Low Friction Poly X's For Gut Mains : Softer Alternative to MSV Co-Focus?

Discussion in 'Strings' started by ChicagoJack, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. comeback

    comeback Professional

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    i use chap stick (lip balm) sometimes
     
  2. corners

    corners Legend

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    It can, especially if the inter-string friction forces are high enough to more or less prevent the mains from sliding along the crosses. This is the case with notched syngut, or a soft and gooey multi. The strings literally don't move, or only barely move - here, the launch angle is low and more energy goes into horizontal ball speed.

    But with setups where there is initially very low inter string COF, things are a bit different. The TW Professor found that when the main strings slide sideways (tangentially) during impact, but then fail to snapback, the result is a high launch angle and diminished spin. The net result, obviously, will be greater depth. These effects are due to what he calls the normal force offset. However, when the mains are free to snapback into place as the ball is leaving the strings, this snapback gives a spin boost that more than cancels out the normal force offset.

    And this is why I suggested using a lubricant to figure out what is going on. If the problem is high inter-string friction as a result of notching, denting or scuffing of either the mains, crosses or both, then a lubricant will lower the inter-string friction forces and the mains should go back to sliding and snapping back enough to counter the normal force offset and restore depth control (which could be called spin control here).


    It also might not be so cut and dried - the problem might be a combination of increasing inter-string friction and massive tension loss in the crosses, in which case the effect of the lubricant would be hard to predict. Therefore, the lubricant experiment might not be perfectly diagnostic in the case of TheEpitomeofAwesome's gut/ZX stringjob, but it should, at the very least, suggest which factor is causing the problem.

    Of course, there might not actually be a problem. Tennis players are notorious for blaming all sorts of things on their equipment. But given this particular posters' username, I think we should be confident in his subjective perceptions. :)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  3. corners

    corners Legend

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    Yeah, baby oil will work but it's kind of messy. Do you have any silicone spray around the house? This is probably the most convenient lubricant to use - just a quick spray to both sides and you're done. Silicone spray is also really cheap and available at any hardware store or Walmart, target, et al.

    If baby oil is all you got, though, I would put a little bit on a paper towel. Rub it all over the stringbed, both sides. If you want to be really conscientious, give each main string a strum (like a guitar) so that it slides into the baby oil and drags it back into the intersections. After that, use another paper towel to lightly wipe or blot the surface of the strings to remove excess. Oil applied like this should last 30 minutes of drilling and maybe an hour of point play. In any case, you should pretty quickly get a feeling for whether the oil has returned the stringbed closer to how it performed initially.

    Too bad you don't have another frame strung identically and of similar age. A side to side comparison would be super informative. Nonetheless, I'd be very interested to hear what happens.

    Another benefit of lube is that it cleans the strings of dirt. Dirt could definitely increase inter-string friction too.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  4. EpitomeOfAwesome

    EpitomeOfAwesome Rookie

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    I did put baby oil 4-5 times during the one month that the strings were on. I used the same process you mentioned except I used rags of old cotton t shirt instead of paper towel.

    I had to cut it out today because I needed fresh string job for upcoming USTA matches and the setup In its current state was not even worth as a back up stick.
     
  5. Gyswandir

    Gyswandir Rookie

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    Ok, first of all, sorry for the necromancy.
    I've just tried gut/zx last night and my first impression is very positive. I normally strung gut/poly at 50/45 in EZone Xi98, before my TE. Coming back, I have been using gut/recoil (dubai has tons of recoil still being sold) at the same tension. Frankly, haven't liked it that much, as it still feels stiffish and has limited power, while spin is meh.

    So, I've finally tried gut/zx at 50/48:
    Likes: spin, pocketing and comfort. For me, It is actually more comfortable than gut/gut at 55. Almost reminds me of the feeling gut gave, when I was a junior some 25 years ago
    Dislikes: strings don't snap back consistently (spin is fine, though) and for the first time of any string job I'd say too much power.

    So, I know that people have advocated a higher tension. My question is this: based on my favorite string jobs in terms of power, comfort and spin, what tension should I use:
    Best power/spin: babolat gut team/hepta twist at 50/45 (the setup that gave me TE after Hepta Twist died)
    Best comfort: last night's setup NG Team/monogut at 50/48

    I've been thinking 52/50 or 54/50?
     
