Low, low tensions. 30lbs feels great. 20lbs pretty good, too

Discussion in 'Strings' started by TW Staff, Mar 25, 2010.

  1. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    When I strung up Pro Supex Big Ace 1.25mm full bed at 32lbs, there was no "snap" at all.

    The strings did not have any form of stretchability nor flexibility. It was like playing with a ping-pong bat without the harshness.

    For polys, I still prefer to string them in the mid-40s. That's when they alive for me :)
     
  2. Old Chemist

    Old Chemist Rookie

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    Hey U-S,

    I think this may depend on the Poly. I know this is only anecdotal, based on only two strings, but I found in my hands, Discho Big Blue played better at 30 lbs than at 46 lbs, while Golden Set Hex played better at 48 lbs than at 30 lbs.

    I plan on trying a few more polys down the road to see how they play. I am thinking that maybe the stiffer polys play better at the extreme low tensions while more powerful or softer polys play better at higher tensions. I have never tried Pro Supex Big Ace so can't really comment directly on it.
     
  3. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for letting us know - great info!!
     
  4. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    Old Chemist,

    Thanks for sharing this!
     
  5. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    I think I will end up somewhere in the high 40's for 18x20 rackets, and perhaps low 50's for 16x19. Thats for syn gut. I still need to find the range for poly. 33 lbs felt too soft in my K90 and 48 harsh, so probably around low 40's.
    Edit: That is for Gosen OG Sheep and polylon. I have a dogma about trying to stick to cheap strings.
    Edit edit: I know this is not exactly elt.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  6. fullpolyserve&volley

    fullpolyserve&volley New User

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    Genesis Spin x in the low 40's is legit!
     
  7. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    I haven't used my PC600 in many years but decided to string one up with Signum Pro Tornado 1.17mm at 41/38lbs[I usually play with my Yonex 001 90s with softer polys in the high 50's].

    What can I expect?
     
  8. yourmailman

    yourmailman Rookie

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    Sander,

    I believe the PC600 has a flex rating of 63. That is right about in the middle of most racquet stiffness.

    My suggestion would be to string one up at 41/38 and see what advantages, or disadvantages you experience when you play it.

    I would also take the other one and string it up at say 31/29 and compare the two.

    Also, you might try a fairly soft syn-gut (18 gauge is my fave). It's fairly cheap and will get you used to the lower tensions rather quickly.

    My experience is that the low 40/high 38 will only give you a small taste of what you can do at the ELT level (right around 30). Plus, I did experience a little arm fatigue in the 40's that absolutely vanished when I went down to ELT.

    I now have 5 converts to the ELT revolution here in Arizona and one in Michigan. The ones that worked their way down said that they wish they had just taken the leap of faith and gone strait to 30. My men's doubles partner is in that period right now. He was at 65/64 and is already down to 50. He likes it and wants to go lower in a few weeks. I am going to suggest that he skips the 40s all together. He hits with quite a bit of spin. When I let him borrow my 30# Dunlop Bio 100 (which is much heavier than his Prince). He was hitting some great shots, but he wants to be cautious.

    When I dropped him down to poly at 55, he said he couldn't really tell the difference because the poly was so stiff. At 50, we went with syn-gut, which he liked a lot better. I'm pretty sure that when he gets down to ELT, it will blow his mind how much his shots improve.

    As I said before, you don't know if you will like it unless you try it. So far 100% of my converts say they either like it or love it. Although I have seen several people om this thread say it was not for them.

    One downside I experienced is that my confidence has risen dramatically. That's good in itself, but I actually find that I am getting to the ball early, which throws my timing off. I recover most of the time, but sometimes it gets a little ugly.

    When my timing is on, though, my ground strokes, volleys, drop shots, and OH slice backhands are things of beauty. My serve has suffered for the past few weeks due to a bruised bicep, but it is coming right back as it heals. I doubles last night I had 6 aces.

    I said it before, and I'll say it again ... Just try it. You may love it and never go back, or you may not like it and want to return to your normal tensions. All I can say from anecdotal observation is that everyone I have enlisted in the ELT Revolution has really liked it once they adjusted to it. But if it's not for you...it's not for you. Go where you are comfortable and play your best tennis. 8)
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  9. allenkau

    allenkau Rookie

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    Did you ever try a stiffer Poly for the APGT?
     
