Discussion in 'Strings' started by TW Staff, Mar 25, 2010.
how does ELT fare for volleys against hard hit passing shots?
Actually very good. All you have to do is stick the racquet out and you can get a deep return with no effort at all. Also seems easier for me to turn that shot into a nice drop shot.
Feelin' pretty good this afternoon ...
Played in a local tournament this weekend benefiting cancer research and MDA.
Paying in the Men's Singles 3.5. Lost in the semifinal to my nemesis from my club 6-2,6-2. Which put me into the consolation bracket. I won the semifinal there over a 36 year old 2-6,6-1, retired. The moved on to the consolation final.
My opponent was a 19 year old kid who has a pretty good game. I have to say in all honesty that ELT saved me.
We would have rallies that started out with baseline to baseline and he was whacking the ball pretty good. As soon as I pushed him behind the baseline, I would pop a nice little back-spin drop-shot. Most of the times he came to net, I was able to nail him on a fierce backhand cross-court passing shot.
My serving was phenomenal with ELT in the 95 degree plus heat. I only had two double faults and was mixing it up pretty good ... kicker on the first, slice on the second, and when I got up, I would blast a nice hard flat body serve at him.
Final score 7-5, 7-6(9-7) in just over 2 1/2 hours. I played all my matches with my Bio 100 full bed natural gut. The excessive spin is starting to return as it gets broken in.
Happy, happy, joy, joy! My first tournament victories that didn't come from a walkover! Woo-hoo!
Yes I agree! I have no clue what my NTRP rating is but I think ELT has bumped me up a notch!
I now enjoy being called crazy whenever I try to share the magic of ELT with friends. And then later see their twisted and shocked face at how I can curl tennis balls in the air with so much ease... It's like throwing a frisbee!
Still waiting your report on the India gut! Or that the one?
No, this is the Babolat gut that I had done when I was in Oklahoma. I still haven't had a chance to string up the India gut. Had a bunch of stuff going on this past week. Tuesday looks like the day for doing that.
I am doing 30lbs on both mains and crosses for synguy-poly. It feels great.
What's your ' bat" ( racquet) of choice ? (just curious):|
My main weapon is the European version of the Dunlop Biomimetic 100 (90 in). I am liking the reissue Wilson PS 6.0 85's I got. They are just wonderful, plus I don't have to lead them up as they are plenty heavy already.
Played some minutes with ELT. I really like that I can wack the ball and it will stay in. The ball seems heavier.
I'm still not sure if I should switch. Will keep trying with it. Maybe I should start of with the elt frames instead of switching later.
I ELT'ed the India Gut (17g) with OGSM cross (17g) on an Storm Tour at 30lbs.
I am not liking it too much.... I think its due to the india gut...
Its not as soft as I thought.
I'll be doing one with full India gut this afternoon.
Can you share how were the strings done? Like stringing machine, prestretch, single or double pull, etc?
No prestretch at all. Single Pull. Its an electron Eagnas and it does not have constant pull. I did it VERY slow. just to make sure I did not notch the mains.
I have strung Pacific Classic before and did not prestretch either.
If you take a look at the india gut closely, its nothing like Pacific Classic. It really looked like someone wounded / twisted it and not uniform like Pacific.
maybe I got a bad batch. 17 gauge did not feel like 17 at all. more like 16...
Anyways, it still "works" in ELT for me. No wierd PINGING or vibrations either.
I have 2 Storm Tour Babolats and the other is with Syngut main.... both strung at 30lbs. The syngut felt better for me.
Right now, my preference is Poly main and Syngut Cross. the stings SNAP back into place on every hit. Crazy spin and good power.
Hey.. it cost me like 4 or 5 bucks to ship to your country... If u want, I can send u a set of this INida gut for $15 shipped if u like...
Thanks for the detailed update!
I've tried ELT with natural gut twice in two different rackets. Like you, I still prefer the feel of syn gut as well.
I still have a few packs of natural gut so I'll pass the offer this time? Thanks!
I just tried some ELT. I thought it was some April fools joke and that I missed the confession somewhere in the 90+ pages.
