Mansewerz's Guide to Buying Stringing Machines

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Mansewerz, Aug 5, 2008.

  1. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    The following post is strictly my opinion. I will try to remain as objective as I can and become subjective when necessary. These are not the ultimate authority on any subject.

    Do I need a stringing machine?
    If you belong to any, but not limited to just one, of the following groups, then you may need a stringing machine.
    • My stringer charges $15 or more for basic synthetic gut
    • I want to save money on stringing
    • I break strings often
    • My racquets often come back from the stringer with varying tensions when they should be the same
    • My stringer damaged my frames
    • My frames are valuable to me and I trust myself taking care of them more than someone else
    • I have the time to string and like doing handy work
    • I'm willing to make an initial investment for a bare minimum of $135 (price is for a brand new basic stringer)
    • My stringer incorrectly strings my racquets
    • I'm interested in stringing. Some people, like myself and Diredesire like to work with their hands and like doing technical stuff. We enjoy that thing, and you may too.
    • I want to experiment with different string setups and be in charge of it. You don't want to pay someone else for the labor of every string job. (Note: This is where buying a stringing machine can cost you more money. You may get addicted to trying different string jobs, and instead of just stringing to have a racquet to use, you're a string fanatic! But still, it will still be cheaper to experiment with your own machine than the local stringer.)

    Now if you need a stringer, continue reading. If you don't, but you still would like to learn about stringers, continue reading. If you don't need a stringer and you're done learning about stringing machines, feel free to close this thread and do as you please.

    Types of stringing machines (Grouped by tensioners)

    Dropweights- Dropweights are tensioners that utilize gravity to tension a string. A weight is positioned on a rod connected to the machine according to tension, and "dropped" (the weight and bar should be allowed and assisted to fall down slowly and gently). Basic laws of physics apply here. If the bar drops and stops at a horizontal (parallel the floor) position, the string is tension to the desired weight, and the string should be clamped off, and then one goes on to tension the next string. If the bar does not fall to a parallel position, then the bar is lifted so that the grippers disengage, and let go of the string. Then you adjust the amount of slack of the string, put it back into the string gripper, and once again "drop" the dropweight. Repeat until horizontal. If the bar is above horizontal, give more slack. If below, give less slack.

    Some machines have a clutch mechanism (usually ratchet, or just silent like the Silent Partner dropweights) that allow the stringer to hold the tensioning drum, and lift the bar a little bit, and re-drop so to see if the bar will fall to parallel. Clutch mechanisms are designed so that the operator doesn't have to release the string and feed more or less slack. In a way, it helps lessen the workload of the operator in tensioning (especially for stringers that are just starting out. But hey, I always use my clutch, and i've strung on my machine for a while now.) This is only used when the bar falls below parallel. If it falls above parallel, adjust the slack, re-drop, and go on from there.

    Dropweights are usually the slowest type of tensioner, hence the reason why most basic machines are dropweights. Also, dropweights are pretty simple to use, and with practice, they can become a fast method for tensioning. The system itself is pretty simple as well. It's pretty much a lever with a weight. No locking mechanisms or complicated springs.

    Never, I repeat, never under any circumstances, force the bar down farther than it will freely go. Doing so can damage the string and the racquet, and, in some cases, forcing the bar can damage the machine. Also, the desired tension will not be reached. It will be much greater than the set tension.

    [​IMG]

    Cranks-Cranks, aka Lockout machines, are a tensioning mechanism that uses a pre-loaded spring to determine when proper tension is reached. There is a crank, that has a built in brake/locking mechanism. The stringer turns the crank until the tension is reached, then the brake is engaged and no longer allows the stringer to turn the crank, and then that string being tensioned is clamped off. The stringer then disengages the brake and tensions the next string.

    The mechanism is known as a "lockout" mechanism, which is why cranks are also known as "lockout" machines. Cranks are typically the fastest tensioner, but require more physical work than electronics or automatic dropweights. Note: When I say faster, I mean that they are able to tension strings more quickly. You should not turn the crank at full speed to quickly tension the string. A slow, consistent speed gives the most accurate results.

    [​IMG]

    Electronic tensioners-These are the high end tensioners that use a motor/microprocessor to tension a string. Pretty simple to use. Hit the button, the string is tensioned. Hit the button again, go tension the next string.

