Making 2012 PDR+ more arm friendly

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Marcus, Feb 28, 2013.

  1. Marcus

    Marcus Semi-Pro

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    Guys....
    I need to make the PDR+ work for me, the racquet is a perfect match for my game but I know it's going to hit my arm & shoulder hard.

    Obviously there are ways to improve the comfort such as strings and tension etc and setting it up more head light and heavier overall.

    I've used the Wilson shock shield grip and feel it is pretty effective at filtering out vibrations, it adds around 12g over a standard grip which is fine for me with the PDR+

    My main question is.... Would I be better off adding 12g of silicone to the handle or a Wilson shock shield grip ?

    As a secondary question I'm open to any suggestions to make the PDR+ more arm friendly....

    Thanks
    Mark
     
    #1
  2. BalboaNoah

    BalboaNoah New User

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    i think that the Shock Shield grip is a good start. it does two things: dampen the shock/vibration of impact; and adds weight to the handle portion which should offset the extra torque on your shoulder that's presented by the racquet's extended length. if you're new to the extended length then don't over swing at first, but build up your racquet speed gradually until your muscles (especially shoulder) gets accustomed to it.

    good luck!
     
    #2
  3. pennc94

    pennc94 Semi-Pro

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    Mass is mass. No difference in shock dampening if you use 12g silicone in handle versus the additional 12g shock shield grip.
     
    #3
  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Hit harder and go for winners sooner.
    Soften strings another 5 lbs.
    Increase your strength.
    Increase the grip size.
    Use a shock absorbing grip.
    Play softer hitting opponent's.
    Just kidding, sorry. That racket kills most player's arms and shoulders.
     
    #4
  5. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Bubble wrap it.
     
    #5
  6. BalboaNoah

    BalboaNoah New User

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    or try a PK Ki 5x. specs are super close.

    i've been toying around w/a regular length Ki5 and find it very Pure Drive-ish in pop, but with a comfortable pleasurable contact impact.
     
    #6
  7. makinao

    makinao Rookie

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    Been there. Done that. Killed arm. Gave up.
     
    #7
  8. Marcus

    Marcus Semi-Pro

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    Any more input guys ?
     
    #8
  9. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

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    What kind of arm problems are we talking about?

    If it is TE, there are proven treatments for that (twist bar).

    Otherwise, I would recommend natural gut.
     
    #9
  10. Marcus

    Marcus Semi-Pro

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    It's more my wrist, inner fore arm and shoulder really.... Not classic TE

    Thanks
     
    #10
  11. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    Try to inject 10 to 16grams of silicone inside the handle, +-20cm distance from the butcapp.
    It is used by many pro players with Babolat/Stiff rackets.
     
    #11
  12. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    I've had that - I used Prince RipSticks (29" racquets) for years but never had a problem until I switched to RPM Team at 60lbs - poly of course. Big wrist and forearm issues ensued.

    So...Tail weight it with the Wilson Shock Shield. Go 30 lbs on the string and 17 ga - poly can do that without trampolining the ball and with topspin you'll be fine.

    Get used to the swingweight and get used to the load on your arm and wrist and don't muscle the ball.

    I'm going to Prince Michael Changs (28") and 17 or 18 ga poly at 30 lbs. Should be a blast:)


    You'll be just fine.
     
    #12
  13. Marcus

    Marcus Semi-Pro

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    Hi
    I'm not sure I understand..... 20 cm from the butt cap ?

    Thanks
    Mark
     
    #13
  14. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    Hi Pennc 94 :)

    Yeah cool, I kinda get what you are saying here... but concentration and placement matters.

    1. With silicone you can concentrate the extra mass (about 10 grams switching a stock PD grip to a Wilson SS grip) into a 1" space right at the very end of the handle near the buttcap. With a heavier replacement grip that 10 grams is spread evenly along the entire 7" length.

    2. Vibration is movement. Mass at the far edges is more effective at altering dynamic flex, lowering vibration frequency, and lowering impact shock. In addition, one of the two primary bending nodes is located at about 7 inches from the buttcap, right at the top of the grip. In this location, the racquet vibrates very little, if at all. Since the frame isn't vibrating much right there anyways, you dont make things much more comfy by adding mass at the top of the pallete. See my photoshop image attached below. The image over simplifies what is happening a bit, because during impacts, the racquet is typically moving in at least one of these ways, and frequently all of these ways all at once. A - Translation (pushed straight back) B - Rotation around the center of mass in the throat. C - Vibration in the uniform beam pattern illustrated below. D - a wave pattern that travels down to the butt, and then returns. But the image does help to explain why, and how, concentration/placement of mass matters in this conversation.

    3. I love Wilson ShockSheild, that grip is awesome. It weighs 24 grams untrimmed, without the paper backing and without the 1/4 inch trim tape. Installed it's gonna be about 18-20 grams depending on your overlaps. it's also tacky enough to play without overgrips.

    4. Having said all of that.. I had Wilson Shocksheild and 30 grams in the pallete of my 2012 Babolat PD+. It still gave me my first case of TE in my 30 years of the court. It is what it is.

    [​IMG]

    -Jack
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
    #14
  15. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    Yes, inside the handle, measure +-20cm from the buttcap, then inject the silicone. I guess that after you try it, you will do it in all rackets... ;)
     
    #15
  16. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

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    For wrist, Making the racquet heavier is just going to make it worse...
     
    #16
  17. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

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    I would agree with this. Soft strings will help some-it's still a very stiff racquet.
     
