Discussion in 'Strings' started by TW Staff, Mar 25, 2010.
Is it me, or is this post making any sense?
I think they're trying to say that low tensions will only work with a stiff frame when returning fast balls.
It got so heavy because the coats of white and then green added way more than i thought. The black was 2-4 grams but this was more like 20+. brass ring was needed to make it playable. The 15 oz gold version was better
Ah the good days.
That's a fat, round grip too! What's going on there?
Yep. I think it may have been fairly round. Now adays I have more square grips, that measure the same at 5 1/4" I start with a stock 3/8, wrap a Wilson Shock shield replacement grip over that, cut another Shock Shield grip into 4 strips and place them on bevels 2,4,6,8. Then I wrap with 2 gamma supreme OGs. It ends up roughly at 5 1/4 and bevels 2,4,6,8 are much smaller giving a squarish handle. I would try a different shape handle to see, though fwiw I can play with any shape and there were some with little bevels at all like the one on the prince in the pict.
The square nature though and the size mean I don't have to squeeze hard at all and can hit really loose, and no blisters at all, and no callouses either, because I dont get any blisters.
And since most pros use 4 1/2- 4 5/8" overall mine is not that much bigger.
Awesome! I'm def gonna give this a shot
Seems that the hype is gone. Six years now and no more reports in the blog.
That you, Shaq? Are you a giant or just prefer heavy racquets with huge grips
Shaq would eat me for breakfast
5'10 210 with hands that measure for a 4 1/2
I had te back then and the heavy sticks really helped
It was always just an experiment. Chris, et al, must play test dozens of rackets a year, and have no choice but use the strings and string tensions people more commonly use for their feedback to be relevant.
I would expect an elt to work better, as in much more of a difference on feel and less noodling, with a stiffer racket. But I think it largely depends on the strings, specific racket and the player. I found an ELT with a stiff poly is great in a pog, but not so good in a PD. But perhaps the newer PDs take to it better. Mine is an older one.
I suppose the hype has died down about ELT, but like anything new and controversial, there is a lot of initial excitement about the possibilities. With tennis, everyone would like to have a quick edge to improve their game. Many give it a trial yet revert back, some are opposed and will never try it, and some will convert or keep it as an option. I've tried it in numerous racquets and have reverted back a couple of times only to find something missing. Like O ports, polys and extreme open patterns, ELT isn't for everyone, but it has created another interesting offshoot in this sport we love, and while it may never take off like polys, it has changed conventional thinking to a degree.
As for what racquets it works best in, I'm not sure how much flex has to do with it. It has made every racquet I've tried it in feel better to me, but the racquet specs weren't for me. I've hit ELT in a 7g, Silver Ace 110, POG 100, and APD, and all of them felt better for it. The obvious problem is those specs are all over the board which kept me from digging in with it.
I've currently found a tremendous setup for me with BHBR x Blackzone @ 30 lbs in a POG 100. It suits my style and preferences perfectly, so I think I'm holding for a while. The POG is fairly flexible, but it is heavier (like most of the racquets I tried) which I think might be a bit more important. Not sure how a 10oz racquet would react. Just a thought, but I'm really not sure. All I know is my current setup rocks.
Anyway, just wanted to add something to the discussion.
weight should help.... there has to be something as a foundation for the strings to complete now a longer stretch/shorten cycle... all my rackets are 12oz minimum, so maybe I took the weight for granted... but I can imagine mass on a more flexible frame will help.. a player's swing will be a factor too.... does the swing release at the same time as the strings? then you get good power. on the other hand, if one has a quick snappy swing forward while the strings are still moving backwards (relative to the frame), then you get very poor power.
only experiments can find the what suits a particular player, like many things other than the ELT
in a way, ELT or not is similar to what shaft a golfer chooses... the shaft release timing needs to match the player's swing speed... take 2 extremes... if you ask a pro man to use a senior shaft, the swing will complete way before the shaft has a chance to kick (release), if you ask a 80 yo golfer to use a extra extra stiff, then the kick will be way before the swing gets to the ball.... either one does not work.
I strung my Prestige MP at 35 with a poly/syn hybrid. It was great for an hour or two, but then the strings started to fray, and became completely dead to the point that I couldn't hit with it anymore.
I then strung the same racquet at 35/38 with all poly, and it played even better and it lasted a lot longer. I used to string my racquets at 52, and it was not a difficult transition to drop down to 35. It immediately gave me more power and spin without having to swing very hard. There isn't too much loss of control either.
This has been my experience, too. The transition was very easy, and the results have all been positive.
Did anyone try ELT with Wilson Revolve strings?
I'm really curious to give it a try. Revolve is my favorite poly and wanted to have feedback before I possibly waste a perfect set of Revolve at 30lbs...
I think ELT is no different than non ELT tension when it comes to personal preference. I find I like my ELT with mains at 38-40 and the crosses in the 35/36# range. I can really swing out, and as long as I put good topspin on the ball, they stay in. Yet the feel is still crisp with a full swing. Control is phenomenal.
