Made in Belgium PS85?

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by gsquicksilver, Nov 18, 2010.

  1. gsquicksilver

    gsquicksilver Semi-Pro

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    there this guy on the bay claiming his stick is made in belgium and that the first few batches were made by donnay. what do you guys think? item#200542268518
     
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  2. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Is the butt cap code on that 'NVB'?
     
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  3. gsquicksilver

    gsquicksilver Semi-Pro

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    it looks like it ends in B
     
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  4. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Legit ... :eek:

    This auction is for a very rare Belgium Made Wilson Pro Staff Midsize in an astonishing collectable condition!!!

    Great solid players frame! Before production moved to Chicago in the USA, Wilson sporting goods contracted Donnay, at that time the worlds largest manufacturer of tennis racquets in the world, to produce a prestige quality graphite racquet for them. And there it was; The beginning of the legedary Wilson Pro Staff Original Midsize which was produced from 1983 till 2008! Played with by many tennis legends like Federer, Sampras, Courier, Evert, Pierce, Edberg and Krickstein who's still playing the Pro Staff racquet on senior tour.

    Condition:

    Excellent condition. Minor traces of use on top of the racquet. Structurally new. The original leather Fairway grip has some stains but still is in very good condition. (The gripsize is L3 but it feels more like a L4) The grommets are all like new except from one particular grommet on top of the racquet, the grommet strip has broken there (see picture). ONE special frame!

    No reserve on this item, so grab your chance!

    Made in Belgium!



    Specifications:

    Buttcap code: H.V.B.

    Length: Standard

    Headsize: Midsize (85 inch)

    Grip type: Fairway Leather

    Grip Size: L3, 4 3/8

    Cover: Included, please note; no strap
     
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  5. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    The code is "N.V.B."

    I've seen the seller post this frame a couple of times now.
     
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  6. gsquicksilver

    gsquicksilver Semi-Pro

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    any insight whether this is legit or he pulled this out of his arse?
     
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  7. courtking

    courtking Semi-Pro

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    THe seller is a long time vintage legit seller.. i've bought a few from him in the past.. great seller I would say.. He used to have some rare Head Prestiges before..
     
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  8. Alex75

    Alex75 Rookie

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    despite the good feedback, the description and all i don't buy it...
     
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  9. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Someone email Wilson and find out.....
     
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  10. Figjam

    Figjam Banned

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    LOL, this would explain why the Pro One Midsize is twice as good ;-)
     
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  11. Dave M

    Dave M Hall of Fame

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    and don't forget the original pure control!
     
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  12. Cooper_Tecnifibre4

    Cooper_Tecnifibre4 Professional

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    Might i ask who is in you Avatar?
     
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  13. ericsson

    ericsson Hall of Fame

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    Well you should cos i can confirm that it is true, for a very short period Pro Staff Originals were made in Belgium at the Donnay factory.
     
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  14. MAXXply

    MAXXply Hall of Fame

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    Would be funny if those nay-sayers and skeptics suddenly decide to get their hands on one and come back here bleating about it.
     
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  15. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Ericsson... how can you tell a Belgian PS? Is it the butt cap code ending in B?
     
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  16. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    I have a few Wilson Jack Kramer Autographs that were made in England.
     
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  17. petema99

    petema99 Rookie

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    I have a prostaff virtually identical to that one. It has a buttcap code of HVB as well. In real life the racquet seems to be slightly more glossy than my late SV and from the pictures that one appears a bit glossier too. My friend also has one with JTB as the buttcode.

    The funny thing is that the sticker in the throat says '45/8 (L5) string at 55-65 lbs' which would indicate that it isn't one of the earliest ones as I heard they had a recommended tension of 65-70?
     
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  18. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Didn't the early SV's also have flatter throat grommets? The ones on the auction site has the more raised throat grommets like the later SV's.
     
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  19. ericsson

    ericsson Hall of Fame

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    Yes Bud, as a matter of fact HVB and HPB were made in Belgium in 1984. (due to the favourable currency rate)
     
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  20. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    If that's the way it was, that explains the frames over the years I've seen on e-bay with those butt cap codes that are otherwise the typical Chicago/SV looking frames.
     
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  21. petema99

    petema99 Rookie

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    So, is my PS definately made in Belgium then?
     
