Love the Radical MP ... but what next?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by alm, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. alm

    alm New User

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    I've been playing happily with the LM Radical MP & the Flexpoint MP for the last 2 years but want a new frame.

    After years of misery with the LM Prestige, the radicals were a godsend. They were so much easier to swing & offered more power for a similar level of control. They’re easily the best all-around rackets I’ve played with. Most of my play is from the baseline, I only hit a moderate amount of topspin, use a SW grip & I'd say my level is no more than 4.0.

    Perhaps I'm asking for too much but I want a racquet which offers more power, control & feel without being harder to swing or any less comfortable than the Radicals.

    Can fellow players recommend me rackets they've moved onto from the Radical MP? I love 18x20 frames and am considering the Head IG Speed 18x20 but am worried that it'll have the same characteristics as the Prestige in terms of power. I wouldn't mind considering the YT IG Rad MP but think it might be less powerful than the Flexpoint I currently have.

    Thanks in advance!
     
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  2. Satch

    Satch Hall of Fame

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  3. alm

    alm New User

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    An Interesting choice ... thanks!

    I notice it's a lot stiffer, though. Was it comfortable to play with?
    FYI, with poly strings, I found the stiffness of rackets like the Head YT Extreme Pro unbearable! :(
     
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  4. Satch

    Satch Hall of Fame

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    interesting but i found it much more comfortable then LM radical for example... maybe it's the strings but still, never had pain in arm or something like that.
     
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  5. BobFL

    BobFL Hall of Fame

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    That's because your technique is superior and silky-smooth :D
     
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  6. Satch

    Satch Hall of Fame

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    haha Bob that was the time when i played at least once a week, i am little rusty now :)
     
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  7. sargeinaz

    sargeinaz Hall of Fame

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    Demo the Yonex Vcore 95D. More pop, easy to get around, just as comfortable and has a 16x20 pattern which plays very even, no funny hot spots or anything and good control.
     
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  8. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

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    I think it's a tough thing to ask for control and power to be increased. You could increase power by increasing swingweight, but you don't want to do that, ie "without being any harder to swing".

    So I think you're left with a stiffer frame, a wider beam, or a more open string bed. There are tons of 16X19 and 16X20 frames out there, but you say you want to stay 18X20. So I think maybe you're left with looking for a stiffer frame or a thicker beam, both of which will effect comfort and feel.

    I'll throw this on out there..how about just switching to the LM rad oversize? It's softer flex will make it even more comfortable than the mid, it's an 18X19 in a 107 head. It may take some experimenting with strings, but it's worth trying, and they are cheap and very easy to customize with lead. I know some "cool" people will say a 107 is a granny stick and a rocket launcher, but these things don't apply to the LM rad oversize. It's a very capable control stick that I'm actually working on switching back to from my NXG Os(a bit too much power 107 inch, 63 flex, 27.5 length) and MPs(100 inch, 63 flex but plays to stiff in upper hoop 27.25).
     
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  9. NeverGassed1212

    NeverGassed1212 Rookie

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    I would think the Technifibre 305 might be a better choice to move to from the radical. The 325 is a great stick but it can be hefty after a couple of sets. The 305 has the same 18x19 string pattern and silicone injected handle that provide good control and comfort, but the lighter weight allows you to get the racquet around a lot easier. I would have liked a leather grip and overgrip on the 305 to get the weight right around 11.5 oz strung.
     
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  10. alm

    alm New User

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    Thanks for the suggestion. I'm planning to demo a number of rackets and will include Yonex on my list.

    The 95D, on paper at least, seems like a Prestige MP kind of frame ... heavier than the radical but more headlight. The problems I had with the LM Prestige were simply a lack of depth and pace. Generating power was too much uphill struggle. I'll check out the Yonex VCore 95D and see how it feels.
     
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  11. alm

    alm New User

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    Yes, I think you've perfectly summarised the problems I face! The Radical OS is an option but I find I have to concentrate so much harder on controlling the trajectory of the ball over net, when playing with anything other than an 18x19. For it's weight, the MP Radical is pretty stable & I'm wondering if I'll lose the stability on off-centre shots with the OS.

    Contrary to many people on TW, I actually prefer the Flexpoint Radical to the LM Radical. The Flexpoint has slightly head-heavier but still easy to swing.

