Looking ahead to USA vs. Spain, should Andy and James really get the call?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by flyer, Apr 13, 2008.

  1. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    OK, I know Andy and James are and have been staples of the US Davis Cup team for the last couple years and they make a great team. But Im being realistic Roddick is pretty bad and Blake is absolutely horrid on the red stuff. Is it really in the best interest of the team that they are the two singles players because I give Andy about a 5% chance against Nadal on clay, and maybe about 15-20% against whoever else he would play. I give Blake almost a 0% percent chance against any Spaniard he would play on clay. So.......Is is reasonable to say that if Domald Young keeps progressing, as slow as it may be and maybe reaches somewhere around the top 50 maybe, just maybe he should get the call. I don't really know about his clay court game be I think his style is much better adapted to clay, the solid, consistent strokes off both wings, even if they are girly and the better than average foot speed and defense. Roddick I would say has earned his Davis Cup stripes more than Blake and I think is also a slightly better player on clay and just in general, so I think that if all goes as anticipated Young, Roddick, and the Bryans is the team that gives the US the best chance to make the Davis Cup final. I know would be quite a bold move for PMac and the US would still be huge underdogs but its going to take something because I see know way in all heck that Roddick and Blake could beat the Spanish team on clay in Spain.
     
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  2. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    It doesn't matter who they throw out there. Beating Spain on clay is virtually impossible.
     
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  3. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Why does Spain get to choose the surface?
     
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  4. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    ^^^Because they get the tie in their country so they get to choose the venue and the surface. US got the same option last year against them. If your asking how they choose who gets the tie at home I have no clue, they have some system of doing so that was never explained to me, its complicated though to say the least
     
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  5. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    They take turns. (Not TOO complicated.)
     
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  6. leonidas1982

    leonidas1982 Hall of Fame

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    Home advantage alternates; at the very beginning it was decided by a coin toss. When next Spain and the USA play, the US will have home advantage and get to choose the surface.
     
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  7. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Who else do we have? Querrey? Kendrick? Fish? Delic? All really more suited to faster courts. Who is good on a slower court? All I can think of is Ginepri, and that makes me nervous.

    Blake, Courier, Agassi and Chang FTW!

    Kidding. Roddick and James will have to make the necessary adjustments to sneak off with two singles matches over a Ferru or a Verdasco. Maybe work Raf over enough on Friday and catch him sore on the Sunday.

    I think 3-2 for ESP, but of course, I'm hoping for a 3-2 win for us.
     
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  8. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Donald Young ???????????????? Wow, i think he is talented and all but on clay, i am not sure, if he even knows how to move on clay, nevermind actually play on it. ??? We might as well bring back old Harold Solomon to play than donald>....
     
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  9. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ Yes I understand Young isnt a dirt baller but the "talented and all but on clay, i am not sure, if he even knows how to move on clay, nevermind actually play on it" quote of yours perfectly describes Blake and Roddick, Roddick's serve is completely neutralized as is Blakes forehand and Blake is way to aggressive and way, way to mentally weak for clay
     
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  10. daddy

    daddy Legend

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    That is why Sampras/Agassi/Courier generation was insane. You get to choose them on any surface home or away and there you go.
     
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  11. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    It's going to be Nadal and Ferrer and I can't see either of them losing. Nadal will demolish Roddick or Blake on clay. I'm looking forward to this. :twisted:
     
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  12. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    Haha yes Nadal will, but maybe just maybe Young gives the US a better chance to beat whoever else they throw out there, I know its a reach either way so why not give it a shot, Young's game is def 10 times better adapted to clay than Blakes
     
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  13. Aeropro master

    Aeropro master Professional

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    good post... i don't think young is experienced on clay, but i think whoever plays singles for usa is screwed...
     
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  14. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    I agree that Blake bites on clay courts. but Andy Roddick can still play and prove to be useful. Andy's serve is still effective on clay. I remember Andy serving and volleying against Rafa during davis cup few years back and he got the set into the tiebreaker. and during the french open, we will find out if any of the other boys can prove themselves on the clay courts. Likes of Ginepri or Fish could prove themselves to be better than Blake.:)
     
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  15. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    Fish moves about as well as a statue, maybe Ginepri if he keeps up the hard work and consistent results, I still think by that time on clay Young gives them a better chance to win than Blake, and yes I agree as I stated that Roddick should be there
     
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  16. daddy

    daddy Legend

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    ``I know it's not convenient for us. I know we're not going to be the favorites,'' Roddick said. ``But I know we're going to go and we're going to try. The thing about this team is we don't play when it's convenient. That's probably different from some of the other countries.''

