Llodra fined.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Paul Murphy, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,811
    Well it is being played in Israel, so most likely he is Jewish, but it's irrelevant as long as he believed the guy was Jewish. I'm not saying anything about French people, I'm talking about Llodra.
     
    #51
  2. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    Edited my post, but looks like you didn't see it yet, so here:

    People forget that in the heat of the moment, we don't have the luxury of deliberated reasoning before we choose our expletives. If we had the luxury of rationalising our words, we'd have not said anything at all. Therefore pointing out the value or lack thereof of pointing out her race is irrelevant. We just use the words we use most often and try link it with the subject of our anger, and, in this case, since Llodra knew nothing about the woman besides her sex and race to distinguish her, it would've only been natural to use one or the other, or both. He chose race (and got it wrong).
     
    #52
  3. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,606
    People focus on difference to define each other.

    According to a previous post, this is what he said:

    "putain foutu chatte chinois"

    All the first three adjectives are misogynistic insults that men the world over use against women.

    And if he wanted to use Chinese specific insults there's a multitude he could have chosen, but he did not.



     
    #53
  4. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,811
    That actually makes it even worse. It means it's part of his instinct. It's built into his brainstem and the racism is deep within him that even if he tries to reason his way out of it, he will never realize it. It's ingrained in his being. Scary.

    p.s. I am certainly not trying to be self-righteous here. I may be no better than him and perhaps have done the same. Wouldn't change that I was racist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
    #54
  5. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,811
    LOL, you're a joke dude. He's angry at her and at that moment he's focusing on the differences she is relative to others because he want to write an essay on Chineseness to use your word? :) LOL. Get a clue. There was no reason for him to say chinese especially in that context. What if he had shouted so the entire stadium could hear and he said to her "BE QUIET YOU CHINESE" looking directly at her. How would that go over?
     
    #55
  6. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,606
    So you make up your own words, put them in LLodra's mouth and try to justify your stupid argument that way!

    You don't even understand the French words quoted, do you?, because you don't know French.

    If you don't know what he said in his native French than you're not entitled to have any point of view.



     
    #56
  7. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,737
    You are absolutely right. People of different cultures and different ethnicities should all be made to act the same. Otherwise we as "the good guys" can place labels on them like racist etc. That way we all keep our cultural differences, get along with each other, and allow each other to think and act differently.

    Ya see how this works?

    Or maybe we should just ignore people if they are rude or different and leave each other alone if we dont like them.

    Do you honeslty think he should be fined money for calling someone chinese when he didnt understand she was Korean. So Lodra is rude and ignorant. Big deal, its not illegal to be rude or ignorant. If I call an Asian ....Chinese when they are Japanese should I be fined?

    Sheesh. Maybe Lodra and this Asian chick should get married. They already have the lingo and banter down pat.
     
    #57
  8. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    Look, I'll explain it as simply as possible, because you seem rather intent on making Llodra look like a diehard, pillowcase-wearing racist. If I told you that Llodra isn't actually Nadal, despite also being a lefty, would that help? :p

    Anyway:
    1. Llodra doesn't know the girl's name
    2. All he knows is that the person is FEMALE and that she's ASIAN
    3. Most Asian people are assumed to be Chinese (partly because there are more of them than any other Asians, or anybody else for that matter)
    4. Since he can't call her out by name, he would've needed something else to describe her. Only her nationality distinguished her, so he chose nationality.
     
    #58
  9. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,606
    Yes, its hard not to see the use of the word 'Chinese' as simply a means of identifying that person in a crowd.

    And he hasn't used a phrase like 'damn Chinese", nor used the usual derogatory synonyms for Chinese nor the usual descriptors of Chinese people used by racists.

    All his insults are directed at her femaleness.

    But I don't have the definitive text of what he actually said in French.
     
    #59
  10. Cormorant

    Cormorant Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,222
    I'm reminded of the Troicki-Ferrero match this year down under, during which Viktor had a fan chucked out for shouting: "Hey Troicki, how do you say choke in Serbian?" A lot of people claimed that guy was a racist, but I'm not sure if Viktor gave any reason for complaining other than that the guy was being annoying. The incident's on Youtube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDJOgQ19dJU
     
    #60
  11. ark_28

    ark_28 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    4,108
    Location:
    England/USA
    It may or may not be racist but it's stupid and he should not just have been fined he should be banned!

    Whether the girl is Chinese or not is not the issue, he has stereotyped her and made a judgement on her because of her accent she may well be Chinese but she could also be Korean or Japanese etc and proud of her root Llodra has no right bringing where she is from!

    Would he like it is a fan shouted to him "f**king Belgians" or f**king Swiss" ??
     
    #61
  12. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,606
    nonsense - Youre just making stuff up.

    You have to look at what he actually said in French.

    And judge him on that alone.



     
    #62
  13. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,877
    Location:
    Poland, eating bigos and ┼╝eberka
    How dare you fine Llodra, one of the last remaining s-v players out there!
     