But recently I caught some tennis elbow, which I think has everything to do with playing too much and especially with kevlar strung at the max tension of 63lbs. I was using gut crosses but still the string bed was like a board and while I was hitting great with plenty of control over a few weeks it started to get to me. I dont think it has to do with strokes, at least one teaching pro hit with me and had nothing to say about my mechanics except that they were pretty good.
Anyhow I thought I would give elt a try.
So I strung up the Prince Original graphite using Ashway Kevlar and Prince synthetic gut at 28/30lbs.
Probably not what one would pick for ELT, but I wanted to do a fair comparison based on tension. I know it isnt precise because of the synthetic crosses but hey, I thought it was a joke anyhow and gut is pricey.
So all I can say is that going down 35lbs in the mains I would have thought the racket would be unplayable. It wasnt. It felt great and while I didnt hit out too much or try heavy top when I did, I still had control and could keep the ball in the court.
Because of the tennis elbow I hit mostly slice but man it was wicked. I was amazed at some of the shots. I crushed a slice forehand- it just jumped off the racket like a rocket.
It really took me back. When I first started playing all I had was a great CC slice forehand, CC backhand and great volleys, and a serve. But through the years I worked on topspin groundstrokes, power and not just cc winners, losing the greatness in all the shots that came naturally. With ELT it certainly came back but I still kept my topspin strokes too.
It was a short time due to the TE so I would need more time to know if it will be a permanent switch, also the guy I hit with didnt hit a lot of top or pace so I would like to see how ELT copes with heavy spin and especially pace (chime in if you know)
Anyhow if someone like me who needs stiff rackets and 2x4 string beds to hit with control can adjust to elt I dont see why everyone shouldnt try it.
Your experience mirrors mine (and others too) in that it just didn't seem right. Yet, in search of a better feeling string bed, here we are. I have full poly at 30, regularly hit with hard hitters and can tell you that it handles pace and spin fine. In fact, even though we hit often, they always remark on the ridiculous spin and how they can't let a high ball go due to it dipping in at the last minute.
I think you'll find that you'll want to stick with it. I used to string at 54, and when I went back briefly, it was incredibly stiff feeling and low powered. I also didn't see the pronounced spin (which I think is more due to the higher launch angle and being able to see the effect of the spin easier).
Btw...anyone else notice this thread has nearly 1/4 million views? Crazy.
You gotta love it!
I dropped down to 32 main, 30 cross for my BLX Pro Open with Cyclone 18. Will be testing in a few minutes so let see!
Been going lower and lower in recent times and just tried the Federer BLX for a few days. Strung it in the mid 40's with Pro Line 1.15mm and it felt too stiff even though this is the lowest I've ever strung a racquet.
Maybe the racquet is too stiff or the string pattern too dense compared to what I'm used to?
As stated here before, the 40's are no-man's land for tension. Try dipping down into the low 30's. I think your experience will be quite different.
i am in 40s and am happy
I am 52 and reasonably happy.
But I accept that you are experiencing greater effects in the mid 30s.
I used to string my daughter's racquet at 60 because she had the power but not the control. Her racquet felt like a board. Now I string at 38lbs and I check the tension regularly after training each day. After a break in period her racquet feels best to her when it hits the 32-33lb range. The top spin she is able to get and the heavy ball that lands deep and jumps off the court is something she never got at 60lbs. She uses Volkl Cyclone 17g in the Head Radical MP. I am sold on the extreme low tensions and so are my kids.
PSGD 18 @ 30lbs in Dunlop 200 (18x20)
Tried a new ELT setup – PSGD 18 at 30 lbs in my Dunlop 4D Aerogel 200. After being pleasantly surprised at how well some Golden Set 17G syngut played in my old Revelation Pro 90 at 30 lbs I finally got around to stringing up my 18x20 with some PSGD 18. I was looking forward to trying the 18 gauge in the dense 18x20 pattern of the 200.
I hit with the racquet for a couple of hours (indoors) and played a couple of sets of doubles (outdoors for the first time this year!). I have to report that I am still really liking syngut at 30lbs
First off I have to admit that I still have a hard time believing that syngut at ELT can play so well –
so far I am 2 for 2 in liking the syngut setups that I tried and 1 for 3 in liking the fullbed poly setups that I tried. Here are my general impressions after about 3.5 h hitting:
Grounds strokes were solid and controlled with reasonable spin – really liked slicing low balls on my backhand side.
