Lots of tennis elbow reports recently so lets poll it ...

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by joe sch, Oct 11, 2004.

?

Your tennis elbow resulted ...

  1. after playing new technology ultra light stiff racket (<12oz)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. after playing new longbody racket (>28 inches)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. after playing new technology stiff strings (polys)

    50.0%
  4. after a combination of the above new technology

    50.0%
  1. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Your tennis elbow resulted ...
     
    #1
  2. finchy

    finchy Professional

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    as you can see from my sig, i use a surge 5.1 (pretty stiff) and monogut 17 (still stiffer than most strings).

    i have slight elbow pain right now, after i played a pretty hard match on saturday night. but what bothers me most is my shoulder, it hurts in certain positions and when a certain amount of pressure is applied. or when i pull or push something with my shoulder.

    both my elbow and shoulder are popping regularly now. its not a good sign for me because my joints barely ever pop.
     
    #2
  3. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    All above aggravate TE. But my whole arm ached for a month when trying to switch from wood to graphite 25 yrs ago. Always wondered if the trend to Western grips is also a culprit.
     
    #3
  4. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    I probably should have included options for shoulder and/or tennis elbow. I believe shoulder problems are often the result of using too heavy of a racket, thus were more common with old school rackets but are often seen now when players try to add too much lead tape to increase the setup they are currently playing.
     
    #4
  5. finchy

    finchy Professional

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    actually, what's messing my shoulder up (im pretty sure of) is my serve and the whippy motion of my forehand. but its most likely because of my very light racquet. a heavier racquet would most likely slow down my swing but help me not whip my racquet and cause my shoulder pain anymore.
     
    #5
  6. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    \
    I consider this the "Roddick" effect which is using a ultra light stiff racket, bab PD, and leading up the hoop to give it a hammer effect and hitting with extreme western whippy strokes, especially the serve. I was considering adding such an additional option to this poll :)
     
    #6
  7. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    With all the mentioning of arm problems recently, I though there would be more response to this poll. Maybe there are other factors that should have been included ? Maybe many of health &amp; fitness readers dont have arm issues ? Maybe we the injured are still in denial regarding arm related tennis injuries :wink:
     
    #7
  8. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    The last time I had tennis elbow I was playing with Babolat PD and then PC. I thought the tennis elbow as due to the racquet but found that the gripsize was to small for my hand. I increased the grip size and it went away. I since switch racquets twice. HPS 6.1 for 2 1/2 years and now the Yonex RDX 500 MP. No elbow troubles to speak of since.

    In the past prior to the Babolat when I have had arm problems proper form more than the racquet has been a cure for me.
     
    #8
  9. netman

    netman Hall of Fame

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    It seems we all look to blame our form or equipment, when in many cases its overuse or the ageing process. Don't believe the BS spewed out by the sports industry that its heroic to play with pain. Unless your paycheck depends on it, trying to play through pain is short-sighted and sets you up for chronic problems down the road.

    There have been some good posts on shoulders recently. Read the "Cortisone Shots" posts for some good info on shoulder impingement and wear and tear.
     
    #9
  10. Thanatos

    Thanatos Semi-Pro

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    I agree...people keep telling me to change my racquet, strings, tensions, etc. But I've use the same racquet since college, same type of string Nylon (just recently switched to syn gut), and tension. The only variable that changed is that I just recently got back to playing competitive tennis after a 10 year layoff.
     
    #10
  11. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    None of the above. I was using fairly "old" technology in a stiff racquet, the Wilson PS 6.1. Once I switched to more flexible (though just as heavy or heavier) racquets, the TE pain was reduced by around 90%.
     
    #11
  12. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Was it another vintage racket ? Not too many new models that are more flexible than the ps 6.1. Did you use the same stringing setup ? 90% is a great improvement !
     
    #12
  13. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Y ou're saying:
    -------------------
    I agree...people keep telling me to change my racquet, strings, tensions, etc. But I've use the same racquet since college, same type of string Nylon (just recently switched to syn gut), and tension. The only variable that changed is that I just recently got back to playing competitive tennis after a 10 year layoff.
    --------------------

    How about conditioning? Are you doing strength exercises for your arms, shoulders and upper body? If not, you'll be easy prey for TE, as all the shocks will be easily transmitted to your tendons. This is VERY important.
     
    #13
  14. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    I wouldn't categorize the 6.1 as vintage-I bought my first one in around '94 and used it until around '97. I first strung it at 63 and then, in the last year I used it, at 60. Then I switched to the Slazenger Pro Braided (which caused no pain, but had too much power for me), and for the last 5 years have used the Prestige Classic, strung at 55 w/Babalot VS Power Gut-also have it weighted at 14 oz. The PC is definitely not a new model, and I need to find a fitting replacement as my PC's are starting to go dead.
     