    This alone would buy him a place in my team. Blake goes along with him, as a talisman.
     
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  17. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Like I said, I can't wait to see Roddick/Nadal on clay courts. I think this time it won't be that close. Roddick was a better player on clay 4 years ago as well as Rafa isn't close to the clay player that he is now.
     
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  18. schaefferm46

    schaefferm46 Rookie

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    i would say Michael Russell would be a good choice on clay. He is one of the better clay players.
     
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  19. RoddickistheMan

    RoddickistheMan Professional

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    I think ginepri would be better on clay than blake since his game has more topspin and also relies more on movment rather than outright winners. However mentally I think blake and roddick would fare better against nadal and ferrer since they are ranked higher and have been playing better tennis overall.
     
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  20. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Even if Ginepri might be a better decision, I don't think it is smart to upset Blake by not playing him. It probably won't matter anyways as Spain has 3 of the top 10 clay courters in the world.
     
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  21. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    How many ATP matches has Donald Young won on Clay?
    Ginepri? Maybe, well see whether he does better than Blake this clay season. Actually, the same goes for Young; if he wins the German Open or something, then put him in. I don't think it will happen, though.
     
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  22. Tennis_Monk

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    You must be kidding right?. These days We dont see American men in French open after day 2 and you think Roddick's game improved?

    No offense to Roddick. He beat Federer and his Hard court game is definitely top class but on Clay he doesnt stand a chance.

    As far as Rafael Nadal's game , He doesnt need his A game to beat Roddick on Clay. He can do it with his B or C game.
     
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  23. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Read my post again.
     
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  24. WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis

    WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis Hall of Fame

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    Considering they both seem to have a great attitude about playing Davis Cup, and the results recently have been good, I don't see why not. Blake made a good comment about his feelings about playing for Davis Cup, and I summarize: "On tour a player has to only account to themselves if they lose a match. But playing in Davis Cup, you really have to go out there and do your best knowing that you do have an accounting to a team and others expecting you to play your best."

    Just watching vs. France, I understand blister problems etc. but sometimes it seems clear that some other players just don't take the honor and depth of playing for their country as deeply as others: convenient excuses and non-commital/casual attitudes. Andy and James seem to have a great and competitive spirit, yet it's respectful to others competitive spirit when playing for their country. Honestly I root for other countries, say Russia, which is my own, or Germany, which is my home, but for sheer drive, USA is really good.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2008
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  25. Challenger

    Challenger Semi-Pro

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    It's wishful thinking, but USA does have a shot if they get lucky against Spain's #2. Bryan Bros will probably win the doubles, and if Roddick and Blake can miraculously steal wins from Ferrer or whoever else not named "Nadal", then it's possible.

    In all likeliness, it won't happen, but if USA manages to pull this off over in Spain on clay, I will laugh my ass off.
     
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  26. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    great contribution.....but do you think Blake and Roddick give them the best chance on clay against Spain? I think by that time they do not, I think Young would make a better clay courter by that time than Blake, again Im assuming Young will continue his slow rise up the rankings and we'll see how he plays during the clay season but his game is much better adapted than either Andy or Blake to clay.
     
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  27. WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis

    WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis Hall of Fame

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    No, I don't think Roddick has the best chance among those mentioned to get a win on clay. Yet at the same time, can't fault his fight and spirit, and with his improvements lately, I wouldn't count him out. But true, a head coach can't base his decisions on that.

    Yes, Donald's game might be better adapted, but he's yet to prove (granted has yet to be given a chance to prove) his ability in Davis Cup. Depends on whether the crown is wanted again. Give others a chance or stay with known reliables? For "4th quarter TD's", as a coach I would stay with James and Andy. Rather a live or die situation. We'll see though. Spain will be extremely tough on clay.
     
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  28. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    While I don't care for Roddick or Blake's game, I have to say that they're the best American players right now, regardless of surface. Donald Young would be nothing short of hilarious, would he even be able to get a racquet on their high bouncing topspin shots? Kind of hard to win a best of five set match when you can't even reach the ball.
     