Serves had nice pop and control
Volleys in particular were where this setup really shone – great feel and again excellent control.
Return of serve was solid.
Feel was quite comfortable but it did lack the crispness and bite of many polys – it was soft but not mushy. I didn't mind it because the pocketing of the ball was so nice. So far no arm problems.
For doubles or S&V this is a very nice playing setup.
Although I sprayed on some Armor All after stringing to reduce friction the strings are notched, so it will be interesting to see how long they last. There is some string movement but not really alot yet – I also found this surprising.
How old is she? You should try 30lbs once.
So Volkl Cyclone 18g works pretty good at 32lbs main / 30lbs cross on my BLX Pro Open. Good direction control and good amounts of spin. Played a set yesterday alternating between that and my ADP with Yonex PolyTour Pro 125 @ 48lbs. My buddy said that the BLX stick had WAY more spin and had a hard time with it because the ball would have more spin that with the ADP using the same swing.
Next up I'm going to try to string up the ADP with Yonex PolyTour Spin @ 32/30. Probably will do it next week.
She's 16 and I might just try stringing at 30 to see what happens. I string my son's racquet at 35 and he has played with it until the strings popped. The last tension measured before the strings broke was 28.
Thanks. Good to know.
I am keeping my son at 30lbs because any swing less than a full swing sends the ball flying. Meaning, he can't swing half way and stop or even try to SLOW down.
I posted elsewhere but I strung up my Yamaha Secret 04 (stiffness 80) with Spiky Shark at 35.
It was previously unplayable with syngut at 50something (rocket launcher supreme).
With ELT? Unbelievable! It's a supreme doubles racquet with my league members shocked at some of the shots I was getting in - no joke.
The ELT experiment continues with a Steam 99s on the way - strung at 45 - which is ELT with the 16 x 15 pattern.
Interested to see how this turns out.
I have my match tomorrow night - will report back right after Souledge. Hoping the Steam 99S hype is real and I can get some kick (donkey) spin
I put a set of Prince Syth 17 in my APDGT at 35lbs yesterday. I could only hit for a few minutes with it last night.
My initial impressions were that it felt very soft, and helped soften the harshness of the APDGT, but that it didn't hit a whole lot different from the 56lbs I've been playing. For me that was fine. I love the way I hit with this racket, and if 35lbs doesn't mess that up I think that's great. If all I get is more comfort and a safer for my arm hit, that's fine with me.
I'll play a couple of sets of doubles tonight and come back with a more complete report.
I am curious in results. My experience is syn gut at low tensions is a rocket launcher. My opinion is that yes, it would feel softer, but increased dwell time, string movement, and string recoil would change the launch angle off the string bed and speed of the ball. Poly at 35 lbs, I can see. Jack Sock strings in the high 30s and Flippi Volandri strings in the high 20s with all poly and they are pros with high swing speeds. But, gut, multi or syn gut in this range seems like too much power and too much stringbed inconsistency.
Well there are a couple hundred posts here saying something else. Perhaps you should try yourself. As I see it, the new discovery, if you can call it that, is that below a certain point, you get less power by lowering tension. Which is logical to me because the ball is more disconnected to the frame than with a firmer stringbed. However you do not get less spin, so you have a new set of playing characteristics to play with.
Well, I didn't have a whole lot of time with it yesterday, but the guy I was hitting with was hitting a solid heavy ball at me and I didn't feel like I had to pull up at all. I took full cuts at the ball and it was fine. Definitely not a rocket launcher at any rate.
Got to hit with the India gut last night in my mixed doubles match.
Overall, it was a very pleasant experience, just like with the other nat gut setups I have used at ELT. Power, spin and control were all there in abundance. The big question to me now is the longevity of the string. Will it last like the Klip and the Babolat?
I do have to say that the Klip seems to be the best performing with ELT. Also it seems to impart more spin than the other two. The Babolat is getting better as it ages, but still ranks third in my book. Not much difference between it and the syn gut. So why pay an exorbitant amount for strings that don't have any advantage?
The match was very interesting. The guy was a power hitter and his partner had no pace on her shots 95% of the time, but was pretty accurate with them. In the past, I have had a little trouble playing a team like that. It's hard to get into a rhythm. But with ELT, it seemed pretty easy to adjust between the balls with pace and the ones without.