    Important Note: There is a difference between "electric" tensioners and tensioners controlled by the use of electronics, or an electronic tensioner for short. Simple electric tensioners work in a fashion similar to lockout machines. A preloaded reference spring is used to get the tensioner to stop pulling. Electronic tensioners use sophisticated, high end control electronics to sense a change in tension/load and adjust to those changes. This helps keep a "true", steady reference tension in each string. Lower end, electric machines typically don't sense these changes in loads, and if they do, they do it in a relatively poor manner. The lower end electric machines will typically be cheaper than the electronic machines.

    Electronic tensioners are rather fast, not quite on par with cranks, but they can be easier to use. Also, keep in mind that some electronic tensioners can be very slow to pull to refernce tension.

    [​IMG]

    Automatic dropweights-These are a rather new tensioning mechanism that utilizes a dropweight to tension a string, but unlike ordinary dropweights, as long as these don't fall all the way and bottom out, the angle of the tension rod/arm is irrelevant because proper tension will always be pulled. Auto dropweights have a special design that maintains the length of the string relative to the angle of the pull. This allows for this "any angle" constant pull. Today, only Laserfibre and Stringway produce machines utilizing this type of tensioner. Revolutionary? You decide.

    Automatic dropweights are much faster than regular dropweights. They can tension a string just as fast as a crank tensioner, but the fact that the weight has to be lifted back up to release the string after clamping causes it to be slower than a crank overall. However, it can still be a very fast type of tensioner.

    [​IMG]

    Constant Pull v.s. Lockout-Constant pull machines are machines whose tensioner pulls tension until proper tension is reached and continues to pull tension. The purpose of the constant pull is to maintain accurate tension in a string. It helps create a more consistent stringbed. Lockout machines are those that utilize a preloaded spring to stop the tensioner from continuing to pull tension and stop pulling tension once proper tension is reached.

    *A machine that uses constant tends to string a tighter than a machine that uses lockout technology. Likewise, it is vice versa for lockouts. If you ordinarily get your racquet strung with a lockout, then it is probably 5-10 % looser than if it was strung with a constant pull machine. Adjust accordingly when getting your racquet strung. This is a basic rule of thumb, and the reasons for it are complicated and I'd rather not explain it here. *

    Machines that use constant pull
    • Dropweights
    • Electronic machines
    • Automatic dropweights

    Machines that use lockout technology
    • Cranks
    • Certain Electric


    A quick note regarding lockout v.s. constant pull. If you're getting an electric/electronic machine, in my opinion, don't get one that uses lockout technology. It is just the same as a crank, but with a motor doing the cranking for you. (In essence).

    The crank will typically be cheaper than the lockout electric machine. The best way to tell if an electric machine is lockout v.s. constant pull is to check the description of the machine, or better yet, talk to the company's "Machine guy", for lack of a better word.

    It's typically user preference when selecting between an electric (lockout technology) and a crank. An electric can, theoretically, be more consistent by removing human error in tensioning, especially if you're getting lazy at the end of a long day of stringing.



    More to come in following posts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
    #1
  2. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    The following post is strictly my opinion. I will try to remain as objective as I can and become subjective when necessary. These are not the ultimate authority on any subject.

    Here are the different levels of stringing machines. I will give a few examples of each type, and my choice from each category if price was not an object and the one with the best features/quality. (I do not have experience with any of these machines except for the Silent Partner Swing and ATS Super stringer. The choices otherwise are based on reviews and things i've heard from various sources.)

    Entry Level Machines-Table top machines. Basic starting machines for those just stringing for themselves, those that want to learn how to string without going bankrupt, those that want to see if stringing is for them, and/or for those that just want something to get the job done. They come with a basic 2 point mounting, floating clamps, and a dropweight tensioner Some entry level machines may come with 6 pt mounting, for example the Gamma Progression II 602. (Note: Some of these machines come with the clutch mechanism.)
    Example(s):
    • Klippermate ($135 new, $125 for blemished version that works fine)
    • Gamma X-2 ($159)
    • ATS Super Stringer II (Gamma X-2 clone, just about the same exact thing, a bit cheaper at $159)
    • Silent Partner Swing ($199, $229 with shipping)
    • Gamma Progression II 602 ($339)

    Before anyone asks or makes another thread about the Gamma x-2 vs the Klippermate, read these.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=213813&highlight=klippermate
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=201408&highlight=klippermate
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=190359&highlight=klippermate


    [​IMG]

    My choice-The Silent Partner Swing.