    With this in mind, I was hoping to find a frame with a touch more weight in the head, perhaps with a slightly larger headsize (100Sq" max) & also a tad stiffer.

    What do people think about moving from the Radical to the YT IG Speed 18x20? The TW review suggests it has less power but I've heard from others that it actually has more.
     
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  12. sargeinaz

    sargeinaz Hall of Fame

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    It definitely has more pop than a prestige MP so don't worry about that. I found it fairly easy to get depth with that frame. It has more pop than you'd expect just looking at it's specs. It's still not a pure drive or anything though.
     
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  13. royfrombigd

    royfrombigd Rookie

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    Ever think of trying one of the Blades, either K or BLX? They are 18x20 and in the same 11 ounce range as the Rad. It is stiffer and will give you more pop on serve, but might not be as comfortable. I played with a Radical for years and lack pace on serve was my biggest gripe about it. Otherwise, great stick.
     
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  14. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Before doing anything, I would look at my current string setup. More power can be easily achieved by switching to a thinner gauge string or switching to a more powerful string. You can find out your particular string characteristics at TWU or at Stringforum.net. Once you know your current setup, you can looks for strings/setups that have a little more power.
     
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  15. alm

    alm New User

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    I'm ashamed to admit that I'm slightly prejudiced against Wilson frames. I've used them in the past and noticed on more than one occasion that 2 identical wilson rackets would play or feel slightly different to each other.

    It may have been down to the strings (or possibly myself!) but I couldn't help thinking that the tolerances within which they are produced and the over quality of the product was not on par with brands like Head, Yonex or Fischer.

    I fully appreciate this is all very subjective and I could well be talking nonesense! :)
     
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  16. alm

    alm New User

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    Good point. I intend to add lead tape between 3-9o'clock' to my radicals while demoing other rackets to see how they compare. Really not sure what string I could turn to. For years I tinkered unsuccessfully many brands of powerful multi and even natural gut but only found true love when I discovered thin guage polys such as Signum Pro Tornado & RPM Blast. :)
     
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  17. alm

    alm New User

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    The fact that its not a PD is a good thing in my book. The power/control balance of that racket is not for me! I'll playtest the VCore 95d. Thanks again for the advice.
     
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  18. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    Why is everyone saying this. I don't want to demo anymore. My demo list is long enough. Now I'm tempted to give the radmp a try. Damn.
     
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  19. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    Why not go for a randical MP OS, or try the wilson BLX blade team.
     
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  20. drkplayer122

    drkplayer122 Rookie

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    Have you considered demoing the YTRMP or the IG MP? It still has that radical feel and control but provides much more pop than the LM. Also since you really like the radicals, have you experimented with lead to increase the SW and to get more plowthrough?
     
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  21. alm

    alm New User

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    Yes, the new IG MP Radicals are on top of my list to demo but I'm surprised you say they have more power than the LM or Flexpoint. Looking at the specs, they have less weight in the head than the Flexpoint and the TW power-map also indicates they have less power.
     
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  22. dussea3477

    dussea3477 New User

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    Head Youtek IG Prestige MP

    Hi,

    I was using the Liquidmetal Radical in college and have moved to the Microgel Radical for the last couple years. I really reccommend you try the IG Prestige MP. It has to be the easiest swinging Prestige I have ever used. It has a little more pop than the Radical and feels very nice on the arm. I have made the switch and am very happy with the racket thus far. I currently string mine with MSV Focus poly and have had zero arm pain.

    Good Luck!
     
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  23. NicoHK

    NicoHK New User

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    From the LM Rad MP, you could give a try to the Dunlop Bio 300 (normal or Tour version). A bit more of power, maybe less stable than the LM but definitely worth to demo. I have played with the LM Rad long time ago, but I found it too underpowered and the YT version is IMO, not less control oriented.
     
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  24. d wayne

    d wayne Rookie

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    I have used the LM Radical MP for a year now & was having some concerns about power level. I added 6 grams to the handle by installing a 1/2 size shrink sleeve & it made a huge difference. I am now getting the pace I wanted, better(more solid) feel without losing any control.
    You can get the same effect with lead or a leather grip
    If you like everything else about the racket, this seems like the most practical change to make. It costs very litte & if it doesn't work, you can then look for something else
     
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  25. alm

    alm New User

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    That's interesting. I don't know much about customising racquets but I would have that thought adding 6g to the handle wouldn't noticeably increase power.

