Discussion in 'Strings' started by TW Staff, Mar 25, 2010.
I believe I am a 3.5. Actually, I believe (in my head) I am a 4.5, but my play is 3.5.
Thanks, ill give 30lb a go with some good syn gut in my #4 i.prestige mid and test it out!!
Pro's Pro Plus Power 1.23 @ 34lbs
OK, so I tried my third poly at ELT.
Previously, I played PPPP at low to mid 50's and found it to be a medium to high powered poly. The string bed felt fairly crisp. Control and spin were good, volleys and touch shots were not great but not bad relative to other polys I have played with.
At 34lb PPPP turned into a low powered string. The feel was very muted even dull. Control was still pretty good but spin did not seem as good as at the higher tensions. Surprisingly, I found my arm and wrist feeling a little stiff after 1 h of hitting or two hours of doubles. Volleys and touch shots were a little better in my opinion, but overall I didn't like the feel and comfort so I cut it out after 3h.
So far with full bed polys at ELT I am 1 out 3 as far as liking the way it plays.
Try dropping all the way down to 30 or even 28. I was not that impressed with the mid to high 30s, and the 40's are as we have mentioned here ... no-man's land for tensions. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you gp all the way down.
You recommend going all the way down to low 30's and avoid 40's as no man's land. Does that apply to any head size? I think I read that you use smaller head like 90? If one is using 100 to 105 head size, does one need to up the tension just a bit. Thanks in advance.
Possibly. I strung my girlfriend's Babolat Pure Drive Light (100) and she loves it. Also did my mixed doubles partner Babolat PD Plus (107) at 34 to start, she's now down to 30 as well.
Try a few extra pounds and see if you like it. I liked some things in the mid 30's even on my 100 in racquets. But it really clicked when I dropped all the way down to 30.
I think I'm a convert now. I've strung both of my 7Gs and my Silver Ace at 30, and it is awesome. I wouldn't say game changing, but the string bed feels great, and I still have good control. Interesting thing I noticed last night is that my spin serves were really kicking up high from time to time--like to head height. This never happened before. Ground strokes are about normal, though I may be getting some extra bounce on my backhand. Hard to tell. I just feel like I'm more in command of the ball, and the bed isn't near as stiff.
I also converted a friend who swears he can't tell a difference in strings or tension. Oddly, he gave me his second racquet to string after playing with the first Of interesting note, he is a hard, flat hitter with only natural spin (i.e. barely any), and he was hooking in shots all day with 30lbs. May be why he gave me the other racquet. I'm sticking with it for the time being. Good stuff.
My OGSM ELT isn't good anymore???
APD 2013 with OGSM 17guage at 33lbs.
so things were great when it was 50 degrees....
It got up to 85 degrees today and now my son is spray balls long.
He has only used these strings for about 12 hours. Do OGSM go dead?
I used Racket Tune and the tension is still at 31lbs.
What should I do? Restring at 33? or try 35 since its HOTTER now?
Remember, the APD is 100sq inches and that's why I went up 3lbs from 30lbs.
Played a match tonight, and I have to revise my earlier findings. My ground strokes are producing a fair bit more spin than normal. I was hitting a lot of deep forehands that were clearing the net by 5-7 feet. When they hit, they were bouncing above the guy if he let them go. Pretty cool, and it was a great strategy against him. He was very consistent and hit down the middle 95% of the time. The spin made him hit late or block to leave the ball short or off to one side. This allowed me to hit some sick angles, again using spin. I'm sold.
danotje, are you stringing BHBR @ 30 now? I haven't gone below 36 with full bed BHBR yet, but perhaps I should give it a shot @ 30 as well...
I am. It feels really nice at 30 with a smooth poly cross. I had some Silverstring lying around, so I have a 7G and my Silver Ace with BHBR x SS plus another 7G with BHBR x Isospeed. I really am surprised by how playable it is. I had one at 54 which is my normal tension just in case things didn't work out. I tried hitting with it after the grip on the 30lb racquet started coming off, and absolutely hated it. It felt like a board. Really interesting how quickly you acclimate to the lower tension.
By the way, the only reason I went with 30 is because my dropweight stringer creates physical obstacles in the 38-45 range. I did read the TW blog, though, that mentioned 30 as the sweet spot. Give it a try. You're nearly there now.