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  29. Stchamps

    Stchamps Banned

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    The guy said Roddick is worse now on clay and Nadal is a lot better now, so next time they play on clay, their match won't be close (Nadal will win easy).
     
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  30. gj011

    gj011 Banned

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    Courier and Chang should play for US. They would have more chances against Spain then Jerk and Blake.
     
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  31. quest01

    quest01 Hall of Fame

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    I wouldn't count Roddick or Blake out in beating Nadal even on clay. Blake has had some success against Nadal even though Nadal has had a recent edge over him and also Roddick took Nadal out in Dubai so anything is possible.

    I think the US will beat Spain on clay.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2008
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  32. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    :lol: Want to bet on that?
     
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  33. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    realllllllllllly do you, haha, at least your optimistic
     
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  34. spikyblackhair

    spikyblackhair Rookie

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    'Nuff said.
     
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  35. welcome2petrkordaland

    welcome2petrkordaland Semi-Pro

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    it was nice to see this thread. i was just talking to a friend about this. Sure, there's a lot of time between now and then-I think September is when it is. but unless blake and roddick have better results on clay in Houston and during the European clay season, I can't see how pmac could play 'em. you know he will though.

    I say play Ginepri, if he continues to play well, like he has this year. When he's playing well and believes, he has solid strokes, can fly around the court, and is a smart, more strategic player. He also lives in Marietta, GA, where hardtru courts abound and he's played on the dirt more than other Americans. His serve is good when he's playing well-better than ferrer's and nadal's, so who knows.

    fish and even young may also work, depending on their respective years as well as their clay court results.

    but blake's flat power game and roddick's slightly better but realistically speaking mediocre lateral movement spell disaster on the clay against quick dirt ballers like nadal, ferrer, ferrero, robredo, moya, almagro, etc. esp. in a 3 of 5. fuggitaboutit. it'll be good night irene, for sure if we go w/ blake and roddick, guaranteed. so why not take a chance w/ someone more suited to clay?

    pmac, don't be stubborn, stupid, and/or worried about messing with blake's and roddicks' egos. make a smart decision.
     
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  36. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    all on hard courts. nadal on clay is a much different player. on hard courts hes forcing the play and is not comfortable yet still makes finals and wins tournies. on clay he is a beast. the guy is nearly unbeatable on the dirt. spain will put it in a sand pit again like they did before and now nadal is better. even if spain shows up with robredo,ferrer, ferrero, or moya whey are heavily favored.
     
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  37. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    I wouldn't get rid of either of them.

    Roddick needs to serve and volley against Nadal. He won't, but he has absolutely zero chance of winning from the baseline. The only guy to beat Borg at the French Open was a serve and volleyer. It would give Roddick a hint of a chance, since Nadal isn't the greatest returner.

    Blake is fast, he has good strokes from both sides. He beat Almagro on clay, almost beat Monfils. Nadal has a lot of respect for Blake. I don't see him winning, but he might be able to tire Nadal out at the very least. It's certainly a tough game for Nadal to handle, I think even on clay.
     
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  38. Man, no disrespect but...Roddick needs to serve and volley against Nadal? Blake will tire out Nadal on Clay? This seems entirely backwards to me.
     
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  39. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    Roddick needs to serve and volley because he can't win from the baseline. Even if he doesn't play pure serve/volley, he needs to at least get to net as much as he can and make Nadal hit the tough shots (that he's pretty damn good at hitting). Blake probably can't win against Nadal, but hopefully he can tire him out a little before he faces Roddick.

    So basically, the US has no chance.
     
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  40. RedWeb

    RedWeb Semi-Pro

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    If they want to go then P Mac will take the the current team. You dance with who brought you. It would insult to them if that where not the case.
     
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  41. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

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    One thing not being mentioned is the fact that because of the timing of the Davis Cup, there is a good chance that Nadal could get injured again and not be able to play. But even then, with Ferrer and Moya you still have to beat two very good clay court players. I think that Roddick can still beat Ferrer, but I see the USA going down 3-2.
     