    I imagined I'd need to add lead to the upper hoop to get more pop. Am I mistaken?
     
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  26. d wayne

    d wayne Rookie

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    The handle weight likely did not increase power, but my swing became more smooth & comfortable, which allows me to drive through the ball better. This is likely what is allowing me to now hit with better power.
     
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  27. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    String choice is a very personal thing, but you can definitely get more power out of the LM Rad by using a 17 gauge multi at 52lbs, without sacrificing too much control.

    I would personally not recommend adding much weight to the hoop, unless you intend to counterbalance with weight in the handle. As it is, the LM Rad in stock form is less head-light than most comparable players racquets.


    This is a good customization for the LM Rad - makes it more solid and more head-light without increasing swingweight too much.

    I have about 18g added to the handle of my Rads (leather grip, overgrip, lead tape). Static weight (strung) is right at 300g. Even though swingweight has not increased much, I find that I have more power because of the confidence I have in its stability. The racquet also feels like it rotates better (but could be more feel than fact).

    For context, I'm a 4.5 player and have played with LM Rads since 2006. It's a great all-around racquet and even though I've tried out other racquets in the last few years, I haven't found anything else that fits me as well.
     
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  28. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    The only Radical out there that will surpass the LM is the Ti.Radical.

    It has even more precise control, a glassy, stiff feel, and is the last of the top notch molds Head ever made in Austria along with the 600s and 630s. It needs lead in the hoop and handle though. The best part is, they can be found used for $50 these days. A great setup that will make it swing like the LM is 3g at 3 oclock, 3g at 9 oclock and a leather grip.
     
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  29. alm

    alm New User

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    The Rads weight 295g unstrung. If you've added 18g it should weigh approx 313g, no? My radicals are a couple of grip sizes small for me & I like to add a few overgrips to bring them up size ... so I imagine the specs of our frames are actually similar. Like you, I'm happy with the stability but I'd like a touch more depth & power.

    I know exactly what you mean. The radicals are great frames without being spectacular at anything. Nothing else I've tried swings so easily yet offers the precision, comfort & stability of the Radical. Many will disagree but I didn't feel the LM Prestige offered anything over & above the radical.
     
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  30. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Better than Pb, low density silicone. Sucks up any of the extra shock you'll find on off-hits/ mitigates some of the harsh feel you get from Poly. Start with lead, find a setup you like then try out the injection.
     
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  31. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Yeah I typo'd - should have been 340g not 300g. Or 12oz even if you prefer:) Strung weight that is.

    For more power, I'd encourage you again to try stringing with a 17g multi at lower tension. The Rads really respond to this, and you don't lose much control because of the dense pattern.

    I have a few LM Prestiges also... actually in terms of specs, the stock LM Prestige is very close to my customized Rads in terms of static weight, balance and swingweight. But the feel is completely different and the Prestige is under powered compared to the Rad, at least for my swing style.
     
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  32. toedragger

    toedragger Rookie

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    For what it's worth, I've been playing and customising LM Rad's, FXP Rad's, I'Rad's etc for several years now - with pretty good success. It's a great racquet for custom setups.

    But - I tried a stock IG Speed 315, 18x20 (leather grip added though) - at I honestly haven't gone back. I absolutely love it. Used my usual gut/poly string set up, about 3 lbs lighter (56/53).

    I think I'll be selling some custom (Austrian) LM Rad's soon... :) The IG Speed was a really good switch for me.

    Just an idea for you if you're looking to demo.
     
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  33. alm

    alm New User

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    Just the man I want to speak to! :)

    How would you compare the power-level of IG Speed 18x20 with the Radicals?
    I'd describe the Radical as having a muted feel. How does the IG Speed compare? Is it any harder to swing? Did you suffer any loss of precision?