After dropping the first game (on my serve), we settled in and reeled of four straight. We wound up winning the first set 6-3. The second was tighter and went back and forth. We ended up winning 7-5. It took just under two hours, and the India gut seemed to hold up pretty well.
I'll use it again tonight in my singles match and report back on the results.
awesome....let us know how it plays after a while
Yes, there is a very slight increase in rebound or launch angle. But the extra spin more than took care of it.
I was skeptical at first too but I decided to "jump in with reckless abandon" and strung at 30lbs with syn gut. It was love at first hit even though I used to string at 65-68 lbs regularly in my 95 sq in.
So far, I've tried 27,28,29,30,32,33,35 and 36 lbs with soft and stiff poly, natural gut, multifilament, syn gut, kevlar and some hybrids. Most played very well at ELT. For some personal rackets, I even added in partial proportional stringing on the crosses!!!
Many different rackets were used, including head light, balanced, head heavy, low and high swingweight, stiff and flexy, open and dense patterns, polarised and de-polarised, etc. Again, all were good.
I also tested against a wide group of players, including powerful flat hitters, heavy top spinners, slicers, volleyers, blockers, male and female, beginners and even kids!!! All gave ELT high distinctions so far. Only the 100% flat hitters were a little apprehensive although they loved volleys with it.
My only regret is sharing ELT too freely with some opponents. Because of that, I'm now at the receiving end of some very ~!@#$%^&* crazy spin serves and baseline shots...
Thanks the India gut feedback!
Awaiting your "steaming" report!!!
I finally string up 3 rackets in ELT and played them over 2 weeks.
7g – Poly at 30 lbs
5x – Klip legend gut at 32 lbs
5pse – Syn gut at 32 lbs
My top preference is poly at 30 lbs. It is still the most predictable and forgiving among the 3. To quote a previous comment, I can slingshot the ball to any part of the court. I can do long rallies with this in singles. Most importantly, the strings are still straight.
In the middle of the pack is the Klip at 32 lbs. I love it for my doubles match. This setup excels in serve and volley. During singles rally, I very often launch rockets after 3-4 exchanges and have to apologize to my partner. Some string movements but still reasonably straight.
The syn gut setup is surprising low in power. I can swing hard and still get the ball only to mid-court. But this setup is unpredictable as the strings moves and affect shot direction/execution. I need to constantly move the strings back straight. The feel comparing to the other 2, the syn gut is very muted and least lively.
So results vary, but ELT rocks.
I have found ELT to be anything but a rocket launcher. In fact, I have less balls flying long now than at much higher tensions (up to 70 not too long ago). The added topspin brings the ball down inside the baseline consistently, and the backspin on drop shots makes them almost irretrievable.
I fond that at 36, I had a tendency to over-hit and try to do too much. Or that was what the results felt like. Once I got down to 32 and 30, that kind of error went away.
As for inconsistency of the string bed, I think that just the opposite is true. I can hit off-center and still produce a nice shot. In fact, I hit one shot tonight in my singles match that was almost at the very bottom of the string-bed. But, because of ELT, it cleared the net and I won the point. If I had hit in that spot at a higher tension, I'm quite sure it would have been about half way down the net.
As I worked my way down, I found that the high 30s were where I started to see glimmers of what ELT could do. It wasn't until I got down to and below 32 that I really started to see noticeable differences in my shot making. I didn't like poly in the high 30s AT ALL.
My suggestion is the same as U-S ... "jump in with reckless abandon"! Don't be half-hearted and go to 35 or 36. Go all the way down to 30 and see if your opinion doesn't change. There have been a few people that likes the mid to high 30s and even a couple that like the 40s, but the benefits of true ELT come well below that (around 30, or even below). In fact, I am thinking my next experiment will be in the 20s.
Well.... although I did not have a very good impression at about 27lbs, but I'd say "Go for it!!!"
What I experienced at about 27 lbs was:
- Very long dwell time and my follow-through becomes very important for directional control. If I was lazy or pulled left or right, that's exactly where the ball went.
- Very low power as the harder I hit, the deeper the pocketing. The strings simply absorbed my power. Then the follow-through " directional problem" becomes exacerbated. I had to back-off and swing easy.
