defender ever, plus she hits pretty darn hard off both wings. Graf has NEVER faced anyone like her in her prime. I'd give a very slight edge to Graf because she was mentally tough and Clijsters has showed tendencies to choke..
     
  8. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    True.


    Subjective, as there is no established conduct for any player--other than the avoidance of patently offensive behavior like that of Hewitt or Tipsy.

    On the contrary, it is her choice to play her own schedule which (along with apprently strong genes protecting her from the effects of age unlike past players at 30) has allowed her great talent to rise to successfully challenge no less than three generations of players since she turned pro. That is a remarkable story in the annals of sports.
     
  9. pug

    pug Semi-Pro

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    I think you are sadly mistaken about williams and klitschko.
     
  10. pug

    pug Semi-Pro

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    No I don't know that. If you have to resort to name calling I think that says more about what you are.
     
  11. Matt H.

    Matt H. Professional

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    I honestly dont even consider the WTA ranking system to be of any validity.

    Serena is not #1, but she wins majors by the fistful and we have a non-major holder at the #1 spot every other year.

    Williams sisters are an UNSEEDED doubles pair that shows up most times and just dominates the #1 or #2 ranked team and soaks up majors and gold medals.
     
  12. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    If she plays as well as she playing now, I don't think a calendar year slam next year is out of the question.
     
  13. Aneto

    Aneto Semi-Pro

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    +1. Agree 100%
     
  14. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Queen Serena is that good. In 2007 ranked 81 in the world, she joined the AO and won the tournament without any preparation lol.

    career golden slam in both singles and doubles!!!!!!!!
     
  15. [Z]engin

    [Z]engin Rookie

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    She wasn't that particularly good, yesterday.

    And no she isn't the GOAT, her 'greatness' pales in comparison with Graf and Navratilova.

    If only she was more dedicated to the sport, who knows what might have happened then.
     
  16. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    People have no common sense or objectivity on here and if you believe what the freakin wave riding, forgetful-present minded, payed to induce ratings commentators say then you really are gullible.

    Serena is one of the GOATS of the womens game, of course.

    To make a blanket statement that she is THE GOAT of womens (or even more ridiculously mens and womens) is down right stupid and disgraceful.

    At this point in time I would never attempt to place Serena above Graf, Navratalova, Court, Billie-Jean, etc....
     
  17. EKnee08

    EKnee08 Professional

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  18. EKnee08

    EKnee08 Professional

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    Agassi accomplished a similar feat. Does that make him the greatest of all time on the men's side. He was ranked in the 120s.
     
  19. Down_the_line

    Down_the_line Legend

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    Well said. This is exactly what I find so unbelievable about the Williams sisters. They, especially Serena, are so damn good that they've been able to just come and go from tennis as they please. Major titles and lot's of money have always been waiting for them because there is almost never anyone to stand in their way.
     
  20. pirateofthecarribean

    pirateofthecarribean Professional

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    Serverena is the greatest server of all time in terms of ace count.
     
  21. NikeWilson

    NikeWilson Semi-Pro

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    Here's who Serena beat in the 15 Finals she won:

    1999 US Open def. Martina Hingis
    2002 French Open def. Venus Williams
    2002 Wimbledon def. Venus Williams
    2002 US Open def. Venus Williams
    2003 Australian Open def. Venus Williams
    2003 Wimbledon def. Venus Williams
    2005 Australian Open def. Lindsay Davenport
    2007 Australian Open def. Maria Sharapova
    2008 US Open def. Jelena Jankovic
    2009 Australian Open def. Dinara Safina
    2009 Wimbledon def. Venus Williams
    2010 Australian Open def. Justine Henin
    2010 Wimbledon def. Vera Zvonreva
    2012 Wimbledon def. Agneska Radwanska
    2012 US Open def. Victoria Azarenka

    I feel bad for Venus Williams. If little sister wasn't in her way, Venus would've won a lot more Slams.
     