    I ask because I'm considering this very frame. However, I would only make the switch if I felt the IG offered a touch more power. Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
     
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  34. toedragger

    toedragger Rookie

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    The main reason I went for the IG Speed was to gain a touch more power, and it does exactly that with no loss of control. Acutally, since the head size is 100sq, the string pattern is a 'touch' more open. It therefore bites the ball better and that's increased my spin potential in a huge way. Forehands that are swung wide open, just drop in. :)

    I added silicone to all my LM's so that muted the feel even more - but the IG Speed already has foam in the handle as a factory spec. It's not harsh at all. It actually feels very comfortable to play with. Muted? Maybe - but that's what I prefer.

    It's actually 'easier' to swing than my usually leaded up LM's. Which, is doing good things for my achy wrist and shoulder that's been bothering me for the past few months.

    I honestly can't see going back to the LM radicals at this point. This IG Speed is delivering everything (power, serve, control, comfort), and not taking anything away.

    Sounds like it's at least worth a demo for you. Enjoy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
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  35. alm

    alm New User

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    That is an encouraging summary! Thanks for the heads up. :)
     
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  36. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the tip, toedragger. Based on your recommendation I just ordered the IG Speed for demo. It will take something special to pry my LM Rads from my cold, dead hands, but hey, I'm open-minded :) Curious to see how the IG Speed plays even if the chances of my actually switching are pretty low.
     
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  37. toedragger

    toedragger Rookie

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    Well folks, let me say I was a 'die hard' Austrian LM rad player. It wasn't until this racquet that I ever found a reason to finally switch. It is however, a string-picky stick. Tention and string choice can totally ruin, or totally complete this racquet. My found choice has been natural gut mains, at 56 - poly crosses at 53. Enjoy your demos.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
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  38. Frankc

    Frankc Semi-Pro

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    Agreed, a very picky frame - true with the Microgel Radical MP, also. Yes natural gut with poly mains was good - likewise a tight soft multi - MCS. I agree with the earlier post, adding weight changes the frame far for the better - more very controllable power - agreed, add to butt and at 9 X 3... changes everything
     
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  39. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    I find the TW power maps linked below each racquet very helpful (and they have kept historical data from previous models as well). Great comparison of power tool.

    I loved the LM Rad and didn't change for years. But as the years started to add up I've wanted a bit more added power, and in competitive matches a bit of additional error-correction.

    So have tried these recently:

    IG Speed 300 - still a bit too low powered

    IG Speed Elite - using this now, leather grip, may add lead, has additional power which is welcome, little bit unstable, 64 stiffness is ok

    IG Instinct - at 69 stiffness it is a bit of a bone shaker (ouch)

    May try coming Wilson 6.1 Team but will check out its power map first.

    I remember there used to be a lot of diss-ing of the LM Rad on these boards. Then slowly that changed as people perhaps saw it as a good platform for customisation or as a good bargain frame.

    What is really motivating you to change though? Need additional power, or precision or something else?

    For me it was needing power, but also just a little lighter. I found that in say a three hour match I tired and got too predictable with it...
     
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  40. alm

    alm New User

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    Yes, I think they're useful. However, I haven’t taken the time to understand whether these figures are calculated for a stationary or moving racquet. If the answer is stationary, then the figures completely ignore power levels when the racquet is swung through the air, which is arguably far more useful information.

    My motivation for change is also power. I love the radicals from the day I picked them up but I want more of everything! I wouldn't describe the LM or Flexpoint Radical as demanding frames but they require early preparartion & some serious head speed to produce consistent deep & pace. I'd love to find a frame which can generate the similar level of power with a slower head speed but still offer me the precision of the radical.

    That may sound like wishful thinking but I switched from the prestige to the radical, enjoying better depth & pace without, IMO, losing any control. If I can take another step in this direction with the IG Speed 18x20, I'll be a very happy man! :)
     
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  41. Mateo

    Mateo Rookie

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    I found my love and game with Radical youtek mp.
    Tried:
    Head speed mp (white one) - good racquet but the feel was not included.
    Head youtek prestige mp - high swing weight was not suited for my style of game.
    Head radical microgel mp- great stick but very low powered.
    Head pro tour 630 - something like prestige, but maybe better on touch shots than PMP. To demanding.

    And now YT radical mp:
    leather grip with two over grips, 5g of lead in handle, 2g of lead at 3' and 2g on 9', the racquet plays great, weight 338 grams. (great set up is also if you put 2 g of lead at 7&5).