    #63
  14. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,007
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    None of us can say for sure if what Mr. Llodra said was racist, because none of us were there. Simply reading a transcript will not give us the whole story, because none of us heard the the tone of his voice or saw the expression on his face when he said it. Was it bad? Of course. Should Mr. Llodra have been fined for it? Of course. Was it racist? I don't know, and neither do any of you.
     
    #64
  15. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    Agree

    He hasn't made a stereotype. He just made an assumption, and a pretty logical one at that too. There are more Chinese people in the world than there are Koreans, Japanese, Mongolians, etc. 99% of the time he'd have been right in thinking she was Chinese.

    This example doesn't work. If he were Belgian and a fan called him a "f_cking Frenchman", then that would be a more accurate example. But even then, it isn't racist, just ignorant.
     
    #65
  16. monfed

    monfed Guest

    #66
  17. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,606
    Here's one report of the incident that even thinks the woman was Chinese, censors the words used so you can't make any sense of what he said, and then goes on to say he was insulting everyone:



    ML smacked ball out of court, threw racquet, called female Gulbis supporter in crowd a '(bleep)ing Chinese.' I confirmed later with brother of woman."

    Officials said Llodra was also verbally abusive towards the ballkids and their coordinator during the match. Besides the fine, Llodra had to apologize for his actions.
     
    #67
  18. DRII

    DRII Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,446
    Chinese is not a race but nationality.

    Still, what is it about "Indian" Wells that brings out such discriminatory behavior and slurs?
     
    #68
  19. monfed

    monfed Guest

    So, Llodra has paid the fine and apologized. What's the point of slandering him further?
     
    #69
  20. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,328
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    Probably because it's in America. So A.) Players get exposed to many different races and cultures they don't normally see and B.) Our media makes a big deal about even the tiniest instance of racism or potential racism.

    I don't know where you live, but if you remember David Ferrer apparently hitting a ball towards a baby in Miami last year, that was huge news here.
     
    #70
  21. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,737
    Balls fly and you make more errors.

    Plus its in America and we took care of those indians along time ago. Indians now have become racist over it. It should be called American Wells. Where is the Black and Mexican Wells tournaments. Clearly the tour is selling out to either Racist Indians or Middle East money tycoons.
     
    #71
  22. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    "Slander" is when you spread maliciously false information about a person.

    This information doesn't appear to be false. Llodra paid the fine and apologized instead of denying or fighting the charge.

    In other news, I seriously can't believe most of the idiot comments in this thread. A pathetic bunch of posters for sure.
     
    #72
  23. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    To the point where they're overcompensating. Why on earth would you have a Black History Month and an International Women's Day if you actually thought blacks and women are the same as anybody else?
     
    #73
  24. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,737
    He is a potentially dangerous person who may be possible of hate crimes. Therfore he should be sensored.

    He has already proven that when he is not happy he can be rude and its just not normal to act like that.:shock:
     
    #74
  25. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    6,103
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    The only time you can do stuff like this and it not be racist is directing your comments to a "Caucasian" (preferably an american male)
     
    #75
  26. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,606
    He apologized, but I'm not sure he's happy about the fine or the suggestion he was racially motivated.

    The fact is that there are hardly any clear facts in the case to make judgements beyond that he was seriously rude in his behaviour and deserved some sort of punishment.



     
    #76
  27. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,737
    Why would you have affirmative action?
     
    #77
  28. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,328
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    I agree. I'm not even a white American.

    By the way, do you live in America? It's pretty ridiculous how much we have to watch what we say in fear of accidentally offending someone.
     
    #78
  29. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    Of course!

    We at TTW are all angels. We don't have flamers and trolls, and respect all players equally and are reasonable and objective when our favourite players lose.
     
    #79
  30. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Thanks for the correction, but I see you get my point.
     
    #80
  31. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,737
    correct. Then its "reverse" racism
     
    #81
  32. DRII

    DRII Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,446
    You do realize that many of the different Asian nationalities and/or ethnicities nearly hate each other, dont you...

    To call any Asian, Chinese is quite ignorant and can be highly insulting!
     
    #82
  33. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,606
    He's been levied a fine, and he may have had a fine garnished from his paycheck but he hasn't admitted to anything other than ill-tempered behaviour for which he did apologize.
     
    #83
  34. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    Mate, I'm Korean.

    My grandmother got married because had she not, she would've been forced to prostitute herself to the Japanese occupation forces, so I probably know the animosity between Asians better than most people on this board.

    I've had people ask if I were Chinese or Japanese plenty of times before; never get offended. Fail to see why I should either, over an honest mistake.

    Or maybe I'm just too rational; monfed said I'm too objective to be a Nadal fan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
    #84
  35. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,737
    good enough for me. Personally, if it were me I would just take the ball kids out for some freedom fries. Loud mouthed spectators should not be suprised if a player get a banter going. Hell, Conners would have been banned before he won a Major in todays game. Now we hail him as one of the greats who brought life to the game.
     
