love and hate relationships in the 70´s and 80´s rivalries

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by kiki, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    The deepth and contrast of characters in the 70´s and 80´s, gave a big boost to the rivalries, beyond the contrast of styles and technichal aspects.

    Here is, based on what I saw, the main rivalries under that angle.

    Laver vs Rosewall: mates and sporting rivals, could accept being beaten by the other
    Newcombe vs Laver: more hate than love.Same for Laver-Roche, a very torrid rivalry
    Newcombe vs Rosewall: they liked each other. in a similar way as Laver and Emerson did.
    Nastase vs Borg: loved each other
    Kodes and Nastase: good friends, never took bad to be beaten by the other
    Smith vs Nastase: real hate, too diferent
    Newcombe vs Smith: very sporting guys but more hate than love, both very prideful people
    Borg and Ashe: liked and respected each other.Ashe´s only bas relationship was vs Connors, who disliked so much Arthur.Ashe, instead, liked geniously Mc Enroe
    Connrs and Mac, Mac and Lendl, Lend land Jimmy: needless to say.The heat in their meetings left no air left.

    Borg vs Mac: liked each other, even if going through the possibly greatest moderne ra rivalry.Culturally, I always found them to be pretty similar, quite liberal both and willing to experience
    Connors and Borg: respected each other but somewhat, more hate than love
    Borg vs Vilas: disliked each other.Vilas and Connors hated each other.Vilas and mac were pretty good friends, but never had a big rivalry, other than Davis Cup
    Vilas and Clerc: disliked each other
    Gerulaitis vs anybody else: not possible to dilike Gerulaitis.Of couse, lendl was the only guy to REALLY HATE Vitas and I can see why
    Connors vs Tanner: not so muc talked but, a lot of hate between both of them.maybe that started when they were both juniors (Tanner was probably the guy that most supported Ashe in the 75 final)
    Connors and Smith hated each other.Connors liked a lot Nastase ( although they never played a major final against each other) and liked pretty much Kodes
    Newcombe vs Copnnors: hate
    Ashe vs Laver: almost hate.Ashe was more anxious to beat Laver than to beat Rosewall or even Newcombe 8 Newc and Ashe were pretty good friends)

    Becker and Edberg: liked each other, in spite of their fierce rivalry
    Becker and Wilander: not too much love, Mats could not stand Boris coockyness
    Edberg and Wilander: rivals from their early years.Similar to Connors vs Tanner but not so torrid
    Lendl liked Edberg...but Lendl disliked a lot Wilander and hated Becker
    Connors liked Becker but disliked Wilander and Edberg, although there was no rivalry ( Connors was getting old when they reached their peak)
    Mac disliked Becker and Wilander and him were pretty good friends, in spite of some mac´s criticism.Probably, Mac saw in Mats the guy that would fill the void left by Borg´s retiriement, that he resented so much

    I don´t know about Mac and Edberg.I know Mac disliked a bit Cash ( although they became quite close in the long term) and Cash couldn´t stand neither Lendl, neither Becker.However, was in good terms with Wilander

    Any opinions? any other rivalries forgotten?
     
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  2. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Panatta was also close to Vilas, Nastase, Borg and, for a while Connors.curiously enough, he and Gerulaitis were not too close, however.

    The olny guy he hated was, obviously....Lendl and also, although to a lesser extent, JMac.
     
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  3. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    I don't think Vilas and Connors hated each other, even if Connors didn't shake Vilas hands after USO final. And Vilas and Borg were very good friends until 1977-1978, they played the double together a lot of times.
     
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  4. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Connors was never any kind to Vilas, never considered him as a real opponent, not in the Borg and Mac league.I think he had some hard feelings about him, as he also criticized Tiriac´s overcoaching Vilas.
     
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  5. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    Pretty sure Borg and Vilas were friends.
     
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  6. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I don't remember if it was Nastase or Newcombe who said they didn't like the way Stan Smith smiled during changeovers.
     
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  7. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I think Newcombe made a comment like that in the 1971 Wimbledon final, he felt down trying to catch a volley and seems that Smith was pulling off a mockery smile, or something like that.
     
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  8. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Connors and Ashe is a lot more complicated than just hate. I've seen them laughing and joking together when Ashe was on TV interviewing Connors. Borg and Vilas were close friends initially, but grew apart after Vilas got closer to Tiriac.

