LTEC 0S/4S Playtest

Discussion in 'Strings' started by TenFanLA, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Background: ~4.5 player using 3 MG Rad Pros 100" 16x19, usual setup B5E/Nvy 52/56. Imagine an older, slower, shorter 4.5 Djokovic, that's me.

    I ordered 2 sets of 0S and 4S each from TW yesterday. Thanks to TW's great service and Golden State Overnight's speedy delivery I received them today. Unfortunately it started raining out of the blue so I cannot play till tomorrow or Mon night. Here are my observations so far:

    0S 17 is ever so slightly thinner than 4S 17 but hardly noticeable. 4S is supposed to be squoval but it looks and feels round to me. Both strings look and feel like WC Silverstring 1.25 and they stretch about the same on the stringer. If I didn't see the packaging I'd swear these are WC SS strings. I hope LTEC didn't repackage WC SS with JET method, mark up the string 200% and called it LTEC. I love SS but I would like a some more spin potential than it gives.

    I used the JET method which took me over an hour. Calling that "JET" method is like calling a 6'9", 340lb offensive lineman "Tiny." 0S/4S were pretty easy to string but I had to double, triple check the JET method so I didn't mess up these strings that cost 2x, 3x what I normally use.

    Bottom line: If LTEC (1)plays as well as my B5E/Nvy setup for over 12 hours or (2)plays noticeably better than my B5E/Nvy for at least 6 hours, then I'm sold. If not, you can add me to the Wall of Shame for suckers. To be continued...
     
    #1
  2. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    4,821
    thanks, TenFanLA! looking forward to reading your feedback because i'm really not willing to spend $20+ on any set of strings.

    4S sounds just like the $16 Thunderstrings QU4TTRO. that's also a squoval string. it's silver in color, too, and looked and felt round to me as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #2
  3. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875
    Location:
    The fishy looking thing that sticks off the East C
    1st of all-- "Squoval" is a fantastic word. It has now been added to my vocabulary.


    Looking forward to hearing your results since I'm currently hitting a similar setup to your usual. I "JETted" my first set of strings tonight (although not L-tec) and am looking forward to trying them out.


    At what tension did you string them?
     
    #3
  4. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Oops, I forgot to list it. 44/44.
     
    #4
  5. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875
    Location:
    The fishy looking thing that sticks off the East C
    Cool deal, I'm trying @ 49 with my normal poly setup
     
    #5
  6. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394
    TenFanLA, could you also compare them to WC SS strung "JET method" to eliminate other variables? Thanks!

    Personally, I hate the word squoval. I'm not very fond of portmanteaus in general, though. Granted, "superellipse (|x/a|^n + |y/b|^n = 1), where a=b, 1 < n < 2" isn't as marketable, but marketability has hardly seemed to play a part in L-TEC's decisions so far! :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #6
  7. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    803
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    I too am going to give the 4S a shot as a cross with gut.

    Can someone post a link to the Jet method. I've searched all over the place and only seem to find variations of it that people have experimented with. I want to know the exact methods that are recommended for this string in a 18x20 frame strung on a CP with fixed clamps.

    Every thing I've found in a search is some variation of the original method that some one has tried..
     
    #7
  8. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    I only have 1.20mm SS, not the 1.25mm so that would be another variable. Personally I'm not as curious about the JET method as I am with LTec. The only reason I used JET is because it is highly recommended with LTec. Once I hit with LTec I will be able to tell personally how it differs from SS and other strings, and if it is worth it for me to keep paying the premium price.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
    #8
  9. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    http://www.***********************/blog/2012/01/jaycee-method-of-tennis-string-installation-defined/

    I think that is the best, from the source instruction you can get for free at this time. I think the FULL JET method is only available if you go train with them in person. GG Tennis also said they will post the full JET method sometime in early 2012.
     
    #9
  10. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Oops, that link doesn't work. Go to GG Tennis --> click on "Blog" --> 3rd entry is what you are looking for.
     
    #10
  11. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    803
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    ^^OK thanks. I'm kinda like you posted earlier. I'm not really interested in JET but I do want to try the L-Tec. Since it's recommended I want to try it right. I just have to figure out how to deal with the Gut. Do you think you follow the JET process with the NG mains as well?? That's what I'm planning to try, but who knows..
     
    #11
  12. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    I'm no expert in JET so I can't really give you qualified advice. However a couple of advanced players who tested Gut/4S seem to prefer 0S/4S. I believe at least one of them used JET for gut as well.
     