  10. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    Thank you for all that! I look forward to trying things out
    The lowest I've gone is 46lbs with Sharky Spike or Black Shark or whatever. It was an interesting experience and I especially loved volleying with it but groundstrokes felt weird, almost jarring[though not super uncomfortable]. I did like it overall, even if I was hoping for more spin.
    I'm definitely going to be trying this much more though I'll be taking baby steps and step 1 is to hit with this PC600.

    What is ELT?
     
  11. drak

    drak Professional

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    believe it is "extremely low tension"

    A Q to the guys who like 30ish with syngut. Is it like Poly then that you want to cut the strings out after 8-10 hrs?
     
  12. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    ELT = Extreme Low Tension. So about 30 lbs give or take. For my 18 x 20 Donnay X-Platinum I'm going down to 25 lbs from 35 lbs
     
  13. yourmailman

    yourmailman Rookie

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    Just ordered some more natural gut. I'm gonna try 25 as well.
     
  14. drak

    drak Professional

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    You ELT gut guys, how long is a full gut job lasting? I asume there is no playability decline until it breaks?
     
  15. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Cool - I was going to get some Klip 18 ga but someone (I'm thinking you;<)

    got the last of it. Should be restocked soon

    Cheers
     
  16. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    Who does the DC London Tour play in very very low tenisons?
     
  17. yourmailman

    yourmailman Rookie

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    I am at about 36 hours with no decline. Tension seems to be holding very well and playability is great.
     
  18. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    From my experience, the syn gut does not go dead like poly after 8-10 hrs. I did feel a very gradual and small tension loss after a few hours of very hard hits. The unusually harder hits were due to the extra spin curling the ball into the net. So I needed more drive to get it across.

    The "big" drop in tension seem to happen at about the 8-10 hours mark. Or it could be due to me leaving the racket in a friend's car in the hot sun :oops:

    But it remains playable and comfortable. I've actually recorded almost every session I had with my first ELT stick at the link below.

    http://unorthodoxstringing.blogspot.sg/2013/02/wilson-psc-61-synthetic-gut-30-lbs.html

    :)
     
  19. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    Awaiting your report eagerly!!!

    On a sidenote, I was still thinking about benefits of ELT when i came across a very very slightly cracked racket.

    Then i thought, since ELT is strung at only HALF the poundage of what the racket is designed for, wouldn't that open up more fanciful stringing opportunities?

    For one, I'll string up that minor cracked frame. Full protective gear on of course!

    Another thought could be stringing one-piece bottom up (against some manufacturers' advice). That'll save us some hard weaves and avoid going around the racket.

    Hey! I may even dig out an unwanted stick and do a zigzag pattern!:lol:
     
  20. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    I do believe this is also because of loss of power with elt, which again works as a relative increase in spin. And it is why I do not think elt will be for me since most of my rackets are low powered (90", 18x20 and so on).
    It could be interesting to try it in a higher powered racket. My PS Classic comes to mind. But what happens when the snap back goes? Well I will have to see.
     
  21. drak

    drak Professional

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    Thx for the reply. Is your gut at 30lbs? And how is the power level and spin potential at ELT for gut vs syngut - is there a significant difference?

    some comments here say that 30lbs may actually have too little power for some rackets/players. So I am wondering if gut boosts the power that enough to reach a better blend of power/control/spin?
     
  22. drak

    drak Professional

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    as I wrote in another post is gut then perhaps an ever better alternative for someone like you who might want a little more power and perhaps even spin at ELT's near 30 lbs?
     
  23. Trippisthebest

    Trippisthebest New User

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    What strings seem to do very well at ELT? Polys, multis, sun guyt?
     
  24. drak

    drak Professional

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    in the beginning of this thread it was thought that Poly would be THE string to use at low tensions and there seemed to be little or no syngut or gut testing at ELT. It appears over the last sever weeks? Months? that using a syngut or multi or now even gut at ELT tension is perhaps superior. when I begin playing again is a week or so I will try this out on one of my frames.
     