    Reasoning-I own this machine as of now, and I have more experience with this machine.

    Honestly, pretty much all of these machines are very similar with the exception of the Gamma Progression II 602. The real selling point of each machine is typically the after sales service of the company, what kind of string/tool package each one comes with, and the quality of the flying clamps.

    These lower end, entry level machines fall short of higher end machines in the following categories:
    • Speed: Higher end machines typically operate quicker.
    • Clamping: Fixed clamps are typically more consistent and stable.
    • Mounting: The 2 point mounting systems can protect a racquet, but racquets deform more on the 2 point mounting systems (especially the entry level ones) than on 6 point mounting systems


    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=208444&highlight=silent+partner+swing
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=193352&highlight=silent+partner+swing
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=198293&highlight=silent+partner+swing
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=201133&highlight=silent+partner+swing



    Table Top 6 point mounting and fixed clamps-This is probably the best kind of dropweight you could get (not including automatic dropweights of course). Fixed clamps that are usually superior to flying clamps. They're more stable, and they don't depend on an anchor string (which isn't even that rigid in the first place). Also, there is no fixed clamping width, which makes the clamping system more flexible. The standard of 6 point mounting. Some come with linear grippers (more about them later). Most come with some sort of clutch mechanism. Sturdier turntables. For the price, you get a machine designed for a more predictable, repeatable operation. This "repeatable" factor improves the consistency of your string jobs from racquet to racquet. These machines protect your racquet more with their 6 point mounting systems. These machines provide many home stringers with a simple, yet durable, product.

    Examples:
    • Alpha Pioneer DC Plus ($429)
    • Gamma Progression II 602FC ($469)
    • Mutual Power Hercules 680 ($299)
    • Mutual Power Hercules 690 ($329)
    • Silent Partner Hip Hop ($379)

    Links:
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=203332&highlight=mutual+power+hercules
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=192765&highlight=gamma+progression



    [​IMG]

    My choice-Here, it's a split decision. It depends on what kind of customers I would have. It's split between the Silent Partner Hip Hop and the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus.

    Alpha Pioneer DC Plus

    Reasoning-Great quality. It comes with a linear gripper with a ratchet system, and the spring assisted clamps require less effort to use. The machine also comes with a pretty good package of tools (that you can choose) and a selection of strings. Finaly, Alpha is known for legendary customer service. When you call Alpha, ask for Mark G. Even if he's not there, the others guys, such as Greg, are also known to be very helpful.

    Links:
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=204971&highlight=alpha+pioneer+plus
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=104946&highlight=alpha+pioneer+plus
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=189544&highlight=alpha+pioneer+plus


    Silent Partner Hip Hop

    Reasoning-The mounting system is quicker. It controls both "outside" supports with one knob, opposed to two. Also it has a brake that helps with the stringing of O3 racquets. Silent Partner customer service is pretty good. I've had no troubles with them. It falls short of the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus in the gripper territory. It utilizes a rotational gripper (more on this later as well), but the clutch is silent. Also, the clamp bases take a little more effort to use (they're cone lock clamp bases).

    Links:
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=225419&highlight=silent+Partner+hip+hop
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=227088&highlight=silent+Partner+hip+hop



    More later, tired now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
    #2
  3. zidane339

    zidane339 Hall of Fame

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    Good job Mansewerz, I'll try to look it over and see if you missed anything.

    Mods, sticky?

    Shoot, I should of not replied so you can have consecutive posts for more info.
    I apologize Mansewerz if that screws you up.

    If it does, I can post your info on my post if you would like. Let me know.Sorry again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
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  4. YULitle

    YULitle Hall of Fame

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    Very nice. :D
     
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  5. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    behind you, but i have to be somewhere else by the
    nice solid guide, though it lacks some insite gained by actual use/encounter
     
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  6. zidane339

    zidane339 Hall of Fame

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    True, but I think Mansewerz has a lot of good secondhand knowledge. Not to mention, I don't think a person with hands on knowledge could add much more to what Mansewerz wrote.Its quite comprehensive!
     