    #12
  13. Cfidave

    Cfidave Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Messages:
    1,188
    Location:
    Elmira,NY
    Played Ltec Os/3s at 44/46 in a Prestige Pro, strung Jet method on an electronic constant pull machine. Gave it about 3 hours of hard playing time, all the normal shots, serves, etc. Cut it out and went back to my standard Bhbr/multi hybrid, which IMO out plays it in all respects. Very expensive play test, but I just had to find out for myself.
     
    #13
  14. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    803
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    ^^OK great, thanks. I found the link you suggested and saved it. I will use JET with mains and crosses on the first try and see what happens. Thanks for your help..

    I haven't really had an issue with tension or tension maintenance but like you said, want to try what they recommend first, then go from there.
     
    #14
  15. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394
    Well, it's not really about whether or not one is interested in the method. They recommend that method for all polys, because they say it improves playability, durability, and tension maintenance. So if they're right--and I do think the "magic" is more in the method--then SS could be just as great (or very close) strung JET as L-TEC strings strung JET. So without comparing them to a very good non-L-TEC string strung in the same manner, I don't think one can really say if it was the method primarily or the strings primarily.

    If you decide to get SS 1.25 and test it strung just as the L-TEC ones are, that would be an excellent experiment. Maybe someone has a reel and could send you a set for this worthy cause?
     
    #15
  16. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875
    Location:
    The fishy looking thing that sticks off the East C
    I just finished my reel but I can try it out once I get a new one. I'm working through 3 playtests right now but it'll be next on my list.
     
    #16
  17. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394
    alidisperanza, you mean you'll compare the 0s to SS, both strung JET? Thanks from us all!
     
    #17
  18. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394
    And I guess technically it's not JET but the JayCee method, which is its predecessor, since JET isn't published anywhere.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
    #18
  19. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875
    Location:
    The fishy looking thing that sticks off the East C
    I thought you meant JC SS to regular SS, Don't have my hands on L-Tec yet. If I can source a set, Sure
     
    #19
  20. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394
    JC SS to regular SS would be a necessary test too. It'd be great if you'd do that!
     
    #20
  21. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875
    Location:
    The fishy looking thing that sticks off the East C
    Cool deal, I'm on it once I get through my current list.
     
    #21
  22. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    I believe GoSurfboy, Arches3 and Levy1 all tried LTec with traditional stringing method as well, and found LTec to be a superior string. If JET gives you better durability and tension maintenance on any poly, that's a big plus. My main reason and hope is that LTec (with or without JET) will give me a noticeable improvement in playability. I'd rather get 6 hours of level 10 play vs 20 hours of level 8 play.

    Cfidave, however, preferred BHBR over LTec even without price factored in. Only one way to find out if LTec is fo real tho (for me anyway)... Hopefully I'll be able to do that tonight or tomorrow night...
     
    #22
  23. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    4,821
    cfidave prefers his BHBR/multi hybrid. i've never tried BHBR in a hybrid, but in a full bed, i don't like BHBR.

    it seems like L-Tec 4S might be rebranded Thunderstrings QU4TTRO which I have tried before and found it perform just ok. i didn't find anything really special about it.
     
    #23
  24. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394
    Awesome. Looking forward to it.
     
    #24
  25. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394
    I guess our goals differ, TenFanLA. What I really want is to extend the life of my gut and poly in a gut/poly hybrid, since I love how it feels and plays,so I'm looking for various ways to do that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
    #25
  26. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    First Drive with 0S/4S at 44lbs

    What is this thing? My 4.0 opponent/friend asked me after hitting with my 0S/4S racket after hitting with my B5E/Nvy and BHB7 rackets. I just told him it's a new string that costs even more than Alu or RPM, and he said he understood why...We played 2 sets of singles and then hit for 1 hour, and I played better and with more confidence than I have in months.

    I hit with all 3 rackets and had my friend hit with them as well to see how it looks/feels on the other end. 0S/4S has the spin and control of B5E/Nvy + plush pocketing + power in reserve. 0S/4S has the spin and power of BHB7 + better control. It is the closest I've gotten to ALU performance without the harshness. It's ALU - arm pain + longetivity...maybe ALU/Gut or Gut/ALU hybrid feel. After 3 hours 0S/4S are still snapping nicely back into place.

    I've never served better before. I could hit the ball anywhere in the box with wicked slice, nasty kick and flat serves that skidded thru the court. It seemed that my flat serves and groundstrokes just hugged the ground.

    Groundstrokes were very similar to hitting with ALU, plenty of pop, spin and just the feeling of being able to swing away without fear of hitting long, as long as my footwork and technique were sound.

    Volleys, overheads, drop shots were as if I were hitting with gut/ALU. So much touch and feel. I don't know how much of it has to do with LTec or JayCee or JET or the price of tea in China...and frankly I don't care. This is simply the best full poly setup I've used.