    As for Gerulaitis, he obviously didn't like Lendl, as mentioned, and also had a big falling out with Fibak. There was mutual loathing between Gerulaitis and Fibak in their 1980 French Open and 1980 Wimbledon 5-set matches.

    Connors and Tanner was always an intense rivalry, but I always thought they had respect more than hate.

    Could Connors have shaken Vilas' hand, considering that the court was swamped with fans in an instant following that controversial linecall that ended the match? What was undeniable is that Connors was very bitter about how that match ended.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2012
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  9. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    Just where do you get this from? Stan Smith had real "hate" for Nastase? As a person or player?

    Really? This info is based on......????????

    Borg and Ashe: liked and respected each other.Ashe´s only bas relationship was vs Connors, who disliked so much Arthur.Ashe, instead, liked geniously Mc Enroe
    Connrs and Mac, Mac and Lendl, Lend land Jimmy: needless to say.The heat in their meetings left no air left.

    The most over-hyped rivalry.....EVER!

    Their temperaments and games were wildly different, so it obviously made for great tennis theater. But they played very little against each other, as Borg bailed out on the game.


    So outrageously untrue. Yes, Connors claimed after losing to Borg in a Wimbledon final he would follow that SOB (Borg) around the globe in order to beat him. Connors was a fierce competitor who wanted to win. It wasn't in his nature to like any competitor. And he wasn't shy about his feelings. But off the court? They genuinely liked each other.

    Another outlandish statement. They were the best of buddies on tour in the mid 1970s. The Tiriac-Vilas relationship did affect Borg. But there was no dislike. Unless in Tiriac's mind.


    Just how do you make up this stuff? Why do you think Lendl "hated" everyone?


    Ashe "almost hated Laver" I could see why Ashe hated playing Laver, because he lost so often.
     
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  10. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    Not sure about "hate" between Lendl and Becker.
    Becker spoke about Lendl in his book - I don't remember "hatred".
    They also played a little doubles together.
    Becker wasn't an unabashed fan - that's safe to say but I think that's about it.

    Just wondering where you got the idea that Wilander hated Lendl?
    I've never seen a reference to that.

    Also, Lendl hating Gerulaitis?
    Could you provide some substantiation on that please.
     
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  11. Great Uncle Bulgaria

    Great Uncle Bulgaria New User

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    I think the words 'hate' and 'obviously' have been unwittingly mis-used in the original post.

    I don't think there are many players who hate each other. There are players who feel they cannot be friends with anyone in such a competitive environment. Somewhere I read Evert told Billie Jean King they could not be friends until after they had retired; Connors was another one. And in any group of people there will some who don't get on and there will be some who are plain vindictive towards everyone.

    Becker, Cash, McEnroe all disliked Lendl - they have all mentioned at some point the first two seemed to think he was racist or something. McEnroe IMHO is jealous of Lendl.

    Perhaps any animosity between Gerulaitis and Lendl stemmed from Lendl's friendship with Fibak.

    I have never heard of Edberg disliking someone or being disliked. Then again I have never heard of Edberg being best of mates with anyone either.

    Incidentally the two autobiographies I would most like to read are Lendl and Edberg's but alas I doubt they will ever write them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
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  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    There are things you just notice if you are aware of body language...plus pro jounalist of those years that usually covered the game will tell you a few cases.

    Lendl was overhyped against Vitas and so was Vitas vs Lendl.Lendl tried to boom it at Gerulaits body on the ocassion.Maybe cause Lendl´s only real firend on the tour, Wojtek Fibak, had a few arguments against Vitas, and Lendl was somehow influenced by Fibak.

    But I thin k, Vitas flamboyant personality was something Lendl really disliked.
     
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  13. BauerAlmeida

    BauerAlmeida Semi-Pro

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    Borg and Vilas were good friends.

    Why the hate between Vitas and Lendl?
     
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  14. You Can't Be Serious

    You Can't Be Serious Rookie

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    Lendl vs. McEnroe
    Lendl nearly cracked McEnroe's ribs with a forehand. McEnroe choked the French Open final against Lendl which turned Lendl's career around.
     
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  15. You Can't Be Serious

    You Can't Be Serious Rookie

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    McEnroe/Fleming vs. Stolle/Newcombe at U.S. Open

    Talk about some friction those guys went at it on and off the court. I was there and spoke with all involved.

    Unfortunately they didn't play enough against each other to consider it a rivalry. Too bad---old school vs new school.
     