  6. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    ^Hi Gyswandir -

    1. Of the two choices you offer, I'd recco 54/50.

    2. Of of the luxuries of owning 9 matched frames is that I don't have to decide on one tension, and wonder if I have guessed right. Personally, I get a good mix of control, comfort, and spin with Gut mains at the 60, and poly or Zx crosses at 52-54.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  7. Gyswandir

    Gyswandir Rookie

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    Thx Chicago. Wil try it on my next string job
     
  8. ultradr

    ultradr Hall of Fame

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    Do electronic stringers have this option of "10 second pull"?
     
  9. wmrhawk

    wmrhawk Rookie

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    It depends on the machine. Mine has speed adjustment and pre-stretch adjustment, plus it pulls for 30 seconds before beeping and counting down from 30. The speed adjustment is meant to obviate the need to wait while the machine is pulling (along with the pre-stretch adjustments).
     
  10. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    I'm planning on stringing two racquets gut/poly. The first one is my signature racquet, which is low in twist weight. My Aerogel 200 is medium in twist weight. Because of the twistweights, I'm thinking of using Outlast (softer) in the crosses of the MuscleWeave and Big Hitter Silver for crosses in the Aerogel.

    Also, the Aerogel has M-fil along the sides of the hoop to cushion the response of the crosses. I usually only string this frame full bed at even tensions because of this design.

    For these racquets, does it make sense to string the MW with Pacific Classic 16L / Outlast 1.20 @55/50 and the Aerogel with PC 16L / BHS 1.20 @55/52? My reasoning is that the more buttery MW might need a softer cross string and the more rigid Aerogel might need a stiffer cross string and 2 lbs. more tension to compensate for the M-fil.

    Thanks for reading my post. Am I on the right track here?
     
  11. SCRAP IRON

    SCRAP IRON Professional

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    Hey Jack-

    The extremes in tension that you have suggested, Natural Gut mains at 60 lbs and Poly at 52 lbs would give me pause. First of all, can that difference in tension damage the racket? Secondly, because Gut holds its tension and poly does not, your suggested hybrid could result in a very short duration of effective play-ability. Perhaps your actual experience trumps what I think to be the case.
     
  12. epicondylitis

    epicondylitis New User

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    I am OOC for 8 weeks, recovering from right arm surgery (olecranon fracture/excision and medial epicondylectomy/ulnar nerve release), so I thought I would update my "findings". I settled on a Head Radical S strung with Babolat Tonic+ 17 in the mains and Mosquito Bite 18 in the crosses, both at 60#. In the 4 months or so I have been using this, I have converted 3 other local players to this string setup (all 4.0's). Everyone who has tried it, loves it. The combination of spin, control, power, and durability is ridiculous. The strings play consistent from the first match to the minute they break. I use a semi western forehand grip and average duration of strings is 40 to 50 sets of doubles. Players who hit big topspin and a western grip will likely get about half the service life before main breakage. Frequent application (once a set) of silicone lubricant extends the life significantly, and promotes some nasty spin. Except for the cost, I can't see a downside. YMMV
     
  13. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Best Poly Strings for Crosses in Natural Gut Hybrids (non-textured):

    MSV Co-Focus - still the best
    Yonex Poly Tour Pro 125
    Tecnifibre Black Code
    Kirschbaum Pro Line No. II
    Signum Pro Poly Plasma
    Prince Beast XP
    WeissCANNON Silverstring
    WeissCANNON Scorpion
    Signum Pro Hyperion

    STRING TENSION NOTES: String Poly 10% Lower than other string to obtain same effective tension. Restring about every 10-12 hours of play (about every three weeks).
     
  14. Aretium

    Aretium Professional

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    What is this 2010!?!?!

    Expensive but best - Head Hawk. BOOM
    Average feel but similar performace and cheap - Solinco Outlast.
     
  15. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    These are CROSS strings, right?!

    The main strings provide 80% of the characteristics of the stringbed. You want HAWK in the mains, I can see that. With GUT in the mains, however, you want the most slippery poly you can get (at the lowest price possible - unless you get it free like the pros or have money to burn for no good reason).

    BOOM!
     
  16. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    These are CROSS strings, right?!

    The main strings provide 80% of the characteristics of the stringbed. You want HAWK in the mains, I can see that. With GUT in the mains, however, you want the most slippery poly you can get (at the lowest price possible - unless you get it free like the pros or have money to burn for no good reason). That is why MSV Co-Focus has been the standard - slippery, playable, and cheap. Note the title of the discussion thread.

    BOOM!
     
  17. tomseek

    tomseek New User

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    I think he means cross b/c not many people are talking about Outlast and Hawk as mains.

    Tom
     

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