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  7. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    behind you, but i have to be somewhere else by the
    its good, no doubt, but there are things about machines that you only know once you have used them, and just using them one is not always enough
    very subtle things like the diference between a prince crank and an alpha crank: the prince will stay where you leave it, the alpha will have the handle drop to the bottom, placing the crank wherever that position is
    little thing, but if you go back and forth certain habbits work on one and not the other
     
    #7
  8. xtremerunnerars

    xtremerunnerars Hall of Fame

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    I love you.



    Those automatic dropweights are pretty freakin sweet!
     
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  9. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    No worries zidane, as long as its in here. i agree with iplay, this is a good opportunity to contribute if you wish ( this goes for everyone )
     
    #9
  10. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    I guess this contribution redeems Mansewerz from his little LF joke in the other post.
     
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  11. JamesBond

    JamesBond Rookie

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    Thank you so much for this contribution. It's really a pleasure to see a genuine Stringway ML.100 T.92 on Talk Tennis
    With some good quality posts of personal experiences with this and the other machines mentionned, this thread has every chance of becoming a reference in the topic of Stringing Machines.
    I would be very pleased to participate if you would like me to.
    Thanks again,
    JB.
     
    #11
  12. theace21

    theace21 Hall of Fame

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    Make it a sticky - nice job...
     
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  13. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Of course. Any insight you have about this machine or machines of that sort are welcome here.
     
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  14. nadalfan!

    nadalfan! Professional

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    What about the rest of the guide when u gonna have it up?
     
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  15. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Working on it as we speak. Gathering info, formatting, and typing will take a bit.
     
    #15
  16. JediMindTrick

    JediMindTrick Professional

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    Are the cranks really faster than electronics?
     
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  17. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    I've heard so from YULitle. Crap, I can't find the actual post, but I remember him saying something like that when I asked.
     
    #17
  18. BCEagle01

    BCEagle01 New User

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    Thanks for taking the time! Looks like the beginnings of a really great thread.
     
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  19. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Level of Stringing Machines (continued)

    Here are more categories/levels of stringing machines.

    Table top cranks-If you're going to string more than a few rackets per week, say 5-10 racquets per week, these machines are for you. A standard these days for table top cranks are sturdy turntables, fixed clamps (spring assisted or not), 6 point mounting, and most times, a table brake. Cranks allow you to string much faster, so if you're short on time, get a crank. Note: Most tabletop cranks come with a screw brake. Although it works well, they're inferior to disc brakes.

    Also, remember that cranks are capable of being faster, but shouldn't be cranked faster just to go faster. Crank at a moderate, consistent speed. Cranks can also be less physically demanding because you are turning a handle rather than lifting a dropweight.

    Examples:
    • Alpha Revo 4000 ($599)
    • Silent Partner Crump ($499)
    • Gamma Progression ST II ($679)
    • Gamma X-ST ($699)

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=205106&highlight=gamma+progression
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=202558&highlight=gamma+progression
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=200986&highlight=silent+partner+crump
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=195612&highlight=silent+partner+crump


    [​IMG]

    My choice-The Alpha Revo 4000

    Reasoning-The Alpha Revo 4000 is one of the most praised machines on this board. Great value for the money. Mounting is top notch. The clamps work well, and service of Alpha is known as one of the best. Besides, there's a reason they're always on backorder.

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=188440&highlight=alpha+revo
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=200161&highlight=alpha+revo


    Table Top Electrics-Table top electrics are table top machines that use an electric tensioner. These are usually inferior to higher end electronic tensioners by a long shot. They're usually not true constant pull, and even the Gamma machines, which use the same tensioner, lock out to a certain degree. For more information, refer to the electric tensioner descriptions. Coming standard with 6 point mounting and fixed clamps.

    (I put table top electrics right after table top cranks because I believe that a machine with a stand beats any kind of table top assuming that it works just as well.)

    Please Note: The Gamma Machines ARE constant pull, but they use spring loaded constant pull rather than traditional load sensor constant pull.

    Examples:
    • Gamma Progression ES II+ ($979)
    • Gamma X-ES ($999)
    • Silent Partner Jive ($699)

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=204980&highlight=tabletop+electric
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=209107&highlight=table


    [​IMG]

    My choice- Gamma Progression ES II+

    Reasoning- Haven't heard any faults with this machine. Not sure if the Gamma progression tables' problems occur here too. YULitle has firsthand experience with this machine, so it's best you ask him. But, the tool tray is tiny. Also, there is no brake on this machine. The Gamma X-ES may be the better option as it has a bigger tray, but the machines are pretty much similar.