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  16. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    I was told once by a fan (so no real value regarding evidence) that Stan Smith kind of looked at all the other top players as being too decadent. He was the moral voice or something. Take that any way you want.
     
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  17. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    Cash certainly disliked Lendl - it may have been partly due to Cash's friendship with Mc.
    Cash was irritated by Lendl's treatment of some players.
     
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  18. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    The other Aussies, particularly Masur, were on good terms with Lendl, as was Sampras.
     
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  19. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    I think Vilas and Noah were very good friends.
     
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  20. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Yes Lendl helped Sampras with conditioning when he was breaking into the tour.
     
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  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Borg and Vilas were close till Tiriac took over Vilas.

    Vitas and Lendl were night and day or oil and water.No possible mixture.
     
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  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Wasn´t Connors who wrotte on the Goteborg´s clay court

    "**** YOU ARTIE "?
     
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  23. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes, that's right. But Ashe got Connors to play Davis Cup full-time in 1984 in the first place.
     
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  24. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    Yes, he let him stay at his house and practice with him.
    Took him under his wing, as they say.
    Sampras always spoke fondly of Lendl and the help he gave him.
    I wonder if Lendl ever regretted that - he took a couple of bad losses in Australia from Pete around 1992 from memory.
     
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  25. You Can't Be Serious

    You Can't Be Serious Rookie

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    Gilbert vs. McEnroe. Just read Winning Ugly. Says it all.
     
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  26. Great Uncle Bulgaria

    Great Uncle Bulgaria New User

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    McEnroe was on very bad term with Bill Scanlon. Read Scanlon's book but can't remember what the cause was.
     
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  27. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    great one, since Mac and Scanlon were so bad that Bill got to play doubles with Ivan¡¡¡¡

    Having said that, Scanlon was a very good player that baggeled Borg indoors and I think he may be the greatest non top 10 ever.
     
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  28. Pebbles10

    Pebbles10 New User

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    i think Lendl and Wilander really did respect each other! Lendl have always talked great about Wilander.

    Dont think wilander didnt like Becker. Have never heard wilander talk bad about any player.
     
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  29. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    That is very true.Scanlon hated Mac so much, he even become the only guy to team up for doubles with....Ivan Lendl¡¡¡¡.Probably, instead of tipping down each other, they spent changeovers wearing Mac down.

    I would also like to knwo where did it start up.Scanlon, in 1977, was considered the best uncoming american player and had a very good WCT tour, when he was just 20.
     
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  30. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Wilander and Edberg??? well, Edberg got married to Mats girlfriend, Annette.

    Another popular fiancee was Stacy Margolin, who dated John Mc Enroe till 1980 or 1981.
     
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  31. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    From memory I think Scanlon just got under Macs skin and Mac believing he was the chosen one let it fester.
     
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  32. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    So body language, and hearsay have determined who "hated" who on the pro tour!

    Well, there you have it!
     
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  33. looseleftie

    looseleftie Rookie

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    Lleyton Spewitt....

    Love the player, love the passion and determination, but the man, such a pi$$ poor bloke.. Poor sportsmanship, and incredibly naive and stupid at times...
     
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  34. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In Golden Era, he would be a mere upper class journeyman like Solomon or Dibbs and, in no case any better than Chang¡¡¡¡
     
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  35. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

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    Mats Wilander broke up with Annette Olsen in 1985. At the time, he was 21 and she was 19. Wilander married Sonya Mulholland, a South African model in January of 1988. I'm not sure when they started dating, but Stefan Edberg didn't marry Annette until April of 1992, seven years after her relationship with Mats ended.

    As far as I remember, all of the Swedish players were friendly and hung out with each other on the tour, including Edberg and Wilander. I don't recall either of them "hating" anyone, especially each other!

    Where did you get all of this stuff? Seems like you just made it up...
     
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  36. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    yes, I did not mean there was any bad feelings, because the flematic sweden do not let women interfere in their relationship¡¡¡ well, Edberg and Wilander knew each other longtime and their rivalry was more a competitive rivalry between 2 of the best players in the world...and, given both were Sweden, a competition between orthodoxy (Wilander) and unorthodoxy (Edberg)

    How comes Stefan loved the S&V game since he was just a kid I don´t know...maybe he hated Borg?
     
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  37. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    It was January 1987 when Mats Wilander married Sonya Mulholland. That's why Wilander didn't play the Australian Open that year, the last one held on the grass-courts of Kooyong. Wilander and Mulholland had met at the 1985 US Open, a few months after Wilander had split with Annette Olsen.
     