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  22. TJfederer16

    TJfederer16 Hall of Fame

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    As what pete was saying, we bought two ps85's from some guy on the bay a while ago, he stated they were sv's, but from the butt cap which reads JTB on mine and HVB on pete's, it is very similar to the Belgian ps85, here are some pics of mine and is it the Belgium version?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. TJfederer16

    TJfederer16 Hall of Fame

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    #23
  24. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    The thing that gets me about this discussion is the grip size and recommended tension stickers and the use of a black primer instead of the red of the Chicago and SV.

    There was talk of early Chicago frames having a black primer. Perhaps these were the types of frames that "came from Belgium...."

    FWIW, heres a pic of the throat from the frame from the e-bay auction:

    [​IMG]

    It looks a lot like the pic you show, TJfederer. Different than the two stickers used for the Chicago and early/mid SVs.
     
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  25. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    I've just acquired two Belgium PS 85 frames with an HNB and JTB code.
    Michel Guilluy, à Belgium Donnay historian and personal friend, confirmed the fact that Wilson had their PS frames made by Donnay in Couvin, Belgium for à short period.
    Specs: bumperless, black primer, 55-65 lbs tension, midsize and Pro Staff printed twice on the shaft, white buttcap and the code is printed under the "W" ending with a "B".
     
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  26. Tennis Man

    Tennis Man Hall of Fame

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    What really interest me is not whether or not PS 85 was ever made in Belgium but if it has any connection to Donnay Pro Cynetic 1.

    Remember, a while ago we had a discussion about whether or not Sampras used this frame? The specs are very similar and PC1 was always bumperless (aside from the one I use from Arias' inventory with PS 85 bumper guard :)) just like the original Chicago PS 85.

    I still prefer PS85 braided graphite composition as opposed to PC1 graphite/fiberglass but they are both great classic racquets.
     
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  27. Tennis Man

    Tennis Man Hall of Fame

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  28. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    According to Michel Guilluy, Donnay's answer to the PS 85 was the Pro Cynetic. I will check with him and try to find some answers.
    He's not a specs guy but maybe he has got documentation on the subject.
     
    #28
  29. Tennis Man

    Tennis Man Hall of Fame

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    Now it makes perfect sense. Wilson was looking for a right spot to make PS 85 and they tried Donnay but later for one reason or another moved to St Vincent. Donnay got the PS 85 mold as a "souvenir" and started making Pro Cynetic few years later. Sampras tried the racquet but stayed with PS 85 but a few other pros apparently signed (Aries, etc).
     
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  30. ericsson

    ericsson Hall of Fame

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    I already confirmed that Pete Sampras used the Pro Cynetic 1 before signed by Wilson, the reason he signed with Wilson was because he gives preference for an "American" company...
     
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  31. racquetfreak

    racquetfreak Semi-Pro

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    i havetwo - JTB and JXB. unlike sv and chicago versions, the only have one label showing grip size and rec tension on the inside throat.
     
    #31
  32. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Yep, those are Couvin PS frames allright...
    Mine have just a sticker too......and Midsize and Pro Staff is printed on both sides of the shaft. The black primer and slightly glossier finish is unique for de Belgium PS too.
     
    #32
  33. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    I know the guy, very legit!!
     
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  34. racquetfreak

    racquetfreak Semi-Pro

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    me too - he is totally trustworthy.
     
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  35. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Yes, not unlike some other sellers.....!!

    Did someone accidentally bid on a new adidas GTX PRO-T recently?
    Just to find out that the seller ended the auction prematurely?

    There were several for sale, I'm talking about the two listed by the "alfabet" guy?
     
    #35
  36. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    what is the price that these normally go for ?
     
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  37. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Depends, since the Belgium PS85's were the first ones made their quality was, to say the least, fluctuating. The PS was in a developing stage and many of the early ones broke due to fatique. By the time the production ended in Couvin they had the manufacturing and braiding proces figured out and took the production to Chicago and the Grenadines.
    My last Belgium PS has a superficial crack in the shaft, still playable but I'm not taking any chances of losing it all together because they are such a rare item to own.
    A good 8 or 9/10 condition Belgium PS without cracks would fetch as much as a mint St Vincent, if not more ($350).
    Even my semi cripled one will not part from me for less than $175.
     
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