    Of course it's only 1 session and I am trying not to get too excited about LTec yet. But if LTec plays the same or close to how it played tonight for at least 6 hours, then it's a no brainer for me. I've always wanted to play with ALU but it kills my arm after 1-2 hours. If I can get the same or similar playability from LTec for 6 hours without the arm pain, I'm switching to this string.

    The only ? I have is...if LTec plays well until it breaks (let's say 20 hours), will the 2nd racket be ok going 2-4 weeks without being played or will it die? I hope not because if it plays like how Arches3 said, LTec could easily last me 20 hours.
     
    #26
  27. J_aces

    J_aces Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    648
    Have you ^^ used bhbr
     
    #27
  28. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394
    Just curious, have you tried similar low tensions before or only this time when you strung the 0s/4s?
     
    #28
  29. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Yes. BHBR gave me wicked topspin and sidespin. The power and comfort were good. However the directional control after 2 hours faded and I could not hit with confidence in a real match.
     
    #29
  30. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    I've hit with ALU Power, RPM 17, Cyclone 18, BHBR 17, BHSR 17, B5E, etc. all at 45-47 lbs. The string that gave me the best control and confidence at low tension was ALU. However even at 47lbs it killed my arm after 2 hours.
     
    #30
  31. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    4,821
    i tried BHBR and i couldn't control the direction of the ball either. this was w/ a fresh bed at 50#. maybe i strung it too high. spin wasn't even impressive either. i got alot more spin w/ Tour Bite. BHBR felt ok when i camped out a few feet behind the baseline and tried whaling on the ball w/ a Western FH grip. then the ball would get decent action and land in, but where it would land was sometimes a bit of a surprise.
     
    #31
  32. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    4,821
    good stuff! i may have to try this string myself especially since i had the same trouble w/ directional control w/ BHBR. because of my similar experience w/ that string, your opinion/feedback has alot more credibility for me.
     
    #32
  33. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Oh and I'm quite sure LTec is NOT rebranded WC SS. As much as I like SS, LTec gave me much more spin than SS.
     
    #33
  34. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    It's worth a playtest just to see for yourself. Not everyone is going to like it. But those who love ALU's characteristics but would like more comfort and longevity should find LTec very pleasing.
     
    #34
  35. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,767
    Difficult to see why you would need slow pulls for gut.
     
    #35
  36. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,767
    50lbs on a crank is way too low. If you used 17, then that was the second faux pas, especially if you're hitting in a 100/16x19 or similar. The spin and action on the ball that BHBR generates is enormous. If you can't generate spin and action on the ball, its down to you, not the string. Control does begin to degrade over time as the string becomes more elastic and powerful but you're talking 3-5 hours in, not when freshly strung.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
    #36
  37. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    4,821
    nope...i don't use a crank. i use an electronic CP machine.

    nope again...i laced it up in a 95 16x19.

    nope x3. i get plenty of action on the ball w/ Tour Bite. BHBR is NOT even close to TB for me as far as spin production and control.

    i HATED it in my friend's racquet, but i thought i would give it another shake given that i didn't string my friend's racquet and i didn't know how many hrs were on that string bed.

    i got the same results w/ a fresh string bed strung on an electronic CP
    machine. for me, BHBR is a fail. feel is one of the most important characteristics in a string for me. BHBR lacks feel big time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
    #37
  38. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    I play better using ltec 0s/4s as well. I noticed 2 drops in tension. One after first hit of an hour. The next not till 20 hours. This is also when I noticed a slight drop in performance. The string then broke after a few more hours.

    So I'm going to look for the 2nd drop and just restring when this happens. First drop was a couple pounds. Second drop another couple. Referenced to measuring using freqmess right after stringing. Perhaps if I used the jet method it could go longer. But I didn't have patience more than going slow.
     
    #38
  39. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    I got an email reply from John Youngblood at GG Tennis. He said that with LTec + JET (or JayCee) I should be able to keep a backup frame without using it for 2-4 weeks and expect to lose 2 lbs. For sure using JET is a pain in the rear but it may be worth it esp. if I only need to restring every 20 hours instead of my usual 4-6.

    Before I hit with my LTec racket I let it sit for 24 hours so I didn't notice any drop in tension after my first hit as it probably dropped 1-2 lbs overnight (not that I'm tuned in enough to tell the difference of 1-2lbs.) It's still early to make any final conclusions/decisions but I want to thank you, GoSurfBoy and Levy1 and also JY at GGT. Without your posts and JY's informative consultation, I wouldn't have playtested LTec and would have dismissed it as a ridiculously overpriced gimmick.
     