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  38. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I agree.

    I guess Ken Rosewall did not like Connors too much after his severe defeats by Jimbo...
     
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  39. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Oh¡ I forgot Ivan had another friend on tour not named Fibak and Scanlon...he was pretty good friends with Andres Gomez ( maybe because Ivan always beat Andres,except at their last years of play???)
     
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  40. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    No one liked Jimbo in 1974-1977, except Nastase and, to some extent Gerulaitis and Panatta.I don´t think he was much loved afterwards although many people here posted he was in excellent terms with Krickstein.I think Clerc was another guy in very good terms with Connors ( maybe cause Clerc was beating Lendl and, sometimes, Mac???).
     
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  41. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Many fans dislike hewitt but I was told he was pretty popular among his peers, not hated by all anyway for sure
     
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  42. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    whic one; Bob aor LLeyton?
     
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  43. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    There is the conception that all aussie players were comrades, and that they didn´t care if they were amateurs and pros.They knew very well each other since most had been together under Hopman or the national Federation training programs.

    Yet, in the way he talks about Roche and Newcombe you could clearly see that Laver saw them as a threat and there was a polite, yet clear fire lightening their relationships.

    OTOH, no matter how much he beat them, Laver, the man with deep roots from the countryside, was always close and on good terms with Emerson,Fraser,Hoad,Anderson.I´d say he was not as close with Rosewall but still not as far away as he felt from Newk and Rochey.

    Hoad and Rosewall had a very curious relationship.They were like twins but the press hyped their rivalry.Like two twin brothers, they couldn´t live without each other...
     
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  44. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Great list. I would add Connors vs. Rosewall: Much emotional distance, maybe a bit of hate also.
     
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  45. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    I dont agree with some of your fantasies but i will play along.

    Hewitt was not hated by everyone. rafter was buddies with leyton as well as agassi. rafter took him under his wing when he first hit the tour.

    Rios and henman were pretty good friends according to pat Mcenroe during a match commentary. For rios thats interesting because he really only ever talked to the south american and spanish clay courters from what i remember. funny he would get chummy with an englishman.

    nobody hated edberg off the court. he was a very quiet and reserved player.

    not many people liked andre when he was younger. not sure about later on.

    Pete never really talked to anyone early in his career. not sure about later once he became the force he was and developed arrogance.

    all the players liked rafter but tried to keep a distance as they were concerned with the effect he had on women....just kidding...kind of.

    Pat Mcenroe seems to be well liked from his time on the tour as well by pretty much everyone.

    Pat Cash gave mcenroe a shoulder shot in their first match on a change over. MCenroe said they were friends ever since their first encounter because in his words...this guy is going to be around for while. John Mcenroe is also full of dung half the time so you never know what you can believe.

    Sampras and Courier were pretty good buddies off the court and hung out a little. they did a lot of exhibitions together. On court they hated each other and it was very much an alpha male contest in there meetings. Petes a hard core conservative and jim is a nut-ball liberal so its an interesting friendship. Pete did not care for Bill clinton at all.

    Courier and chang used to talk crap to each other all the time throwing shots out at press conferences. they did a lot of gamesmanship in their matches as well. Not sure how that went off court. chang was really tight with his family and didnt really hang out with the guys on the tour.

    agassi ...its hard to say. he was so up and down in his career there is not telling The guy had 15 different personalities. every retired pro i have talked to said andre was the biggest punk in the locker room and everyone hated him.
     
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  46. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    well, you played a lot for fantasy games.You probably needed an excuse to get in.I gottya
     
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  47. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I would not known.Too big a generational gap.

    I always found interesting what went beyond the tennis courts.

    If we only talk about shots and records, this Forum should have been closed many years ago.

    But I can understand people are unidimensional...
     
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  48. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    the only one i made up was the rafter one with the girlfriends. i just like to have fun with rafter because he is a favorite of mine and i closely followed his career the best I could since 1993 indianapolis.

    the rest should be right unless the commentators just make up stories out of thin air when doing matches.

    second hand stories from touring pros regarding agassi could be jealousy but the ones i have talked to were some of the most down to earth low ego guys you can imagine. i am taking their word for it.
     
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  49. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I don't understand you...
     
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  50. HipRotation

    HipRotation Semi-Pro

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    Maybe Rios really hated Argentinians and thought he had an ally in Henman ;) Really bizarre pairing, could not see them hanging out together with prostitutes watching boxing matches
     
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