MacEnroe is right, Federer isn't the best volleyer in the top 10.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tistrapukcipeht, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    He says is Nadal, I have to agree, because Federer put away volleys is just awful, Nadal rarely misses a put away, or while in movement volley, in this match alone Federer has made so many mistakes in all types of volleys, it's hard to believe Federer would miss those. He has to work on these volleys more.

    If Federer doesn't serve and volley it isn't because of conditions, it's because he doesn't have it anymore.
     
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  2. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    yuuuuuuuup
     
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  3. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

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    yet another mistake in tiebreak
     
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  4. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    another one just happened again, he just can't do it anymore.
     
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  5. firefox

    firefox Semi-Pro

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    true story. :shock:
     
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  6. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I'd say Tsonga is a better volleyer but honestly Fed usually isn't this bad at the net, he made some Roddick like approaches today.
     
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  7. rtl11

    rtl11 New User

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    Nadal goes to net only when the put-away is easy

    Not to take away from Nadal - he really has great volleys, but he often goes to net well after his shot when he has had time to estimate the impact, and still using his superior movement skills can get very quickly to net for the put away.

    Fed and most other people go to net a bit speculatively daring the opponent to pass them.
     
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  8. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    Exactly. When is the last time you saw Nadal hit an approach shot in the middle of the court daring an opponent to pass him. Never.
    But he's very good at quickly closing to the net and putting away volleys.
     
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  9. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    That's why I'm saying it, because while Nadal doesn't miss easy put away volleys or running forward volleys, Federer has missed at least 6-7 on this match alone.
     
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  10. Federererer

    Federererer Banned

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    I have to agree with this. FEd is the most overrated volleyer there is. But even worse than his volleying is his decision making on which balls to come in on. He has absolutely no sense whatsoever about how to do this. What the hell is Annacone teaching him??????
     
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  11. OldFedIsOld

    OldFedIsOld Professional

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    He should really look up the Tennis Tips/Instructions section for some advice from our expert coaches here on TT.
     
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  12. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Can't Federer have a bad day on volleys. Round 1 and 2....he volleyed incredible.
     
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  13. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    Fact 1: Fed uses 90 sq in. Nadal uses 100.

    Fact 2: When Fed goes to 110, he will be the Top volleyer again. :)
     
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  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Professional

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    Y'all act as though this was prime Federer playing. Where was all the crap talk when Federer won those 16 majors? Or how about when he was steam rolling the first 2 rounds. The man is getting old. Get over it, he'll have more and more bad days. If you guys can't accept it, then this game isn't for you.
     
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  15. InspectorRacquet

    InspectorRacquet Semi-Pro

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    I think McEnroe is wrong. Federer is a very good volleyer, and when compared to Nadal, can look bad. Nadal comes to the net when the volley is one hundred percent certain to not come back. As others have said, Federer comes to the net daring the opponent to be passed.

    We all know Djokovic isn't a better volleyer than Federer. Berdych is pretty good, but he's no Federer. The rest of the top 10 isn't great compared to Federer in volleying.
     
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  16. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    Ah there is already a thread on this. Anyway, Mcenroe can be bit of a ********* sometimes!
     
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  17. brickner_damage

    brickner_damage Banned

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    But Mc's comments weren't about prime Federer..
     
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  18. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

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    Monaco for best volleyer.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Imo, fed's volleying today had more to do with bad approaches to the JB bh of all things, rather than his absolute skill at the net.

    he was coming in behind alot of balls that he should have stayed back on. or just not hitting good approaches he.

    fed was really trolling andy roddick today.
     
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  20. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    Actually he did it yesterday in the first game of the 5th set and missed a backhand volley to give Rosol the break that determined the result of the match. I was so surprised by Rafa's poor approach shot because you're right that he rarely does that. I guess we now know why.
     
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  21. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

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    In fairness to the Roddick comparisons.

    Roddick gets passed on a full lunge on like 90% of his approaches it seems. Fed just poked at volleys today at the net. Was pretty sad to watch.
     
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  22. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    Roddick gets passed 90% of the time because 90% of his approach shots are crappy crosscourt backhand slices that give his opponent all the time in the world to set up his shot and pass him down the line.
     
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  23. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    So who's a better volleyer? Nadal? Yea sure, try a Federer (or Roddick) like casual approach shot and see what he does from there.

    Oh and they didn't help him in his match against Rosol.
     
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  24. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    Roger had an all-round off day today. Nothing to do with volleys alone.
     
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  25. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Only in people's imaginations is Federer the best volleyer.
     
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  26. PrinceMoron

    PrinceMoron Hall of Fame

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    Fed is a lot better than ARod, thinking about that volley he couldn't make his mind up on and handed Fed the Wimbledon title.
     
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  27. Swissv2

    Swissv2 Hall of Fame

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    Indeeeeeed! If he "only" took the advice from our experts at TT, he would have..what...20+ Grand Slams by now?

    :twisted:
     
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  28. Lawn Tennis

    Lawn Tennis Semi-Pro

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    Nadal isn't a better volleyer. He just knows when to come in. Nadal rarely comes in without having the utmost upper-hand.
     
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  29. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Is that not part of being good at something? For instance you need to hit a big forehand at the right time. You don't just start blasting forehands right away, you set it up first and go with the highest reward to risk ratio.

    If you don't, then your errors add up and you lose the game.
     