    #14
  15. Thanatos

    Thanatos Semi-Pro

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    Conditioning on my arm is one thing I need to work on. Also I just ordered a TE compression pad from TW and it seems to help my elbow absord the shock. I'll tell you guys if it really works after a week or so.
     
    #15
  16. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    This 6.1 has generated problems in my elbow too, and I was told the same by my stringer. I have no problems with 6.0 (loaded to 410g with lead, thus there! wrt the heavy racquets) and Tour 90 (loaded to 385g)
     
    #16
  17. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    This is a major variable, thus you need conditioning. Forget about TE bands, those are short term solutions.

    Also, now I see in your signature PS 6.1. I have TE problems each time I am trying to use it. No such problems with 6.0 and Tour 90, strung a 68lbs!

    My stringer also told me 6.1 is a bad choice for elbow.
     
    #17
  18. Thanatos

    Thanatos Semi-Pro

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    Update: I bought TW elbow band. Let me give you a scenario of what it was like before and after.

    BEFORE:
    Wilson PS 6.1 55pds. syn gut.
    I've been using the same racquet and tension since my college days without issues.
    Currently, I take 2 tablets of ibuprofen 1/2hr. before play.
    Played for about 2 hrs on Monday.
    My arm felt fine afterwards but the day after I would have acute pounding pain in my elbow and bicep area for the next 2 days.
    Movement wise, I couldn't rotate my wrist-forearm without pain.
    I couldn't fully extend my right arm. I would take at least 2 days off before I could play again. Then take another 2 more days off and play again...you get the idea.

    NOW:
    Everything is the same except for the addition of the elbow band. When I first wore it during play, it felt weird. Eventually I got used to it and it felt natural. Now after I play, I arm feels fines. I no longer have acute pain and the best thing is that I don't have to take days off. I've been wearing it and have played 3 days straight without pain! That's the first time in a year.

    I'm still continuing with physical conditioning of my arm so that I don't have to wear the band in the future. It has worked for me, but I can't guarantee that it will work for you. But now I can enjoy the game of tennis pain free (for the most part).
     
    #18
  19. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    I am sure it helps to some extent, I used myself one during the toughest of times, when I wasn't even able to wash my head without having acute pain in my right elbow.

    My theory is that it contributes to warming up the area, which is good. Also, that it shortens the length of the active muscle, which is not so good.

    Anyway, talk to me in 4-6 months:)

    This is how long it took me to recover:

    - complete layoff from tennis for 2 months
    - starting with arm and wrist flexiblity exercises for 2-4 weeks (no weights)
    - continuing with free weights (starting at 3lbs and continuing up to where I am now for biceps, at around 25lbs)

    BTW, how much biceps exercises you can do with free weights will tell you quickly where you are at any time and if you have to reduce the load or take a total break. Trust this feeling.

    I'd suggest you check my other postings on tennis elbow in this forum, I am giving there some sites for specific conditioning. I would say read everything you can in this forum on TE.
     
    #19
  20. Thanatos

    Thanatos Semi-Pro

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    Just curious as to what you meant by "shortens the length of the active muscle"? I'm not too familiar with muscle conditioning. Also did you wait for all the pain to disappear before you started the exercises? I read conflicting information. Some say that you should not rest the arm totally, which will cause muscle wasting.
     
    #20
  21. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Well, the band is applied over an area of the elbow, isn't it? That area is less free to move, thus the muscle there less active, reducing the length of the active arm in the forearm which is pulling on the elbow tendons.

    And yes, when I had my worst bout, when icing the area was not helping any more in making the pain disapppear and I could not play at all without pangs of pain in the elbow, and when I could not wash my head without pain, I totally stopped for about 2 months before starting exercises. Even if your muscle will "waste" a little, you should bring your tendon to a condition without pain first. If during _flexibility_ exercises you have pain, then you should not work with weights yet. Look for isometric flexibility exercises for your wrists and arms, they're the best.

    Check:
    http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1996/05_96/nirscpa.htm
    http://www.tennis-elbow.net/tenniselbow.htm
    http://www.scottorthopedic.com/tao/html/rehab/lateralepicondylitis.htm
    http://devweb3.vip.ohio-state.edu/Materials/PDFDocs/exer-reh/upper/wri-iso.pdf

    And I did something right, because now, and this is for two years, I don't have anything similar in terms of TE. It shows a little when I am playing too much (say 6 days of 7) or when I am using too much backscratching on serve, or if I am wristing several forehands in a row. But it disappears after 1-2 days.

    I also, insist on you CHANGING the racquet, at least for several training sessions, in order to experiment how it feels with others.