That sounds a lot like my experience. Durability is pretty surprising.
I think if you want a hybrid to work, you have to bump up the syngut's tension quite a bit. My brother has had good results with something like 45 lbs for the poly and 55 for the syngut, but you still have to match the poly and the syngut a bit. I tried similar tensions with different strings, and the results were pretty poor.
Just tried yonex tour spin 17 in an extreme at 40x36 and it lost so much tension so fast, it was nearly unplayable after one match. It now has less power than any racket I have tried in decades. But control is excellent... Er..
40x36 with cyber flash silver is excellent in my 27.25" babolat pure control tour. It was too mushy for me at 30. I think you give up no extra spin, but gain more power and feel at 40#.
Last sunday I strung my racquet with Volkl Cyclone 18 at 37/41 lbs, and checked it with RacquetTune, which gave me a value of 35.4 or something. That seems kinda reasonable to me.
After 48 hours, it had dropped to something like 32.8lbs (it seems I forgot to check after 24 hours), and then it was down to 32.0lbs after 36 hours.
Anywho, after playing 2 hours in doubles, the tension was at 30.0 lbs, which seems like pretty good tension maintenance to me. TW University has 30% to 56% tension loss for Volkl Cyclone 18, whereas I'm currently at 15%. I'll have to see if it keeps dropping, but I get the feeling it won't go down that much anymore. If I play this weekend I'll post the post-match tension.
Performance-wise, it almost seemed like I could do no wrong, as long as I didn't frame the ball. Sweetspot seemed as big as the racquet, and worked great for groundies and punched volleys. The one area I couldn't figure out was drop volleys, they all floated on me. I seemed like with slow swings the poly is more powerful than for fast swings.
kind of. It was ripspin then and I used it with kevlar mains. I recall it being one of the better combos for me but ultimately like mosquitobite better.
You've used it for a week, give yourself time to figure out drop volleys, topspin lobs, half volleys, and wide get's.
I find STBite16 doesn't drop nearly as much as I'd hoped, usually stringing at 35 lbs., but even after a year and 50+ hours, staying well above 32 lbs.
Finally tried 30lbs in the O3 Tour. While I've never been able to play a real match with it at any tension, ELT does work well with it. Super soft all the way around. The launch angle was already high due to the ports, and I didn't notice much of a difference there. It is tremendously fun to play with, though, because you really have to keep your foot on the gas. I have a long, fast stroke, and it marries up nicely. Topspin gets even a little more exaggerated with it compared to the graphite. It demands near perfection to be dangerous which makes it difficult to play a full match with. My PCG is much more controlled and doesn't blast you for lazy play.
Still going strong with BHBR crossed with Blackzone @ 30/28. Great control with wicked spin. Serves are really nice--flat, slice and kicks. Forehands have my friends swinging at shoulder height and above when I want it. Now to find some extra grommets and bumpers...
i use ELT if my elbow is hurting, usually after a used racket change from 3B@y. my usual tension is 54-57#. i recently got the 2014 Graphene Radical, but played around too much with weight(leather, lead, blu tac, tension), and oh did my inside elbow feel it! I have my own stringer, so i dropped the PP Blackout tension to 45# played for a week. Then tried PP Spinox @42 for 3-4 days. Then now have Blackout @38. Elbow is happy. After about a month or so, i will go back to 45# and 52-54#.
I play mostly doubles, so a high launch angle and clearance above the net is detrimental, but it does fool players thinking that my ball would go out, then dips at the last second.
ELT is what everyone says it is, tremendous spin, power, control(by spin), clearance, feel, and comfort. Transition back and forth only takes like a week. It really depends on what you want out of your game.
If you're thinking about it, don't think too much, just do it. but give it at least two weeks. adds interest to the game. and it's fun! if you don't like, then go back.
Is there a difference between a string getting to 40 lbs, for example, by being strung at that tension vs. being strung at a higher tension and subsequently losing tension? I want to give this a shot, but I usually string poly around 52 lbs, and it tends to play best when freshly strung. So by the time the tension gets to 40 lbs or so I am probably not enjoying the playability very much.
I'd say it is not comparable. When a string is new it has elasticity and coatings that allow the string to glide and return, it will perform the best it ever will. Old strings have lost their playability to increased intra-string friction, less elasticity or snap back - this will have a noticeable effect no matter what tension you start at.
I'm not saying you will like low tension, most my friends don't like my one stick I keep around strung at 36lbs, but one switched over full time to hurricane 17 at 34lbs.
I see a lot of folks recommending "pre-stretching". Doesn't that do the same bad thing you just mentioned below, makes it less elastic? In otherwords, wouldn't pre-stretch then string at 40lb same as "strung at 55lb and lost 15lb or so in a week".