    #85
  36. monfed

    monfed Guest

    I've been called an "effing Indian" twice, once I got offended, once I didnot. Depends on the context. In this case, the context works against Meekah. However he's paid the fine and apologized. I don't think more needs to be said about him,really.
     
    #86
  37. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,328
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    I'm Indian and I've been called an "Arab", "Osama bin Laden's cousin", "Saddam Hussein", etc. I got offended the first time, but didn't let the rest of them get to me. There's a lot of ignorance when it comes to race, no matter where you go.
     
    #87
  38. DRII

    DRII Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,446
    Of course, I'm not surprised to see the conservative, mainly white male, mantra deriding political correctness or the need for civil discourse as a whole and the consequences for not adhering to such...

    Point is: 'P.C.' may be an irritant to you (it even is to me sometimes particularly if its not accurate i.e. 'African Americans'), but ask any minority and they would gladly trade hundreds of years of entrenched-enforced- inferiority with the last few decades of entrenched-enforced- political correctness!
     
    #88
  39. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,606
    Llodra should be made to realize that God invented tennis so that we can lawfully and honestly destroy other people on the field of battle by depriving them of the money and fame that only we deserve because only we should be victorious.

    Oh, that's right, he was losing at the time.
     
    #89
  40. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,328
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    Political correctness is a good thing, if not taken too far. Slang is getting far too out of hand. It seems like everyday there's a new, potentially offensive word or phrase that I have to watch out for. That's ridiculous!
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
    #90
  41. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,606
    Humanity is based on hatred.

    We know this from the fact that all religions preach love ..

    for members of their own religion (but never succeed)

    Or like Christianity preach universal love (that never prevented killing)

    If that's what religion teaches its because they acknowledge that humanity is based on hatred and it rather blithely thinks it can change that.

    We cling to families, including big families like nations, and exclude others.

    The first hatred is of course between man and woman.

    Does not the bible almost begin with Adam and Eve.

    But I don't think people deride civil discourse, but political correctness does tend to be like a religion - hectoring us to be better while denying the dirty little truth that we all hate.



     
    #91
  42. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Poor you! It's so HARD to be civilized!
     
    #92
  43. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    I happen to be a liberal, "yellow" male, so clearly you should take heed some of your own advice not make supposedly-offensive generalisations like assuming that all of us are conservative, white and male.

    Sorry, but political-correctness is for most intents and purposes, a bad thing. Politeness however, is a good thing, and I think you have the two confused for the same thing, which they are not. Political-correctness is politeness taken too far.

    Being polite involves obeying common courtesies and respect. Poltical-correctness is "tyranny with manners" (Charlton Heston) because it involves not being able to say anything that runs the risk of offending other people, which is a lot of things. That's why we're now stuck with having to say redundant things like "in my opinion, I believe" and "I personally believe", just so that nobody has to go crying to mommy (or should I say "parents"?) about some words that some random person (therefore male and/or female and including the possibility of those who may have difficulty providing a straightforward answer, including, but not limited to transsexuals who have not completed the sex change process) said online.

    Seriously, isn't "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" something we tell our children, for Christ's sake? I mean, God's sake? I mean, Pete's sake? I mean, someone important's sake?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
    #93
  44. FlamEnemY

    FlamEnemY Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,554
    I agree. Maybe my attempt at sarcasm was not obvious enough.

    Anyway, $2, 500 should not be too much for him.
     
    #94
  45. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,328
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    Sorry, I don't know about you, but I'm not a huge fan of having my vocabulary shrunk by a bunch of high schoolers and college students who decide to make regular words obscene and then have them become an online sensation, and then, all of a sudden, become taboo. I'm not talking about words that have a history of being offensive, I'm talking about words that form everyday (and yes, I've had racial slurs thrown against me).
     
    #95
  46. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    Come to read your post again, whoops, looks like my sarcasm detector today is more busted than the Greek economy :p
     
    #96
  47. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    Watch out, there's word that the cartoon "Tom & Jerry" are named after slang used to describe British and German soldiers in WWII...so yeah...watch out who you discuss your childhood cartoons with :p
     
    #97
  48. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,328
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    I honestly can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not.

    Am I saying something really wrong here?
     
    #98
  49. monfed

    monfed Guest

    I bet you probably giggled on some of them didn't you? Some of the things I've been called are downright funny(not sure If I can mention them here). But you're right about the ignorance bit.
     
    #99
  50. DRII

    DRII Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,446
    Ah, yea... thats why i said 'mainly' (context anyone)...

    And again, i also said that I to sometimes find political corrctness to be irritating. However, P.C. is basically forced politeness; i get that its the 'forced' part that many (mostly conservatives, white males) find offensive. But taking offense to it, is basically ignoring or diminishing the cause for P.C. in the first place; the oppression (in its many forms) of minorites over the years In America (and often government enforced oppression).

    So, to try and right that wrong, we have government and/or society enforced political correctness or affirmative action etc now... As we continue to progress there will be less and less need for such things.

    Also P.C. does not stop anyone from saying anything; you just have to deal with the consequences of saying something out of bounds.
     

Share This Page