  22. Gizo

    Gizo Hall of Fame

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    I remember the image of Serena's first slam victory at the USO in 1999, when the camera shot to Venus in the stands afterwards. Of course she would have been happy for Serena, but she was looking pretty grim. She was 15 months older but had to watch her younger sister winning a slam title before her, which must of stung.

    Of course Serena has been a better player than Venus both technically and mentally. However Serena has always wanted to beat Venus much more than Venus has wanted to beat her. For Serena she hated losing to anyone, regardless of whether it was Venus or someone else. Venus probably accepted defeats to Serena more easily than those aganst other players. I do think that the 'big sister factor' has been in effect in some of their matches.

    In their first ever slam match, their SF at Wimbledon 2000 which Venus won, Serena was devastated that she lost and was in tears afterwards. Venus's first thought was to look after her younger sister. However after Serena beat Venus for the first time in a slam in the 2002 RG final, Venus was smiling afterwards and went to get her camera to take a photo of Serena. It took losing a 4th consecutive slam final to Serena at the 2003 AO, for Venus to finally become incredibly annoyed that she lost yet another slam final to this one opponent, sister or no sister.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  23. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    True...

    I wondeer how it is in their personal life. I sincerely hope Serena is different from her tennis persona!
     
  24. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Serena is not the greatest of all time. GOAT is generally recognized to be based on achievements, and Serena's achievements do not equal that of others such as Graf, etc.

    But: IMO Serena is the best player of all time; when uninjured, motivated, and focused, she is able to dominate her peers like no player before her. Her peak playing level is higher than anyone else's IMO.
     
  25. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Inducing ratings would require the ability to force audiences to watch. No one can force audience to watch anything if said audience does not give a damn--the very reason well-promoted TV productions go to series each season, but in the face of top promotion/critic support, numerous new series fall like bowling pins. That said, if certain players earn ratings, it is not due to some puppeteering on the part of commentators. They only wish they had that kind of power, because if that was power at their disposal, tennis ratings would rival the superbowl's typical haul.

    She's not won the Grand Slam, so no, she's not the GOAT, but on the opposite side, we see this board filled with agenda-driven, hostile members attempting to downgrade her at every turn, while pumping up lesser players like Kvitova, Safina, Henin, et al. With Henin, a couple of TW troll were trying to call her one of the all-time greats and/or best of the generation long after Serena passed her majors count.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  26. Gizo

    Gizo Hall of Fame

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    I remember reading somewhere an interview extract from Venus, where she has said that generally away from tennis, Serena is more confrontational and argumentative than her. She talked about times when she and Serena have eaten out in a restaurant. They have gotten the bill afterwards and both thought that the total looked excessive for what they ordered. Venus said that she has always wanted to just pay it and let it go, while Serena has always wanted to speak to the waiter and challenge him about the incorrect total.

    With Serena being the youngest sister in the family, Venus has said that more often than not she has usually got her own way in the family.

    Speaking of Venus being non-confrontational, two incidents spring to mind. The first was when the umpire wrongly awarded Sprem that point in their tiebreaker at Wimbledon in 2004. Most other other players would have sprinted straight to the umpire to strongly protest his clear lack of numeracy skills. However not a peep out of Venus. The second was when she played on in the dark against Pennetta at RG in 2008. If Venus had gone to the umpire and requested that play been suspended for the day, I'm sure it would have been. Again most other players would have taken up that option, but once again Venus didn't complain at all.

    I do think it's great that Serena and Venus have such different personalities to each other, as it would be boring if they were overly similar.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  27. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I like Serena and often defend her on TW, but I found this thread laughable. Is it a troll post? Even if you can make an argument that "greatest" is more than just singles Slam totals and get over the hump of Graf's Golden Grand Slam, the "like it or not" aspect, as if it's not debateable, is ridiculous.

    You could have just said "I think Serena's the greatest. Here are my reasons."
     
  28. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    While Graf is a serious GOAT candidate,her 88 slam is overrated.Navy and Evert oldies.Hanna not focused.Seles and Sabatini and Arantxa still kids.Ho could stop her?
     
