Madrid faster than US Open?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by clayrules, May 17, 2009.

  1. clayrules

    clayrules Banned

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    WOW i have never seen so many service winners and aces on clay!!! not even in the US Open!!! that was fast as hell!

    why did the ATP screw the clay season with this fake clay tourney?
    pfff even Hamburg was better. now we have two masters on real clay before the french. clay is soo fast! they better make it on blue clay to make madrid the big joke it is! worst clay tourney!
     
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  2. DarthFed

    DarthFed Hall of Fame

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    Only because Nadal didn't win it correct?
     
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  3. clayrules

    clayrules Banned

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    incorrect. when did you start watching clay tennis?
     
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  4. bizarre_opinion

    bizarre_opinion Rookie

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    is this a joke right?
     
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  5. Nadalator

    Nadalator Banned

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    i agree, madrid is a disgrace for clay tennis
     
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  6. Nadal_Monfils

    Nadal_Monfils Semi-Pro

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    It's basically red grass!
     
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  7. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    They should put Madrid after the early Hardcourt season so it's easier to adjust into the clay court season. Then put Rome next, as it's slower but still faster than RG, and then put Monte Carlo last before the French Open as it's the slowest and most similar to Roland Garros.

    So it'd be
    Madrid - Rome - Monte Carlo - French Open
    And that'd be fastest to slowest.

    Makes sense to anyone else?

    Also, it's highest to lowest in altitude. And Monte Carlo is a good place to end the pre-French Open season because the tourney is basically in France so it makes sense being the last one before Paris.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
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  8. Mungo73

    Mungo73 Banned

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    yeah good thread

    where is the real clay? this is a fraud!
     
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  9. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    I agree. The higher bounce and the high speed make it so hard to return. Not true clay court tennis by any means. Roddick getting a set on Fed and not Nadal? What a joke.
     
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  10. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    you say aces on any clay surface surmounts the ace-count at the USO?
    WHAT? go revive your ability to recollect the past by watching any year of the USO.
    it's just all about the playing the conditions man. madrid is drier and is higher up altitude-wise in comparison to the other big clay masters. balls will fly faster. but insinuating that speeds at madrid clay are similar to speeds at USO hard is a stretch.
     
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  11. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

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    Ok, so people complain about fans claiming that the grass at Wimby is slow when Fed loses. Now when Nadal loses on clay, the clay is too fast. Please people, stop blaiming external factors all the time and making excuses and just enjoy the tennis.
     
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  12. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    I'm starting to agree that maybe they are trying homogenize the tournaments. Making clay faster as well now.
     
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  13. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    this makes sense to me. the atp should have just kept madrid an indoor court in the first place. but i will say that the stadium court looks very nice, and has a color scheme that contrasts well with the natural clay color.
     
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  14. Dan007

    Dan007 Hall of Fame

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    This is why there were so much criticism against the tournament before the tournament started talking about the altitude and controversial blue clay. This tournament should have stayed as indoor tournament.
     
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  15. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    They could've at least used a softer clay that absorbs some of the energy that altitude adds to. The courts were very firm as well to make it play faster.
     
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  16. It's just another tournament guys. All courts play a little different to some degree. Ok this was faster than other clay courts. Big whoop. Give it a rest.
     
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  17. ronalditop

    ronalditop Hall of Fame

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    I guess they realized how boring it is for people to watch the extremely slow tennis clay courts offers.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
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  18. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

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    Yeah it's not true clay court tennis. If Nadal won, it would be true clay court tennis, though. Because only Nadal wins on a true clay court.
     
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  19. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

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    So the organizators should slow down Madrid next year?(and speed up Wimby this year:?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
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  20. swedechris

    swedechris Banned

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    I Loved It!
     
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  21. crazylevity

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  22. crazylevity

    crazylevity Hall of Fame

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  23. CEvertFan

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    There is no way that any clay is as fast as the US Open courts or even the slower grass at Wimbledon. Not even the Madrid clay. The Madrid clay is faster than Roland Garros because it was hot and dry and they don't water the court as much as they could or maybe should.
     
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  24. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Good, since you slowed down grass you better speed up clay too.
     
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  25. mzzmuaa

    mzzmuaa Semi-Pro

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    roddick vs federer was the real final
     
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  26. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Are you kidding? Did you guys see the Nadal-Djokovic semi? The court was so slow which allowed both players to get to so many balls they wouldn't have gotten to on a fast court. I kept thinking, boy, the ball really sits up on this court. That's why Murray lost to Del Potro in straight sets but beat him at the US Open and other fast courts. Murray is not good on slow clay courts. Just ask Juan Monaco.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
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  27. Wannabe

    Wannabe New User

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    Slow/Fast idea too simplistic?