OK, thanks, guess I'll have to bite the bullet then... It is interesting how quickly you get used to these very low tensions! I used to play full poly in the high 50s, low 60s range...
Scratch that... I didn't believe my son... So I just took out his stick this AM with the ball machine and although it was only 69 degrees instead of 85, the strings Felt FINE... Felt GOOD...
My Next string job will be... OGSM 17 Main with Poly Cross at 33lbs.
Waiting for my Gut / Poly to break
I have used ELT here in Phoenix at 90+ degrees with no issues. I haven't seen any indications that it responds differently in warmer temps. Maybe he was just having on off day.
Where I am, the temperature is always in the 32+ degrees Celcius (90+ degrees Fahrenheit) all year round.
I've probably done close to twenty ELT stringjobs on my partner's and my rackets by now. So far, we did not have problems with the heat with gut, multi, syn gut or poly.
Because of excessive string movement, sometimes the huge gaps can cause the ball to spray more with ELT than at normal tensions. So remember to straighten out the strings
Great point U-S!
I'm going to string up mu POG Longbody 100 with Klip 17 Gut/Poly.
Would you suggest 30lbs for mains and crosses?
It looks like you are stringing at the same tension on mains and crosses now. If you like that setup, I would stay with it and string both at 30.
Sounds good - will do and report back - Cheers
Thanks, he had a much better day today. And plus, I tried it and it was still fine.
Does Gut ELT have the same string movement as SynGut ELT?
From my experiences with ELT fullbed nat gut and gut mains syn cross, there seems to be significantly less string movement whenever nat gut is used.
Thanks. Reading how it is the snap back of the mains that give you the extra spin, doesn't that tell us that FULL Syn Gut ELT is not creating as much spin since the mains MOVE and don't bounce back to original position?
Yes, I've read about spin being attributed to the mains snapback. I saw pics of pros' racket mains being pulled as much as one inch away by the ball at contact.
So far, my experiences with NG is still inconclusive. I got so much more spin with ELT syn gut (SG) that initially, I had problems getting the ball over the net. It just curled down on my side.
I already hit with a lot of topspin before ELT. So I had to modify, sort of flatten the follow through a little. That added a different dimension to my shots.
I suspect the mains could have been pulled much further than where it settled?
While Yourmailman got more spin with NG, I seem to get more with SG. Perhaps it's different rackets, or gauge or tension?
Having so much spinny fun now, especially when I play with strangers for the first time, I'm not in a hurry to dig out the differences yet
The pocketing with the low tension combined with the amount of spin you can generate creates a completely different sensation.
It's the difference between hitting the ball and being able to throw the ball around the court.
Out of the following sets to try ELT with, what do y'all think is best? I have sets if bhbr 17, sppp 1.18, cyclone 1.25, b5e 17 and solinco revolution...
Poly Cyclone 17 Main with OGSM 17 Cross
So I got bored and decided to cut the 33lb OGSM full bed on 0213 APD.... It had a lot more power than 33lb Cyclone Full bed on the 100sq APD...
I decided to try -->
Poly Cyclone 17 Main with OGSM 17 Cross at 30lbs on APD.
It felt good. I ball machined about 150 balls with it before giving it to my son. He loved it. It gave him a lot more spin then full Syn Gut but he lost a little power.
Still waiting to try real GUT in ELT. Have to wait for my other GUT racket to break....
If you're looking for spin, I haven't found anything better than BHBR. However, SPPP will likely hold its tension the best. I'm not impressed by Cyclone and haven't tried the other two. You could cross BHBR with SPPP. That is my next set up.
I string my racquets at 48 lbs and 46 lbs with Pro's Pro Black Force and I love it. I know it's not as low as some of you guys, but I am really happy with this setup at the moment.
Cool I'll give bhbr a go. 32/30 a good place to start?
Bhbr/sppp is intriguing because sppp is such a slick and thin cross...
I'm at 30, and it's pretty awesome. I was hesitant to try it, but after 2 weeks in my 7G, I can honestly say I don't intend to go back up. I use BHBR exclusively as my main (the spin is sick), but I still experiment with crosses from time to time. I had a package of WC Silverstring that was just hanging around, so I used that with BHBR at 30, and it is really nice. I like SPPP better (cheaper, too, but similar) so I bought a pack to try it. My standard set up is Isospeed Baseline Spin, though. Great feel, spin and makes string jobs about $3-$4. Hope this helps!