    Great depth, serving is strong and you have great feel of the racquet's heft, spin is great and you can really attack the ball. At net the Rad really shine, great ball pocketing and speed.

    Maybe the best thing is control of the ball, and pop (power) that the racquet got from lead customization.

    For me at the moment this is it.
     
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  42. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    :lol::lol::lol:

    You have done some extensive customisation on your YT Rad MP.

    Did you just do all that in one go, or was it trial and error, and you arrived at your current setup over time?

    I tried a lot of lead and lead positions on the LM Rad but never achieved a final setup which satisfied me. Typically perhaps I wasn't methodical enough about it.

    These are fantastic frames for customisation but do you think the created differences in power are that large? I tend to think power level isn't that much altered. Yes, there is nothing like lead at 12, but power seems to be something inherent in the stringbed or the frame's layup itself???
     
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  43. Mateo

    Mateo Rookie

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    These are fantastic frames for customisation but do you think the created differences in power are that large? I tend to think power level isn't that much altered. Yes, there is nothing like lead at 12, but power seems to be something inherent in the stringbed or the frame's layup itself???[/QUOTE]

    It was definitely trial and error. I have tried almost every lead position, even at some point Rad was at 355g  but this set up was too much.
    As I mention my current set up is best suited form my game.
    About power for my style of play it is now on highest power level. I can put full swing on my forehand and the ball will be deep in court, but not in out. I play with full poly and with this kind of set up from my opinion the power level is really good.
    Maybe if you put lot of top spin on your ball the shot can be sometimes little without meat on it.
    The lead helped on the power level, and tension in my case is main 24kg cross 23 or sometimes 1 kg lower.
    YT Rad is low powered frame but at the same time it is good on the control side, it has more power than Prestige MP and Rad microgel.
     
    #43
  44. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    So I decided to demo the IG Speed - it arrived on Thurs, and I hit with it for an hour on Fri evening and then some more this morning.

    I really enjoyed hitting with it. I agree with you on your observation of a bit more power, but still easy to control, and also a touch more spin. It felt easy to swing. Also I liked the feel - not that much different from my customized LM Rads.

    I was not expecting to like it as much, and after the hitting session on Fri night, I was thinking that there is going to be a $400 expenditure in my near future on two of these!

    But: While hitting with it today, I started feeling some tingling in my elbow. I have had bouts of tennis elbow before, and so I know the warning signs for me. It's a pity because I was enjoying it, but elbow/arm health comes first for me. The racquet did seem to carry more vibrations than I would like. My customized LM Rads cause me no issues at all.

    To be fair, I was playing with the TW stringjob (looked like 16g synth gut at medium tension) rather than my regular setup (17g multi at slightly lower tension), so it's possible that this would make a difference. Also, I would probably add (a little) weight on the handle end (probably just leather grip + overgrip so maybe adding 10-15g). Could be this would solve the issue, but it's enough of a concern that I won't be pulling the trigger. Maybe down the line if I can pick a used one up for cheap I'll try playing around with it.

    Bottom line: Nice stick and definitely worth a demo. For a LM Rad user that has no arm/elbow issues, and/or is willing to take a chance by buying and then playing around with different setups, this can be a great stick. But if you are senstitive to arm/elbow issues, make sure you demo for long enough to make sure you're not going to have a problem.
     
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  45. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    which version of the Speed ???
     
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  46. toedragger

    toedragger Rookie

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    Orange - thanks for posting on your thoughts on the IG Speed 315 18x20. It's is quite similar to my customized LM rads as well. I too whet through a bout of nasty TE, so I feel your pain. But my current set up plays so smooth and soft on the racquet, I don't get any bad vibes at all.

    Personally, I did swap out to a leather grip (& overgrip) and felt it was a huge improvement. Also, a 17g gut or soft multi in the mains, strung several pounds lighter than your usual will make all the difference on this one.
     
    #46
  47. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    IG Speed 315 18x20
     
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  48. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Messages:
    4,047
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    Yeah I suspect that you're right; I'm just not prepared to lay out the $$$ to buy new so I can play around with the setup with no guarantee that it will end up working for me. For sure the first changes I would make are in line with yours. But I'll keep an eye out in case I can find a used one for a reasonable price / trade.
     
    #48

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