    #39
  40. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    Ah, now there are two variables to test: you need to string your former reference racquet using the JET method and compare.
     
    #40
  41. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,815
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    I just tried stringing a racket with the JayCee method and did not see any big difference in the time it took to string a racket. I strung my racket @ 40 reference tension set to memory with the slowest pull setting. I strung three mains one side then 3 mains on the other and lowered the tension to 36 to string the next three mains on each side. Then I raised the tension to 44 for the two outside mains on each side and the top two crosses. Then recalled reference tension from memory and strung crosses 3-17. Raised tension to 48 for crosses 19 and 18.

    If anything it was faster and easier to string the crosses with poly at the lower tensions.
     
    #41
  42. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Stringing B5E/Nvy using JET may improve tension maintenance and prolong the useful life. But I doubt that JET/JayCee/Traditional/Shaolin stringing method would significantly improve the playing qualities. I experienced enough improvement from LTec vs B5E/Nvy and LTec vs BHB7 that I'm quite confident that JET alone is not responsible for the improvement in playing qualities. Plus I'm too lazy. Arches3 and I believe Levy1 both saw improvements in using LTec vs their usual strings without using JET in both setups.
     
    #42
  43. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Yeah, time wise it's not too bad. It's just remembering and changing tensions that require more thinking than I'm used to. Esp. when stringing with an expensive string like LTec it requires more attention and care. I'm sure after a few stringings it will become pretty routine.
     
    #43
  44. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,394
    I believe it's that kind of thinking that they're relying on to generate sales.
     
    #44
  45. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    If someone brings out a new product at a higher price point than the popular name brands, with clever marketing they may get people to try it once. But if the quality/value is not there, people won't keep buying the product and the company won't prosper. As I've said, I'm not completely sold on LTec yet. I love the playability but longevity remains to be seen. Personally I believe LTec can be more revolutionary and beneficial to the non-pros (than ALU) who shouldn't be subjecting their elbows to ALU harshness, and can benefit more from the longer playability and better tension maintenance.
     
    #45
  46. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    4,821
    it's probably better that you didn't try the L-Tec strings w/ JET method at the same time. had you done that, how would you be able to tell if it was the string that played better than your regular setup or the stringing method. best to introduce change one at a time.

    i'm not sure if the JET/JC method significantly improve playing qualities, but in my own experience w/ Solinco Outlast and Tour Bite using the method, the strings last longer. i got 50-100% more playable life out of these 2 strings than i had previously gotten. i also get better ball pocketing using this method.

    with your favorable review, i'll have to try out this new string.
     
    #46
  47. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    4,821
    changing tensions doesn't take much additional time. it's the tuning that adds time to the stringing especially the first few times because it's not always easy to get the first 3 left and right mains to ping out at the same pitch.

    you're right that the changing of tensions becomes routine after a few more times.

    also, i cut and pasted the below excerpt from the G&G blog page...

    First, it needs to be understood that the JayCee Method and the JET methodology are both designed to be used by stringers who are using Stringway equipment. (Specifically the most recent JET Method makes use of Stringway machines, Stringway flying clamps, and Stringway Cross Stringing Tools.) Since the majority of stringers are not using this exact equipment, there are some aspects that may need to be altered for constant pull electronic machines.

    the reason why this is important is because some of the increases in tension on the final mains and crosses are done because John is double pulling and because he's using SW flying clamps. if you're using fixed clamps you probably need to modify some of these instructions per G&G.
     
    #47
  48. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    Bingo.

    Regardless, I agree about the longevity. I've played with strings that have peaked very highly, but simply do not last long enough to be worth further mention. A great example is Cyclone 18. Astounding playability, but only for a few hours. Because of the ridiculous drop in performance, it's not as worthwhile as something that is 75% as good as the peak, but for the duration of its life.
     
    #48
  49. Doubles

    Doubles Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,280
    Location:
    Approaching the net
    I got my strings today. I'll string them up tomorrow, and see if I can hit with them later in the week.
     
    #49
  50. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,400
    Before LTec I tried many full bed polys, ALU, B5E, Cyclone, BHBR, BHSR, PHT, BB Ace, RPM, PS Energy, etc. with low tension, slow pull and giving 10 secs to set. So more like mini-JET. The only strings that I felt benefited from the mini-JET were ALU and B5E (probably because they are very firm.) The others performed better at my usual tension of 52.

    So from my personal experience which string you use with JET is important. LTec + JET = enhanced performance whereas BHBR + JET = FAIL. I usually go with what the manufacturer recommends since I figure they've done a lot more testing than I could ever possibly do or want to do.
     
    #50

Share This Page