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  42. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    Right they have no chance as you just admitted, but do they have a slightly, slightly better chance if say, Young plays in place of Blake, even if they do not win it he will still get valuable experience and a chance to show what hes made of

    As far as you thinking Blake will were Nadal out on clay I'd have to disagree greatly, it would be the other way around, Blake would get worn out both physically and especially mentally, Blake would wear himself out taking those huge cuts that would just keep coming back, it would be a blood bath, we have seen it before with the players that beat Nadal on hardcourts, Berdych, Youhzny, they all take a pounding on clay to Nadal

    Roddick at least has a clay title on his resume even if it was years ago and he has proved his Davis Cup worth, he is the stronghold of the US team, so I think it should really be Roddcik and Young, I think they give them the best chance to win even if that chance is still no chance at all

    Can anybody comment on how Young is on clay? His game is more well adapted to clay than any other top American so can anybody provide us with any details?
     
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  43. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Roddick's serve is too fast for serve and volley, the ball would be on its way back before he even took the first step towards the net. That plus he volley skills and you have a triple bagel.
     
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  44. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Roddick is alright on clay. Remember that match against Tursanov a few years back? The one that ended like 19-17 or 21-19 in the fifth set?

    Blake has made it to the third or fourth round of the French, but he still has to prove himself on clay.

    Young has the game to compete with Spain. Didn't he get really far in the French Open Juniors a few years back? Also, he needs to get the call based off the fact that Spain has 3 left handers on their team, and the US only has 1. The left handed game is usually based off exploiting the right handed player's inability to react to the lefty spins. Young doesn't have to overcome this barrier.

    And while we're at it, why not Isner? His spins on his serve are top notch (which help a TON, we all know what his kick serve is capable of, and on clay with the high bounce that thing would be unstoppable), and I think his height would, if anything, neutralize the high spinny shots that Nadal hits. And if he does well in Houston this week, wouldn't he deserve a look?
     
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  45. el sergento

    el sergento Hall of Fame

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    I agree 100%. Donald Young got spanked on a slow hard court by Nadal at the PLO. On a hard court I wouldn't pick him to beat any Spaniard in the top 100, except maybe against Verdasco if he's having an off day or is hung over. It goes without saying that on clay Young would get bageled by the second set, no matter who he's playing, simply out of fatigue and from being overpowered. I'd pick Blake any day over Young; Blake would most likely loose of course, but he wouldn't loose as badly as Young.

    The US's only chance at beating Spain is Roddick winning both his matches and the B'Bros winning a match for a change.

    Roddick serving lights out can beat anybody on any surface other than clay, on clay he can beat around 70-75% of the field on a good day.

    Roddick on clay is 64-31 with 5 titles. Blake is a dismal 31-34 and no titles, but that's still 64 matches more on clay than Young who's 0-1 on the red stuff.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2008
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  46. GRANITECHIEF

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    Young up against qualifier Fernando Vincente starting soon.

    This will be the first indication about Young's clay court game for me.

    Maybe Blake and Young will get to play in Houston, which would be telling. I think Blake would beat em.
     
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  47. CGMemphis

    CGMemphis Rookie

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    I find most of this conversation funny and somewhat pointless.

    The US played against Austria on clay and Roddick beat Melzer and looked just fine on clay.

    Blake is no slouch on the surface either beating Koubek during that Davis Cup round.

    Granted these are not Nadal and the other Spainards we are facing, but Young?

    More uneducated, what if, your "dream/favorite tennis player crush" talk. Yes we have our work cut out for us, and its ok to dream on the internet, but I really doubt the fantasies hold water in the real world.

    Everyone has to step on the same clay and bring their A game for both the US and Spain, both sides have no slouches. Dont forget that clay can either enhance or detract from the pace and thats what they have to adjust too, both sides.

    Come back to reality Bueller.
     
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  48. RedWeb

    RedWeb Semi-Pro

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    Huh?... Bryans are 13-2 in Davis Cup.
     
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  49. Shaolin

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    Hugo Armando and Donald Young vs Spain. You heard it here first :)
     
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  50. vandre

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    exactly! that's all ole mother hubbard has in the cupboard. the bullpen is empty and there are no other options at this point. the tie against austria had some nervous moments in it and the spanish are some much better on clay than the austrians (the court surface in spain should be better too/ can't be any worse!). i think the US DC team is walking into a pwning!
     
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