    #17
  18. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    For these types of injuries, you need to go down in sw and heft.
     
    #18
  19. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    So according to this adding lead at 10 & 2 would provide very little vibe damping since it's right at the node? I've always preferred weight at 10 & 2 as it seems to change the way the racquet behaves the least, maybe this is why. But it certainly seems to absorb some shock and make the frame feel more solid and comfy. In my exp, adding lead at 3 & 9 seems to add the most comfort (seems to absorb the impact the most), and 12 the least, which would go against this. Are impact shock and vibration two separate factors?
     
    #19
  20. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    Hello Again Keith

    I apologize in advance for the lengthy reply. Lots of overlapping factors, and numerous scenarios at play. Regarding shock and vibration, there are a few different flavors, and it mostly depends on where the ball is striking the string bed.

    1. Impact shock: Is the very first initial jolt of the vibration wave pattern, and is strongest when you miss the sweet spot high. It's that first initial dull "thud" you feel most noticeably when you strike near the tip of the frame on a flat first serve. We all know what that feels like, and it's not pleasant. What is happening is the handle is being jerked forward in your hand violently, (as the racquet rotates around the center of mass in the throat) and your arm goes right along with it. The vibrations are what comes after that, and vibration occurs well after the ball has left the string bed. See my 2nd photoshop image below. Much more detailed explaination in the links below.

    2. Impacts in the sweet spots (COP+Node) : These two points are only a few centimeters apart, if you hit one you are probably hitting the other as well. There are some very fine differences btw the two sweet spots, but what it boils down to is that both shock and vibration are minimized when you hit center. The frame flexes a little bit, snaps back, but does not overshoot the center point, and finds equilibrium as a straight beam. Thats why you feel little or no vibration when hit on center. It's also why flexible frames are just as powerful as stiff frames when you hit the sweet spot (Yes I said that!). The racquet isn't vibrating very much in either case, so there isn't much kinetic impact energy being lost to frame vibration. Both impacts are pretty efficient. For more on flexible frames, stiff frames and racquet power see link #119 in the thread below.
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=455102&highlight=flexible&page=6

    3. Impacts off center low : You get the vibration in the uniform beam pattern, but now the frame is translating more (pushed straight back), and rotating less. There is impact shock and vibration here as well, but is a bit more muted than the sensation you experience when you miss high.

    4. Flexible frames travel a greater distance when they flex. This increases dwell time, and makes for a "softer landing" so to speak, when the ball strikes the string bed. Stiffer frames bend less on impact, dwell time is shorter, so this increases impact shock. Stiffer frames bend less, and the vibrations are happening much quicker. That's why the EXO Tour 100 18x20 has a vibration frequency of 123 cycles per second, and the 2012 PDR+ has a vibration frequency of 164 Hz. Given that spread, what we are talking about with customization is akin to fine tuning, rather than transformation.
    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/vibfrequency.cgi
    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/vibration_explanation.php
    http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/tennis.html

    5. On Adding mass and increasing flex and Dwell time: A recent study (see link below, and props to corners for bringing this to light first) has indicated that adding 30 grams of lead to the tip of a frame will drop the vibration frequency by 12 hz. While that can probably be felt, adding 30 grams to the tip is not typical and adds quite a bit of SW. If you assume (and that's a big assumption) that mass at the butt will be just as effective at lowering vibration frequency, as it is at the business end of the stick, that could make a noticeable "fine tuning" kind of a difference, but not a "transformational" type of difference in my estimation at least. Just to get a feel for the frame of reference here: A 2012 PD has a vibe frequency of 170. Exo Tour 100 is 123. Volk C-10 is 137. IG Prestige MP is 150. Another good reality check is simply looking at the PD vs the PDR. They are essentially the same frame, but one is heavier. The 2012 PD is sw 318 and 170hz, the PDR is sw 328 and 163 Hz. So in this case, with this frame, ten more SW units = drop in 7hz.
    http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/PUBLICATIONS/16. Customising.PDF

    6. Adding lead at the tip does nothing for stability on off center hits out toward the edges at 3-9, but adding mass at 3-9 does. That added stability is felt as a wider sweet spot, which is why mass out there feels more comfy. When you miss high, the impact shock will you always let know it, and you are likely to chalk it up to operator error. When you miss out towards 3-9 you dont always know it, but you feel the very real effect of an expanded sweetspot with mass there.

    [..]

    [​IMG]

    -Jack
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
    #20
  21. BalboaNoah

    BalboaNoah New User

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    Hi Jack,

    great stuff as always. just from personal observation i've found that when adding weight to the butt end of my racquets i tend to feel the vibrations more than when i put weight above my hand. while the frequency of vibrations may be assumed to be reduced with weight at the butt, for me the vibration waves seem to "want to end" at the added weight and i feel more of the "middle of the vibration waves" or so to speak.

    has anybody else noticed this if they've added a good amount of weight to the butt end of the racquet?
     
    #21
  22. Marcus

    Marcus Semi-Pro

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    Some great contributions..... Many thanks
     
    #22
  23. kazamzaa

    kazamzaa Rookie

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    The best advice was given to you at reply#6. Pro kennex ki5 315 is really PDR without the pain. There is a extended length version of it too as reply#6 tells. I use the normal version and it is super arm friendly. There is no trade off. The racquet is very good. I have not read many dislikes of it.
     
    #23
  24. goonieboy

    goonieboy New User

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    I got the exact same racquet today i just hope it won't be too hard on my arm but a few years ago i played with a aero pure drive and never had any problems so hopefully its going to be good
     
    #24

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