OK, I'm back from my spur of the moment trip to Craplahoma.
While I was there, I had one of Bio 100's strung up with Babolat natural gut at, you guessed it, 30.
I now see why some people are saying they get more spin with syn gut when using ELT. My full syn gut setup actually generates more spin than the Babolat, but not as much as with the Klip I had in it originally. Overall, it is a wonderful feeling string, but I miss the spin! I did notice that quite a few of my backhand slices were just clearing the net and then dipping, but with the Klip strings, it was more pronounced.
When I got back yesterday, my India gut had arrived. I am anxious to try it out. I think one set in a Bio 100 and the other in as PS 6.0 85. On examination, it seems more like the Klip, so I am hoping that I will get some of the added spin back. I'll report back on the results.
Just thought I'd add a little more to this thread...
In regards to spin, I'm not really sure if ELT gives more or not, but I do have a couple of observations that occurred after stringing at 30. First, I have noticed a slightly higher trajectory over the net. I've read that studies show only a 1 or 2% increase, but this is translating into 1-2 feet higher on average. To go along with this, I've mysteriously developed a very high trajectory (maybe 8-10 ft over the net) ball since going to ELT. The interesting thing is it usually only happens when I'm pressed a bit. It lands about 3 ft from the baseline and then shoots up over my opponent's head. Really useful in forcing errors or neutralizing attacks.
The next thing I noticed is that I now have a solid drop shot. I hate drop shots because they are so darn effective, and I couldn't pull it off very well. Now I seem to throw in several every couple of games. I figured that I might see more topspin, but this intrigues me because not only is it backspin, but also requires a light touch. Based on the traditional thought of the tramopline effect, I thought that type of shot might be impossible, yet here they are, showing up in my game.
Again, I'm not sure what the science behind tension says, but these two shots have crept into my game over the last few weeks. Maybe I'm stroking better, maybe switching to leather is helping--I really don't know. Bottom line, though, I'm doing things that I wasn't before, and it's fun--especially watching guys try to catch the high looper on the backhand side.
I am interested to read this as I am contemplating trying the Indian gut if it any good, on my PS 88 that is just lying around gathering dust
Yesterday I strung up a Fischer vacuum SC mid (predecessor to the vacuum 90 pro) with Prince Tournament Nylon @ 32/30. Some guy next to me broke his strings so I lend him my racket. He seemed to be playing great but the mass was too much for him.
Afterwards I asked him: would you believe me if I told you this was strung at 30 lbs? He just looked at me in shock. He could not believe it. He went over to his friend and asked: Guess what this is tensioned at? The guy replied no idea but we usually string at 55lbs. Well guess what, it's strung at 30! Both guys are players who've been playing for years. The looked like they've never heard such a thing in all their years of playing tennis.
The guys just could not believe it felt so nice! He asked what makes it great. My guess was the ball sinks more into the stringbed impacting more spin.
I really liked it, but my technique isn't solid enough the constantly play with a narrow mid. When I hit off center my elbow gets a beating. I'm really contemplating stringing up my regular racket with a premium multi @ ELT. I don't have the same string so I could't compare.
Before you pull the trigger on the ELT multi, I just wanted to share somehow I did not enjoy ELT multi. The main drawback to me is that multi turns very gummy after just one session of play. That seems to hinder the free sliding of strings which generates spin.
I've tried (in different rackets though):
Take a look at my findings on my blog and if you have any questions, feel free to ask
Wow thanks! I've read that review but didn't see the update. Seems like my reel of tournament nylon will be getting some more playing time in the future.
For those who are coming to this thread late, this is one summary that might
save you some time reading thru the whole thread.
Also it gives me insight on why polys are so popular in this era of baselining
on slow court surfaces with heavy balls...
Syngut at 30 lbs in Dunlop Revelation Pro 90
OK, so all the positive reviews on syngut at ELT finally peaked my curiosity.
I decided to string up my old Dunlop Revelation Pro with a couple of half sets of Golden Set syngut that I had laying around. I put some Durameld 17 in the mains and some Optimum 17 in the crosses, both at 30 lbs. I sprayed some ARMOR ALL on the string bed after stringing.