  25. yourmailman

    yourmailman Rookie

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    The poly I used ( TF Red Code 18 ) seems a bit stiff for my tastes. A hybrid setup goes a long way in alleviating that problem. But an all syn-gut string bed is far superiors IMHO. If you really want to see some action, I recommend going natural gut all the way.

    Try the syn-gut first, if you are worried about price, and if you like the results, try natural gut. I was very pleasantly surprised. I love the all nat-gut at ELT!
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  26. drak

    drak Professional

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    "If you really want to see some action, I recommend going natural gut all the way.

    Try the syn-gut first, if you are worried about price, and if you like the results, try natural gut. I was very pleasantly surprised. I love the all nat-gut at ELT!"




    great, can you give us a detailed synopsis of why gut is the best for you? thx

    Drak
     
  27. SOY78

    SOY78 Semi-Pro

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    Just tried ELT 35# on a Volkl Tour 10 V Mid strung with ProSupex Big Ace 1.22 and a BB London Tour strung with Polyfibre Poly Hightech 1.20. All I have to say is they both feel great. Last Friday all I was doing is working on consistency just hitting at the baseline for 2 hours straight. The feel from those copoly's were amazing. You can even volley with those. Didn't try any serves but baseline shots were awesome. Hitting flat could be a challenge at first but I had to adjust and not hit flat that much. No way I am going back to poly in the 50's :)
     
  28. yourmailman

    yourmailman Rookie

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    Hey Drak,

    The natural gut has a nicer feel to it than the syn-gut (for me, anyway). It seems to give me a little more rotation on the ball and a little more pop on my serve than the syn-gut. Granted, it's not much more, but there is definitely a difference. As I said earlier, I was really hoping there wouldn't be a noticeable difference between the syn-gut and the natural because of the big price discrepancy. But there is.

    Plus, it seems like the playability is still there in the nat-gut after a lot of use.
     
  29. drak

    drak Professional

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    thx and that makes sense. Did you feel the control of gut at ELT was as good as the syngut?
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  30. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    Ok, I took the bait. Just strung a frame with ogsm 17 at 30 lbs... will see tomorrow!
     
  31. drak

    drak Professional

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    doin OGSM is a no brainer to try as cheap as it is. good luck and please report back
     
  32. yourmailman

    yourmailman Rookie

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    I would say it may be a bit better than syn-gut.
     
  33. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    just a friendly report on my experience with low tensions. I have a 2013 APD, and when I first got it, i strung it @ 54 lbs (BHB7 17). Tension was perfect, aside from the wrist pain. I could swing as hard as I want and it almost never went out. Laser-like control. I won 6 doubles matches in a row with that thing...

    Fast forward to current setup: 44 lbs, absolute launch pad. Couldn't keep the ball in play. unforced error after another. I had to revert to slice backhands and slow, weak forehands just to keep it in play. Still won, but by the skin of my teeth.

    Noticed no difference in pain though, it still hurt. I may just string it back up to 54 lbs and use it sparingly instead.
     
  34. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the report! Sorry it didn't work for you.

    Do you string your own racquets? If you gamble on one more set of string and string it at 30 or 25 lbs, as several have reported that 40's is no man;s land for string tensions.

    I have a Yamaha Secret 04 which was totally unplayable - it launched balls everywhere with syngut at high 50's. With Poly at 30 lbs it was amazing - total power with control. and no pain even though the Secret 04 is a brick.
     
  35. yourmailman

    yourmailman Rookie

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    Totally agree with the analogy about the 40's being no-man's land.

    Talking with a friend and he put it very succinctly ... Don't try to sneak up on ELT.

    Everyone I know that has worked their way down had issues in the 40's, but when you get down to real ELT (30#) a lot of things will change. I didn't really like the 40's and even the high 30's. When I got down to 32 and 30, it was a world of difference, and I not only liked it ... I loved it.
     
  36. eman resu

    eman resu Semi-Pro

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    How low should I go, then to avoid no man's land on a racquet as dense as a Wilson Rok (prestige-like 93 and 18x20)? Will 30 be low enough? Still worried because I've decided to adopt a placement style game, and I don't know if ELT would work. On the other hand, I would love some extra forgiveness on my Rok.
     