    Does anyone other than me think we've got so hung up on the slow/fast discussion that we've forgotten that courts differ in so many ways that you need more than one parameter to describe them? Let's consider the concept of "speed". What does it mean? One logical answer is the fraction of the energy returned to a bouncing ball by the court. However, I'm gonna take a wild guess here and say that compressed cement returns more energy to the ball than grass. Does this make a hard court "faster" than a grass court? Ok, let's have another go. Perhaps it's how much of the horizontal component of a ball's velocity is returned to it. This is probably closer, because the ball skids through on grass whereas the bounce is more vertical on clay or hard. I still reckon we've got problems though when comparing different surfaces and conditions. For example, high altitude conditions might be "faster" because the atmospheric pressure is lower and there's less drag on the ball. However, the air pressure inside the ball will drop, so the ball will be "softer" and will, I'm guessing, lose more energy when it comes into contact with the court.

    In general, I reckon we define "fast" and "slow" by the sort of play we see on them. This is reasonable as a shorthand, but we need to bear in mind that it's a bit difficult to say. This clay court is faster than this hard court, because "speed" means different things on different courts.
     
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  28. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    they are still using Taraflex (or whatever they were using)... remember that it's madrid masters and it used to be Indoor super fast surface :twisted:

    only explanation for Rafa0's loss...:twisted:
     
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  29. alienhamster

    alienhamster Hall of Fame

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    Yes. Perfect scheduling, IMO. That transition would work wonderfully tourney to tourney.

    Too bad they'll never go for this.
     
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  30. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    It's a 90s indoor carpet painted red.The Madrid organizers wanted Fed to win.
     
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  31. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    So are all you guys claiming that Nadal only lost because the court was too fast in Madrid, therefore admitting that Nadal is only good on slow red clay and that his wins at Wimbledon and the Australian Open were just flukes? :oops:
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
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  32. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

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    Well they slowed down Wimbledon, which helped Nadal win it. It's about time there was a faster clay court tournament. Not every tournament can go Nadal's way. He's already got three Masters Series events on clay every year compared to zero grass Masters Series for Fed. I think this event makes it more interesting instead of having all those slow clay courts in a row and then a slow Wimbledon, otherwise it gets boring.
     
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  33. Cyan

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    Wow............................
     
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  34. Cyan

    Cyan Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, that is the true indicator....
     
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  35. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Lol seriously people are a bit extreme. Honestly it was still slow..it was about Rome speed I did not see it to be any faster. The ball definitely had the clay court bounce. It was slower than wimby and not close to the US Open.
     
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  36. herosol

    herosol Professional

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    WIN POST!

    Yes. I have never seen so many saved-winners from both djokovic and nadal.

    It's still friggin clay. If it's faster so be it. Hamburg was always a faster clay anyways. Just because he lost...wow -__-
     
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  37. inyourface

    inyourface Rookie

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    I like to Know how fast(speed) the serve of Federer was comparing to other tournaments, samebody have the stats?
     
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  38. kimbahpnam

    kimbahpnam Hall of Fame

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    Fed beats Nadal on clay and now it's the clay's fault.
     
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  39. inyourface

    inyourface Rookie

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    I´m a Rafa fan and I like the clay more fast, I think the best for the tennis is the "speed unification" and I like the USO more slow.. I only want to Know how is the speed of the clay in Madrid comparing to other tournaments and the best to mesure that is comparing the speed of Federer serve in others tournaments......
     
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  40. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

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    They're saying rafa can only win on true clay which means that the AO and Wimby are true clay! *******s are admitting it at last :shock:
     
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  41. _maxi

    _maxi Banned

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    They keep making all the courts slower, which gives an advantage to nadal, and now that there is one tourney that seems to be not so slow, you are complaining.. this could come only by *******s.
     
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  42. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    I like the courts Monte-Carlo speed. The slower the surface, the more incredible the ralleys get.
     
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  43. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    You mean there weren't any incredible rallies during the Nadal-Djokovic match in Madrid? :-?
     
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  44. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Those 2 have in credible ralleys everywhere. They both bring out the best in each other. But Nadal couldn't play that way for his next match. He kept the points short.
     
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  45. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    So you admit it has nothing to do with the speed of the court. It has to do with the players.

    And, no, Nadal did not keep the points short in the final today. Federer kept the points short. Nadal wants the points to go as long as possible because the longer the points go, the more likely he'll win it.
     
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  46. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Nadal has no problem extending ralleys with Fed when he is 100%. Even in Madrid. Fed beat Nadal at 60% today and couldn't scramble like he normally does.
     
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  47. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    The ATP, I just don't get who runs it sometimes. *sigh*. It's almost as if the posters here at Tennis Warehouse could run the ATP better (that is, when we finally agree on the pressing issue of whether or not Nadal is a noob or the GOAT)
     
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  48. kimbahpnam

    kimbahpnam Hall of Fame

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    :roll: :roll: :roll:
     
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  49. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    I agree

    10 chars
     
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  50. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    love your statistical precision... second only to your physics...
     
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