Unorthodox Stringing and Yourmailman -- you guys are bang on about the playing characteristics of syngut at ELT!!
I could not believe how well this setup played! Access to lots of spin, great control, low to medium power, and a nice soft feel with a bit of bite -- all this from some cheap no name syngut.
My only caveat is that I only hit for 1 hour today, so will reserve final judgement as to whether this setup is going to be my new standard.
I noticed that the strings did not move that much. There was some notching so it will be interesting to see how long they last as well as how their playability holds up.
Ground strokes, volleys and touch shots were really nice with this setup. I will see how the serve performs under game conditions. I am thinking this should be a great setup for doubles.
I am now chomping at the bit to try some syngut at ELT in my 200 and 200 tours.
Really glad to hear you finally pulled the trigger on 30lbs!
ELT is so addictive that more and more around me are getting hooked and converted.
As with all freshly strung rackets, I noticed ELT has a "break-in" period too. But it's very subtle. The best playing hours seem to start from the second hour or second session of tennis.
So if you're already having fun in the 1st hour, get ready to rock and roll from the 2nd onwards!
But isn't it a little too cold to be playing where you are now? Indoor courts?
Just a question or two for you guys. I'm on my first 30lb string job still, and it is full poly. I love the way it plays. I get tons of feel and spin, and it still feels pretty great after quite a few hours of play time (15+?). First, do you guys see heavy notching in your set ups, especially compared to higher tension? I would expect that due to easier string movement, but I didn't expect it to not really affect the playability. Second, been reading a lot about syn gut being even better than poly at ELT, would you agree? If so, what makes it better in your opinion. This seems somewhat counter intuitive, but I'm coming up on a restring soon and have lots of syn gut available. Thanks for the insights so far. This thread has transformed my game!
I'm assuming you're using Isospeed Baseline poly. If it is, I'm not surprised about the notching as it is a very soft poly.
Another reason could be that you are actually hitting much harder at ELT due to the low power. You may not be feeling it due to the extra comfort and plushness though. That is just my experience with ELT poly.
I prefer syn gut as it offers greater comfort, pocketing and better feel. Poly still has a certain harshness to it at low tensions that I did not like. Power wise, I think SG is much better than ELT poly. Somehow, I am also able to generate more spin with SG than poly.
Yep -- indoors -- winter is still hanging on up here -- probably another few weeks (maybe a month) before I will be outdoors.
From my limited experience I also liked the comfort and feel of ELT syngut better than the polys I tried. I still can't believe how well the syngut played at 30 lbs.
Which synguts are best at ELT? Gosen OGSM?
Oddly, it is the BHBR that is notching. I think it is because the mains are freer to move now. I might be hitting harder, too, as the ball's flight path just arches down so quickly. Keeps it in, but I have noticed more short balls. Not all the time nor are they that troubling (they land just inside the service line and peak near the baseline), but they are there. Just wondering about other's experiences. I may have to try syn gut at some point, but I kind of like that extra crispness of the poly.
I've had great results with Gosen OGSM. I'm partial to the 18. Seems to get a little more bite than the 17.
Thanks yourmailman! I'll get a few sets to try out
How about a ELT hybrid? I am just beginning to enjoy a stiff poly / syn gut at 35/33 lbs done in a 95 sq in 16x19 RD7.
Take a look at my 24apr update in the post below...
This is an interesting idea as I haven't tried a syn gut hybrid in a while, and definitely not at ELT. One of the main reasons is the spin of a full poly set up. Do you think it compares? I play with a lot of top, not spin doctor levels, but there is more than the average bear has. Mostly I like having the access to it, and ELT and sound technique have given me that in spades. I like being able to hit a low flat(ter) ball while also being able to hit a high trajectory ball capable of bouncing 6+ ft. You have me mildly curious about the hybrid and syn gut now
From my experience...
Poly gives me the most spin. I can SWING away as hard as I can...
Syngut gives more power then POLY. I do feel it has slightly less spin potential.
Syngut Main / Poly Cross gives me less power but more spin.
. . . at the same tensions as those other setups, yes. With synguy-poly, you need to string looser. Much looser. Probably at poly tensions.
Right now I have Gosen 17 x Co-Focus 18 @ 44x40. I usually play gut-poly at 48x44.
I don't know if they're 100% comparable in terms of performance at those tensions, but it's reasonably close.
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