AmericanTemplar
Professional
I think that what fastdunn is saying is that since you often have to drop the arm on a dropweight multiple times, you may be "pre-stretching" inconsistently between one string and the next.
And how!
i think dropweight lose tension fast
Check the posters location, he/she does seem a little tense.
"and how" is an expression of great agreement.
Dictionary.com calls it an Idiom
I think I do adjustment of weight once or twice or sometimes no adjustments. I just do not know how I can make this number of adjustments consistent. This makes pulling time inconistent (to make tension consistent) and inconsistent number of pulls (sorta pre-stretching effects, unintended). I just don't know how to have control over this.
By the way, I don't use drop weight any more. I use electronic now.
I think I do adjustment of weight once or twice or sometimes no adjustments. I just do not know how I can make this number of adjustments consistent. This makes pulling time inconistent (to make tension consistent) and inconsistent number of pulls (sorta pre-stretching effects, unintended). I just don't know how to have control over this.
By the way, I don't use drop weight any more. I use electronic now.
Drop Wts. need to be calibrated once. I say this since I bought a calibrator and tested on my Klippermate and Eagnas Challenger I drop wts and they were both off. However, once you get a reference tension, it stays the same and doesn't need to be calibrated. Also, the Eagnas believe it or not was closer to the reading than the Klippermate.
In reality, if the tension bar is no longer moving after a certain amount of time (it will move at first due to "prestretching" effect), then practically the strings are in identical state.
Technically, if you left your arm tensioning a string, it would continue to elongate until either it snapped or the arm had fallen all the way to it's physical limit.
Thats an interesting one. With a synth gut it would go all the way (eventually) but with poly... Mmmmm
BTW im not going to try it
Thats an interesting one. With a synth gut it would go all the way (eventually) but with poly... Mmmmm
BTW im not going to try it
It correlates pretty well to the tension loss chart in the stringers digest.
How can you then calibrate the dropweight. I know on electrics you can but how on dropweights?
Are you saying that there is a static state that is reached during a constant pull? As in, a point where it is no longer applying more tension to the string because of some limitation in the string?
Because this is not true. Technically, if you left your arm tensioning a string, it would continue to elongate until either it snapped or the arm had fallen all the way to it's physical limit.
if you're pulling one string for 15 seconds and another one for 20 seconds, the difference between the 2 strings is not noticeable.
I know what you're saying is true.
What I said was, if you're pulling one string for 15 seconds and another one for 20 seconds, the difference between the 2 strings is not noticeable.
Most of the elongation occurs in the first few seconds. What happens after that happens very very slowly. The variation of the strings themselves may be larger than the variation of pulling 15 sec vs. 20 sec.
YULitle, on your lockout machine, does it have a slow, medium, and fast pull? What is the difference in seconds between these settings? How much of an effect does this have on initial creep? I wonder how much effect on the overall creep slope? Pre-stretch has an incredible effect for the little bit of pull that goes on early in the slope.
The question in hand is equivalent to, if I pre-stretch the string for 15 sec. vs. 20 sec., is there going to be a noticeable difference?
In the early stages, 1 sec, 2 sec, 5 sec, can make a large difference as the string is being pulled for the first time. Once "it's already stretched," however, the elongation of the string becomes slow. You see that in a constant pull machine, the tensioner, for all practical purposes, stops moving after 10 sec.
I think he means on the elctric.
The question in hand is equivalent to, if I pre-stretch the string for 15 sec. vs. 20 sec., is there going to be a noticeable difference?
In the early stages, 1 sec, 2 sec, 5 sec, can make a large difference as the string is being pulled for the first time. Once "it's already stretched," however, the elongation of the string becomes slow. You see that in a constant pull machine, the tensioner, for all practical purposes, stops moving after 10 sec.
Then yes, the TF7000 had a tension head speed control.
Sorry, just had an oblique thought that somehow the speed of the pull would effect the creep while typing. Obviously not very well formed, and didn't really lead to anything unless the slow setting was over 20 seconds.
I agree. The difference between 15 and 20 seconds is not a pound, but more likely a small fraction. Most players cannot tell a 5lbs difference in reference tension OR play with dead strings long enough to render tension obsolete. So a FRACTION of a pound, is virtually nothing.
The speed of the pull DOES affect the creep.
Do you agree it seems to initially to speed it up? As in, drop the weight hard seems to get the string in the mood for some serious elongation?
Do you agree it seems to initially to speed it up? As in, drop the weight hard seems to get the string in the mood for some serious elongation?
That seems feasible.
So the 5 second difference might be more than a fraction of a pound? Especially in the final (after 30 hour) tension?
I think he means on the elctric. A lock out is a crank BTW ...Williams
My apologies. Lock outs are all cranks? I certainly didn't mean to imply YULitle had a speed setting. I am more used to seeing big shop machines.
No, I don't think so. Difference? yes. Big difference? no.
So there isn't any real difference in string bed final tension between a slow (10 second) lock out, and a constant pull machine?
Of course there is. But that's not what I thought we were talking about.
Isn't it? If the lockout machine pulls at a certain tension for 10 seconds and then stops pulling, while a constant pull machine doesn't have any real effect after 10 seconds, wouldn't they produce the same result?
Whoops, I think I am getting it. Lock outs (especially cranks) don't pull at a tension until the string stops elongating, then lock. They pull until they hit the reference tension and then lock?
I can only posit that the drop-weight is pulling at a specific tension for 10 seconds while a slowly turned crank is pulling at a range of tensions (0-RT) over the same period, providing less creep adjustment.
How much longer you would have to crank depends on the string, gauge and tension.
So since creep past the initial few seconds doesn't matter, pulling the clutch and re-cranking would simulate a constant pull machine?
It doesn't matter.
The number of times you release tension does not matter at all.
I should have stated directly that I was referring to the crank lock out. Which now that I think about it, can't be the same as the DW even after the 2nd attempt, since the dwell time between the two pulls is still at a lower tension than my constant pull DW.DW IS constant pull.
So will a calibrated crank pull tension less consistently than a dropweight?
Depends on how consistently you string. If you are taking the same amount of time to move clamps after you pull tension then it should be as accurate.
...
What I said was, if you're pulling one string for 15 seconds and another one for 20 seconds, the difference between the 2 strings is not noticeable.
Most of the elongation occurs in the first few seconds. What happens after that happens very very slowly. The variation of the strings themselves may be larger than the variation of pulling 15 sec vs. 20 sec.
I agree 110%!
I am not quite sure if this is 100% true. If you pull 2nd time, the string is prestretched and in a different state to have tension applied.