It is different. Think of poly as a spring in a pen. If you over pull it , say 55lbs in poly, it deformes and doesn't go back. You loose playability. Gently pre stretching at 40 lbs does not deform the strings characteristics.
I tried pre-stretching, but I thought it made the string bed too dead and boardy. I think it depends on what you want for feel. I tend to like the strings to feel loose and lively.
Prestretching is really to improve tension maintenance and yeah I think it can make things boardy. Though I like it boardy so its OK with me.
The question is how playable the string bed is and for how long. If you don't mind restringing and like a loose feel then prestretching may not be for you, but with some stings like monogutzx, you have to prestretch or it will lose tension soooo fast, and that is already a loose and lively string.
I took the racquet out yesterday, 10 days after my last outing. I forgot to check the tension before playing, but I did check after. It had dropped from 30 lbs ten days ago to 29.5 lbs.
It's pretty hard to argue with such low tension loss.
At what tension do you generally begin losing power? My 97S was strung mid January at 27/24 lbs and I actually find it more controllable now. Is it because I've become accustomed to the low tensions or that the setup has lost power?
Totally depends on who you play against, how you hit, and what kind of ball you want to hit.
The needs of a top pro are different than the needs of you and I. I"m happy with a stiff racket and 35 lbs. But a racket with 63 stiffness might need 43 lbs. And one of 60 flex rating might need 47 lbs. For me, a low 4.0.
Tension loss, can pretty much be split out to the different ways changes over time in string stiffness affects spin, power, trajectory, and accuracy. If you found the stringjob more comfortable now than originally strung you'll quickly discover if it is you or the string that changed when you restring it.
I currently use the Wilson Revolve strings with my 18x16 frame @ 40 lbs and it plays much better than it did at 50 lbs. With that said, there was a good 15 minute break in period in which I could not achieve the spin that is inherent with this string and string pattern. Hit with it first for a little while. As far as 30 lbs, I would be very reluctant because it just seems like overkill.
I tried Signum Pro Poly 17L at 40 lbs. It played fine but I really did not like the feel. I think I will stick to 52. Seems like this might be the wrong type of string for super low tension anyway?
Maybe wrong racket or player also
Seriously low tension not for all players but surely worth trying.
52 is still a nice low end tension that will not hurt your arm that much and offer lots of power.
I enjoy 40 ranges and dont like to get much higher than the low 50s.
Tension depends on what strings you're using, as well as preference, what racket you're using, and air temps....and other things, of course.
Stiff racket's can be controllable with very soft tensions, while soft rackets do need some tension to maintain control.
Is that the way round you meant to say this?
English, please. I don't understand code.
It means did you interchange stiff and soft in the sentence - as (perhaps conventional) wisdom would say a stiff racquet is the one that needs tension to maintain control?
OK, I understand your question.
No, I typed and meant it correctly.
A stiff racket does indeed have more power, but lower tensions allow for more spin, keeping the ball IN even if you hit through the ball with a little topspin and combo side.
Conversely, a soft flexing racket has tons of control, but soft strings make it a mushy, unprecise and hard to control flexy flyer, something less than ideal for good tennis.
Heh, that may have been too English for Lee to understand.
I find the ELT behaves differently enough from racket to racket to belie any generalisation.
Right, you Irishman can't tell the difference between a Weed 135 and a PS-85, and string it the same.
I live in Ireland. I'm from Texas. Which means I'll choose not to share your insult with my fellow Irish friends out of respect to them, Lee.
If you go a page or two back you'll see I've experimented with many rackets in various tension ranges.
The phrase you were having difficulty with prior was a typically English manner of phrasing it. It's not the way an American would have phased it. Which was what brought about my comment that it may have been too English. We Americans often forget that we have a very different version of English in use.
I can't say that has been my experience. My racquet has a low 56-55 flex, and I think it's great with a soft poly in the mid/high 30s. Maybe you're referring to extreme low tensions (sub 30 lbs), which I haven't tried.
My moderate tension racket's, that are low compared to my peers.
Aero500's weighted to 12 oz and 330 SW's, STBite16 at 35 lbs.
Bio300T weighted to 12.3 oz, 325 SW, Kirshbaum Spiky Shark 16, maybe 15, at 35 lbs.
Prince Red, STBite16 at 40 lbs.
4DAero300, STBite16 at 47 lbs.
The last, softest at 60, is almost too soft at 47 lbs. dropped to around 42. Long dwell time, hard to hit against hard hitters at such low tensions.
The first, stiffness at 68 or 69, is very playable against the hardest hitters at 35 lbs., and it probably dropped to 31 lbs after the previous 2 years.
Very interesting take on tensions. I will give a low tension poly a try in a stiff racquet (Pure Aero Tour) and see what results I get. I have been using much lower tensions recently with good results.
PS: I realised from LeeD's "English please" comment that there was likely a difference in use between English and American English as the phrase i used is common in the UK (and Ireland by the looks of things). No worries, when i'm walking along the pavement later, as lorries go by, i'll give that more consideration.
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