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  30. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Cut the crap, how can you call someone a good volleyer when he attacks the net 5 times in a match (and on perfect approach shots)? I'd think you'd have to be a complete idiot to not use such a great asset to shorten up the points.

    So either Nadal's that or there's something wrong with your theory.
     
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  31. Lawn Tennis

    Lawn Tennis Semi-Pro

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    True. His court sense is superior therefore he makes more volleys but hits a lot less of them.

    Out of the top 10, I'd say Tsonga is by far the best volleyer.
     
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  32. Arafel

    Arafel Professional

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    I've been saying for years that Fed being the best all-courter is an illusion. He rarely ventures to the net, and when he does, he isn't a very good volleyer, but people on this board put him up against good volleyers like Rafter, Edberg, McEnroe, Becker, Sampras etc. Fed is one of the best baseliners in history. And before you bring up 2001 Wimbledon, yes, he attacked a lot in that match, but after that he pretty much stopped coming in, and his net play has died as a result.
     
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  33. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    I pretty much agree except that Fed's volleying skills didn't suddenly die in 2001, he was still a very good volleyer in the early stages of his domination up till probably early 2007 (especially the famous exhibition in AO 2007)
     
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  34. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Let's play it your way, who is the best volleyer out of the top 5 ATP players. And why do they not use such a great asset to shorten up the points, on crucial points, and to outright win?
     
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  35. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Is Tsonga in the top 5? If so I pick him.

    The top 4 are average volleyers. Djokovic is lousy at the net, Federer way too casual (with the approach shots), I hardly see Murray at the net but once he gets there he seems OK for current standards, Nadal is probably the best in easy putaways but hardly attacks the net at all or only on perfect approach shots.
     
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  36. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    If they are oh so easy why does not amazing Federer do it? Why not Tsonga, or anyone else for that matter?
     
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  37. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    Absolutely agree. Nadal doesn't use approach shots when he gets a midcourt ball. He continues the rally or hits a forehand winner and comes running to the net to put the volley away only when he has pulled his opponent way off the court. Federer, being the aggressive player that he is, sees the mid court ball and decides to move forward. His volleys on his backhand side were very vulnerable today as his approach shots were so so.

    Yesterday must have been one of the very few times that I've seen Rafa actually approach the net with an approach shot (a mediocre approach shot) and miss the backhand volley passing shot. It gave Rosol the break in the fifth set.

    Federer employs a higher risk game, always trying to move forward. With string technology being what it is these days he is at high risk of being passed than Rafa who is much more selective as to when he comes to the net.
     
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  38. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Cause Federer hits way more outright winners and generally with more pace, so attacking the net after hitting one of those shots is pointless as he's already won the point.

    Nadal needs to abuse one's backhand 10 consecutive times before he decides to hit an approach shot when his opponent is like 10 miles off the court
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
    #38
  39. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Sounds like a copout for sure, and proves the point that Federer is not the superior volleyer and never was.
     
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  40. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    I think you need to start with the basics. So if Nadal attacks the net 5 times and wins 4 of those, does that mean he's a better volleyer than Federer who, say, wins 30/50?

    How can you even compare the 2 without actually watching the way both guys hit a volley?
     
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  41. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    I don't think that you should rate the players abilities on aesthetics. That seems rather silly providing zero support for your argument.

    You guys need to just give up, Federer never was and never will be a S&V or even a volley player. Federer volleys just to keep people happy so they can pretend he is something he is not.
     
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  42. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    LOLWUT? You take more factors in, like approach shot, distance from net, power of passing shot, accuracy.

    Seriously, start with the basics and then come back.
     
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  43. akv89

    akv89 Hall of Fame

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    Federer is no serve and volleyer, but he remains the only active player to have won a major title with S&V.
     
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  44. Praetorian

    Praetorian Professional

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    I agree, people, you need to give up because mr vile won't bend. On the other hand mr vile, needs to SHUT UP.
     
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  45. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

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    What, Federer won his first Wimbledon serving and volleying, so he was a serve and volleyer at one point.
     
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  46. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    I suggest all of you should go see Sampras vs Fed 2001 if you think Fed doesn't know how to volley. He came in on pretty much every 1st serve and most of his 2nd.
     
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  47. 10is

    10is Professional

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    Exactly! Its the same with people who think Sampras was ALWAYS an immaculate volleyer who NEVER EVER EVER had off days where he missed easy putaways. Selective memory at work.
     
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  48. DoubleDeuce

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    hehehe..

    judging by one match, how smart!

    It's like saying ...oH..Nadal is not the best clay court player, because he lost to Soderling!!
     
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  49. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    This.

    Although I would not classify him as a strict baseliner, he tends to hang back too much when he had the tools for options. When he comes in, his skills are not in the conversation with McEnroe, Edberg, Becker or Sampras. To his die hard fans he only appears good because tour has been overrun by legions of baseliners with no clue about S&V play.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
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  50. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    tsonga, nadal, and federer are the best volleyers in the top ten. if fish was still in the top ten then he would edge all of them easily. nadal is consistently able to put volleys away and is a lot less reckless with approaches, federer and tsonga come in on more neutral occasions and execute tougher volleys. tsonga and federer have better 2nd volleys and court sense at net from a neutral position than nadal. no way are tsonga, nadal, and fed even near sampras, mcenroe, rafter, and edberg.

    in the FO/halle part of this year, i noticed fed wasn't missing easy putaways and sitters like he is usually guilty of doing. i thought it was a good sign. then today happened. dismal performance at net.
     
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