- Spin became uncontrollably huge. Many shots curled down my side of the net!
- Spin serves and volleys continue to shine. I was able to get my serves to kick-off the receiving party's racket at very weird angles. I ditched my flat serve and used spin serves instead.
- String movements left huge gaps which must be straightened. Else the odd rebound angle happens sometimes.
If you use natural gut at 20 lbs, you may be able to avert these "problems" since gut rebounds so much faster and powerfully.
Thanx for the info U-S.
I have also basically ditched my flat serve and am using a kick serve more and more. I can't believe how many returns go way wide or long. An additional benefit is that my first serve percentage has gone WAY up.
Yes, I was planning on using nat gut for the 20# experiment. I was thinking along the same lines regarding power. I am concerned that the string movement will increase, but nothing ventured ... nothing gained.
I couple of shots were "steaming" if you get my drift. I gave up a little too early as I had my hitting partner criticizing me for hitting out too much, however for the Steam S you need full stokes!
However, I had some interesting hits. One shot cleared the net by about 3 feet and then hooked down to land nicely in the court. I've never seen a ball fly like that. I also hit a forehand slice that was unbelievably spinny.
So 45 lbs works really well but you need full strokes and you'll be golden. I'm playing the Steam S on the weekend and also will stick with it for my next match.
And will not listen to my annoying hitting partner who I plan to challenge in singles and blast him off the court - which I typically do with a 80% win record
Just reading about it makes me feel like buying a 99s for a spin around!
I have some playing partners that are absolutely pushing the spin to extremes. Your racket sounds like a good weapon to execute it. I'm not sure if I can describe it well in words here, but let me try...
We are all right-handers. From just outside the baseline, we have been attempting to return a shot hit deep to our backhand side. The objective is to hit cross court back to the opponent's backhand.
We use a backhand slice with heavy side-spin, pulling the racket left to right parallel to the baseline. We deliberately aim outside of the singles side line and try to curl the ball back in. Two among our group could execute it quite consistently.
The amazing thing is, this is almost a gimme shot! It puts the receiver's guard off since it looks way out and they usually don't even bother to take that shot, until it's too late.
By the time it curls in, if they try to hit a backhand, the ball would have become a body shot.
Evil isn't it? :twisted:
We named this the "banana kick". :razz:
So played a little longer with it last night. Just a drop in doubles night, so my partner and I played two different teams. Like the other day, I loved it when warming up. Everything went just where I wanted it to go. I felt like I had great control of groundies, volleys, and serves, and the soft string bed was really nice. The strings do move around a lot, but I'm ok with that. It gives me something to do between points.
First set went ok, but not great. I needed a little more adjustment when playing for real than I thought I would. But you really need to take a full, long cut at the ball *every time.* You can’t block anything back, even a flat, bomb serve hit right at you. The loose strings just absorb the ball’s momentum and it’ll barely get back to the net. Trying to roll the ball in was also tough because of the low, low power. And I needed to hit slices with a fair amount more force than I usually do as well or they’d just die too.
Low volleys, on the other hand, kept popping the ball up to my opponents for easy put aways no matter what I did.
But I did return pretty well and serves felt really good, though my opponents didn’t seem to be having a lot of trouble with them.
The second set went much better. I made some adjustments to my strokes and hit some nice slice approaches, and some very solid volleys to go with the strokes that were already working pretty well with the ELT. But the team we played in the second set were not as big hitters as the team we played first, so it’s hard to say.
Overall I’m still on the fence with ELT. I already hit with a fair amount of topspin, so I haven’t noticed any big jump in spin for me. And while the directional control isn’t bad, it’s not quite up to where it was with a multi @ 56 lbs for me. So the only real benefit for me at this point is the comfort.
I’ll play longer with it again tomorrow and I’ll see how it goes. Then I have some polys coming in the mail from TW this week. I’ve never really liked poly. I just don’t feel like it gives me enough feel around the net. But I want to try some @ 30lbs to see how it is.
So not sold yet, but not ready to give up yet either.
30 would play very different from 35 lbs.
Also, soft poly does not seem to go well with ELT. Stiff poly is better. Just a heads up...
Keep trying and keep posting will ya?
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