  37. eman resu

    eman resu Semi-Pro

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    Another question: what would be the pro/cons of ELT for a beginner who hasn't quite put her strokes in order (my girlfriend)? Would it make a difference for her, positive or negative?
     
  38. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Thank you, yes I do string my own racquets so I don't mind trying new things. I buy BHB7 by the reel, so no big deal in wasting string. I'll take your advice and try 34 lbs next time and see what happens.
     
  39. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    As stated, definitely try in the 30's. For some reason, I've found as well, that low 40's don't work particularly well either.

    -Fuji
     
  40. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Very cool - looking forward to the report!

    Cheers
     
  41. yourmailman

    yourmailman Rookie

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    What level would you rate her? I would say that anyone that is a 3.0 or above could benefit from ELT. My mixed doubles partner right now is a 3.0. We were getting killed in our league, then I introduced her to ELT. She is now hitting some shots that I have never seen her make before, and doing it more and more often.

    My best guess is it's either the ELT or my immense talent is rubbing off on her. :lol:

    Have her give it a try.
     
  42. eman resu

    eman resu Semi-Pro

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    We don't have these numbers here, but she's lower than 3.0, probably.

    Anyway, I decided to try 30lbs with Babolat Nvy on my customized Wilson Rok (360g 10pts HL, 5g spread at the sides 3 and 9). Couldn't play yet, but so far it feels weird hitting against my hand, and I don't know if it's in a good way. Sweetspot doesn't feel bigger. Reminds me of finding an used 80s racquet with very old unknown strings at unknown tension at a store. I usually likes how they play, so maybe I'll be good.

    I can only play tomorrow, if the weather allows, so lets give it a chance to hit some balls before saying anything.

    By the way, this 17 gauge stringbed at 30 weights the same as my previous 16 syn gut at 50.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
  43. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    Got to try the ogsm 17 @ 30 tonight. Played two sets first with my regular setup. Brought out the 30, immediately the UE count went way up. A few balls flying way long, quite a few slices/block returns flying high and wide. Settled in a little after a few games but still way more UEs and really holding back on FH. Obviously, there is some adjusting needed. But, despite all that, there is something very pleasant, almost addicting about it. I continued enjoying it and wanting to keep trying even though I wasn't playing as well!

    Here were my general results:

    Serving was great, good first serve % and kick serve was fantastic, like slingshotting the ball into the BH corner!

    FH- really hard for me to attack with flat FH. My FH was essentially demoted to a rally shot except for a few spinny short angle shots which were nice.

    BH- rally shot was fine but also hard to attack. Almost everytime I went up the line it sailed long.

    Volley/OH- excellent. Point and shoot, ball just sinks into the stringbed and shoots in a straight line. I could see playing S & V with this setup.

    Slice- offensive slices were fine but defensive slices really popped up on me and often sailed wide. Happened repeatedly.

    Feel- delightful. As I said, even though I was playing worse I was really enjoying it! Something very appealing about it!

    I'll probably keep this in the bag and mess around, maybe try some S&V with it, but so far I find I really can't flatten out any groundies like this which the main part of my game! I could see someone really grooving with it if their aggressive shots are all topspin. I just don't see how you smack a flat FH like this though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
  44. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    Thanks for the detailed updates!

    A flat hitting playing partner encountered the same problems. On his other racket with similar specs, i increased the tension from 30 to 34 lbs and he liked it immediately! It's a 100 sq in frame.

    From my tests, it seems the frame size matters. I think Yourmailman uses a Bio 100 racket. That's 90 sq in with a 16x19 pattern.

    When I strung my 95 sq in 16x18 PSC6.1 at 30 with 17g syn gut, it did feel a little too loose. But it's still playable although the pocketing feels much deeper than I expected, even on the first few hits.

    After more than 10 hrs of hard hits, the pocketing became so deep that sometimes the ball clips the inside bottom edge of the frame on topspin shots! :shock: I thought I hit the frame on the outside until my partner pointed it out to me. :oops:

    I want to clock some more hours on that strings to observe how it wears before I cut them. Then, I'll probably up the tension to 32 or 33 lbs with the same string.

    Another observation is the differences between multi and syn gut became very very pronounced with ELT. I could still feel the diff at 60+ lbs, but in the 30s, they behave much more differently.