    During my most acute problems, I used a racquet by:

    http://www.mittusa.com

    which has a "rocker" technology much better than the "woofer" from Babolat:
    http://www.mittusa.com/rackets/tennis_rocker_system.htm

    It really helped me with my TE.
    However, they seem to go out or business or are being bought by others (check the announcement at their site).
     
    #21
  22. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    What is meant by "resting" is to stop playing. But the conditioning starts immediately.
     
    #22
  23. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Definitely, but only for other areas of the body. One can work e.g. on the shoulders/pecs, but not on the wrists and forearms, except if the involved exercises produce no pain. And one can work on sprints, etc.

    One cannot start even light weights until the wrist/arm flexibility exercises produce any pain.
     
    #23
  24. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Hopefully this is not too late for you,
    but you might want to read the posting by Ted in:
    Has anyone tried shock wave therapy for tennis elbow?
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=41122
    He got TE from a Pure Drive, had to go to surgery and other nasty things.

    Not something you would want to wish your enemy, thus ... forget about Babolats.
     
    #24
  25. Kirko

    Kirko Hall of Fame

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    3 yrs. ago i tried Luxilon alu big banger not only my arm hurt but my spine.
     
    #25
  26. raftermania

    raftermania Banned

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    Super head heavy (5 pts. +) do it for me.
     
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  27. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    There are plenty of new models that are more flexible than the PS 6.1 Classic. The PS 6.1 is as stiff as a board and has a RDC rating of 72. Not too many racquets rated stiffer than that!
     
    #27
  28. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    HPS 6.1 (a newer generation) seems to be only 68 in stiffness, still it attacks my elbow. Same said by my stringer.
     
    #28
  29. Jet Rink

    Jet Rink Semi-Pro

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    Good work here Joe. I do believe though you need additional choices in the poll such as "continually improving technique," and "need more conditioning!" This is surely the case for me.

    I am surprised though, in my own case, that after having learned with a wood racquet, then switched to graphite at that advent, taking a long layoff, now coming back to the brave new world of super-light, super-stiff, open stance tennis that it is not my elbow at all which has bothered me, but first my wrist (corrected due to a combination of a total revamp of my serve, a good wrist brace and the ubiquitous Dyna-Ball gyro) and now chronic, low-level shoulder soreness.

    The shoulder though goes back ten years and is something I've learned to nurse (yep, had cortisone shots too ...). But proper warm-up and a bit of ice keeps it at bay. Perpetually working on getting the surrounding muscles stronger. Afraid though to ask the doc what the "real" problem is though for fear of a worst-case response.

    I do miss heavy, flexible racquets though. Heck, I weighed a Kramer Jr. I purchased from Joe for my eight-year-old (yep - she's learnin' with wood - along with her trusty 25" Yonex which I quite like) and it is a full 2.5 ounces heavier than my n-six-one.

    Jet

    ps - Forgot to add that gut has made a tremendous difference as well. I guess now that I'm a "grown up" and not a chronic string breaker it was time anyway. ;) Helped the wrist immediately.
     
    #29
  30. equinox

    equinox Hall of Fame

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    PD+Poly+60+lbs caused me TE.
     
    #30
  31. LafayetteHitter

    LafayetteHitter Hall of Fame

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    Quite often I believe for many it is poor mechanics. Although racquets may often be the cause also.

    Scott
     
    #31
  32. matchpoints

    matchpoints Professional

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    I actually first got it about 4 years ago. I hadn't played in a year or so and then once day played a match going all out. I'm pretty sure I got it from hitting hard flat serves that day. My elbow pain stayed for a week straight, so I ended up taking a couple of months of till it went away.

    It recently started again with the use of my Pure Drive with poly strings. I really think it's still from mis hitting first serves some times.
     
    #32
  33. raftermania

    raftermania Banned

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    I overheard the owner of my proshop explaining to a customer that TE can be caused by either having your elbow too close to your body on the FH or too far away from it (I can't remember which was better). Can anybody clarify this?
     
    #33
  34. HappyLefty

    HappyLefty Professional

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    Jet, do you use Gyro or Powerball?
    What are the results?
     
    #34
  35. stc9357

    stc9357 Semi-Pro

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    A little while ago used kevlar for a clay court tourney to get tremeoundous spin and I ended up paying for it had to stop playing for two weeks. Rested the arm three days and got to doing exercises to strengthen the forearm up. Messed up thing was I had been working out but my welbow must really be sensitive to stiff strings. I haven't tried polys yet but when I do it will probaly be a soft poly like monogut.
     
    #35
  36. HappyLefty

    HappyLefty Professional

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    PD+POLY(Hurricane and ALU)+60 lbs produced my TE
     
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