  29. Warriorroger

    Warriorroger Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps, I agree with you that her level of play is great, but you also have to take equipment and all into consideration. With all that she has, she has not been able to win the GrandSlam nor the real Golden Slam.

    I am a big Steffi fan, but if Serena surpasses 22 then I will have to admit she is the greatest, but with only 40+ titles and 15 grandslams she is not.
     
  30. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    I'm not taking anything away from Graf - I'm a huge Steffi fan.

    I don't think equipment comes into it; I'm looking strictly at results against peers who all have access to the same equipment.

    Graf is greater than Serena no doubt. Greater as based on achievements.

    But when Serena is "on", her ability to demolish her peers is IMO something else. When I used to watch Graf against her peers, I used to think, "damn she's good". When I watch an "on" Serena against her peers, I think "this woman is playing at a whole different level to everyone else."
     
  31. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Good joke.Court,King,Wade,Austin,Goolagong,Mandlikova,Shriver,Jaeger,Sabatini,Sanchez,Seles,Novotna,Davenport,Capriati,Venus,Clisters,Kournikova,Hingis,Martinez vs a bunch of journeywomen plus Sharapova,Henin,Kuznetsova and Mauresmo.
    Best joke in ages
     
  32. fuzzyball

    fuzzyball Rookie

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    From what I remember, except during the 2 seasons where she was really challenged by Selles, Steffi Graf was clearly more dominant than Serena, spanking her opponants with even more ease than Serena does nowadays and Steffi did it all year long during the tennis seasons of her domination as opposed to Serena who generally only bothers to show her domination less than half of a tennis season years after years.
     
  33. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    When they were just starting on the tour as very young teenagers Richard Williams said that Serena was the better player of the two because Serena was meaner.
     
  34. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    The facts don't lie. Serena was only dominant a few matches here and there, but never throughout the entire year. She never had a year with at least 90% winning record.


    Best annual singles winning percentage
    No Player Year W-L %
    1. Martina Navratilova 1983 86-1 98.85
    2. Steffi Graf 1989 86-2 97.73
    3. Martina Navratilova 1984 78-2 97.50
    4. Steffi Graf 1987 75-2 97.40
    5. Martina Navratilova 1982 90-3 96.77
    6. Martina Navratilova 1986 89-3 96.73
    7. Steffi Graf 1988 72-3 96.00
    8. Steffi Graf 1995 47-2 95.91
    9. Margaret Court 1973 102-5 95.32
    10. Chris Evert 1978 56-3 94.92
    11. Chris Evert 1977 70-4 94.59
    12. Martina Navratilova 1985 84-5 94.38
    13 Justine Henin 2007 63-4 94.03

    Henin is the only player in this generation who was dominant enough to win over 90%.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  35. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    Likewise, in the early and mid 80's, Martina was just in another league than the other women, including Evert. She was beating them with such ease and efficiency.
     
  36. Flat Top

    Flat Top New User

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    Agree. She doesn't just win. You can tell that she is at a higher level.
     
  37. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    I recently re-watched the movie, "The Matrix". The scene towards the end when Neo realizes that he is The One and he is fighting against Agent Smith so effortlessly, with one hand behind his back while Smith is giving it his all so ferociously is what I think about when I see "on" Serena.
     
  38. fuzzyball

    fuzzyball Rookie

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    True, but the exact same can be said about players Like navratilova and Graf, it looked like they didn't play the same sport as their opponants, Martina with her unique netplay, and Graf who crushed her forehand like no other woman ever did before when she reached her peak and had an unequaled footwork. If you take a look at the scorelines from Graf and Navratilova you can see even more scores like 6/0-6/0 or 6/0-6/1 pure destructions of their opponants than with Serena.
     
  39. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Same with Richard (Pancho) Gonzales, who came in and out of the game. Of course, as a pro he couldn't play the slam tournaments.
     
  40. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Also, Chris Evert, though it was more boring than impressive watching her grind her opponents into the dirt.
     
  41. G1PlAyer2

    G1PlAyer2 Rookie

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    Serena had a 92% winning percentage in 2002 and 92% in 2003. Although, she only played 40 matches in 2003.
     

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