    Multi plays much "stiffer" and more stable than syn gut strung at ELT. Vibration dampening really shines for multi. Harsh rackets, typically Wilson Hammers, or very stiff light weight head heavy frames became so smooth and arm-friendly when multi was used as mains with syn gut cross. It was so comfortable that my playing partners did not even want to put on their usual dampeners!

    After reading Yourmailman having so much fun with ELT nat gut, I finally ordered some... Gosh! Shipping is so ex to my part of the globe!!!
     
  45. yourmailman

    yourmailman Rookie

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    U-S,

    Yeah, I am having a blast with the nat-gut at 30 (now shows as 29 on my tension app).

    I played with it again tonight, and still no loss of playability. Plus, we had several 14 to 18 shot rallies. I ended up winning most of them.

    One thing I did notice tonight is that I was having trouble returning serve. Not sure why. I did have a few that were great. My opponent was putting the majority of his first serves to my backhand side (with lefty spin). When I was able to get my racquet on it, with no forward motion, it would clear the net and drop rapidly with enough backspin to be unreachable for him.

    Several of his second serves to my forehand went into the net, which is unusual for me. I think I was having a problem picking up the ball on his serve. But if we got into a rally, the odds were that I would win the point.

    My new set of nat-gut should be here tomorrow. I am thinking of using it in my PS 6.0 85. I really like the feel of the racquet, and want to see what net-gut at 30 feels like in it. Currently, it has poly ( TF Red Code 18 ) at 34. Probably won't be able to test it until next week, but will report back when I do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  46. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    Yourmailman,

    Do you think you can measure the length and width (in mm) of your PS 6.0 85 frame when it is unstrung? Either the internal of the hoop or the external from 12 to 6 and 9 to 3 would be good.

    I have an oldie but no one has any idea of its specs, not even headsize! Even emails to Wilson were unanswered. I have no clue at what tension to string it up :-?

    Thanks!
     
  47. eman resu

    eman resu Semi-Pro

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    Quick review after 4 hours of doubles: The rok was playing like my Ozone tour.

    More spin (nothing out of this world, but hey, it's a rok - if it were my ozone tour I'd probably be nadal by now)
    More power, but in a controlable way
    Big increase in sweetspot and dwell time. That's what I was looking for and I got it. Happy.
    I was volleying very well during warm ups, very effortlesly. During matches, however, and especially as I got more tired, I felt I could'nt finish points well. I wasn't feeling confident to put away those balls or to confidently distinguish a lob from a drop shot. Never thought I'd say that, but I missed the crispness of my Ozone. Maybe I should have gone with a stiffer string to sart with. Very very comfortable, though, and might work really well for me on singles, but not so much on doubles.

    Now the reason why it didn't work for me, in the end: it SUCKED on serves. No power, spin, nothing. I rely a lot on my serve, and I had a terrible time adjusting to the feel and lack of power. Many double faults and I was pushing it with zero confidence as my flat, slice and kick attempts failed over and over again. Felt really dead. Never got a great felling serve with this ELT. The rok isn't my favourite racquyet to serve anyway, but I don't think I'll try on my Ozone.

    All in all, I have an easier to play with racquet, wich was my goal. But serving really sucked, and that's a huge part of my game.
     
  48. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    I've tried ELT on two frames now, one frame my flat serve lost 10-15 mph, on the other serving was great, my favorite part of the setup. So, I guess ELT reacts quite differently with different frames?

    For me kick serve was very good with either though, can really go after it without it sailing.
     
  49. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    i'm done with my ELT experiments for now.
    the biggest advantage was EASE ON ARM. that's a big +,
    also the weird extra spin and softness on some shots.

    but overall the preciseness and control on higher tension (48-50) is something i must have in my game. i also finally regained a lot more power to my shots. and the slice is a lot better now.
    the downside, again, is that the racquet feels like it's strung at 60 now LOL, like a metal board. i got softness spoiled a bit.
     
  50. GarryClarke

    GarryClarke Semi-Pro

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    ive just strung 1 of my 2012 pd,s with forten sweet @ 35lbs:shock:

    not playing till sunday morning so will post my thoughts then,
    after reading this thread on and off for weeks i thought why the hell not:)

    cheers Garry
     

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