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=209413&highlight=gamma+progression
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=191223&highlight=gamma+progression


    Stand alone Cranks-These are the machines with the stands and crank tensioners. More often than not, you'll find these in a pro shop. Here is where we get nitpicky. The price range is very large because there are little features like self centering mounts, disc lock brakes, wheels, etc, that call for different machines from the same company. I've chosen to keep this as one category because in the end, they're all cranks with a stand. Again, the standard of fixed clamps applies here, but 6 point mounting is NOT universal here. You'll notice 2 point mounting, 4 point mounting, and 6 point mounting here. I'll provide a link on such a topic later.

    Examples:
    • Prince Neos 1000 ($1100)
    • Gamma 6004 ($1299 2 or 6 pt mounting)
    • Alpha Apex 2 ($1099)
    • Alpha Axis Pro ($799)

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=211517&highlight=machine+stand
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=193915&highlight=machine+stand
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=192205&highlight=machine+stand
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=162933&highlight=machine+stand


    [​IMG]

    My choice-The Alpha Apex 2.

    Reasoning-This machine has spring assisted clamp bases, and a self centering mounting system. The six point mounting system is usually considered more secure, and protects the racquet better. Also, the disc lock brake is easier to use than the screw brake. Honestly, at this point, the machine choices are more user preference. The Neos' two point mounting system allows for more deformation, but takes away the trouble of blocked holes, and it will protect racquets as well. Plus the thing is a workhorse.

    Any of the machines in this category work well. I simply prefer the Apex 2.
    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=197584&highlight=alpha+apex
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=188814&highlight=alpha+apex
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
    #19
  20. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Levels of Machines (continued)

    Here's some more levels of stringing machines.

    "Entry Level" Electronic machines on a stand- I call these entry level because they're electronic machines, but not quite the really high end ones pros use. Again, like stand alone cranks, they come with pretty much the same features, only difference is the electronic tensioner.

    Also, all of these machines use sophisticated electronic tensioners. They have load sensing electronics (uProcessors) that detect minute changes in tension. They are significantly better than table top electrics and cranks.

    Lastly, the biggest feature of these machines is they have true constant pull technology.

    Examples:
    • Silent Partner Aria ($1599)
    • Silent Partner e.Stringer DG ($999)
    • Gamma 6500 ELS ($1799)

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=139991&highlight=silent+partner+estringer
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=203426
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=194414&highlight=gamma+6500


    [​IMG]

    My choice-Silent Partner Aria

    Reasoning-It comes with 3 tooth clamps and spring assisted clamps. Silent partner has great service. Unique, yet safe gripper. However, the brake is a screw brake, not a disc lock brake. Also, the mounting side posts are controlled with one knob, but i'm not sure if the whole mounting system is self centering. Regardless, the machine has true constant pull technology. Price is cheaper than Gamma, but a used one in good condition can run for $1000.

    Quick Note: If the tension input is digitally controlled, odds are the machine uses a sophisticated electronic tensioner. The lockout electric tensioners typically use a knob to set the tension on a spring.

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=93734&highlight=silent+partner+aria
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=175738&highlight=silent+partner+aria


    Professional Level Electronic Stringing Machines-Ladies and Gentleman, the creme de la creme. These are the machines that are high quality, used in pro shops, and not easy on the wallet. They have features making all other machines look simple. Electronic tensioners, various mounting systems, and top of the line clamps and turntables. A stringer's dream!

    Features-wise, the Silent Partner Aria and DG are similar. However, these pro level machines are typically faster, self calibrating, have little convienient touches, and have higher quality parts and electronics.

    Examples:
    • Prince 3000 (Price????)(Ask iplaybetter about his)
    • Babolat Star 5 ($3000)
    • Tecnifibre TF7000 ($6000)
    • Silent Partner Opus ($2799)

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=127541&highlight=silent+partner+aria
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=106171&highlight=silent+partner+opus
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=195904&highlight=tf7000


    [​IMG]

    My choice- Babolat Star 5

    Reasoning-The Babolat Star 5 is one of the standards for Pro level machines. YULitle and flash9 have used this machine before. Great guys to ask about this machine. The tensioner is built for speed, and the 3 tooth clamps with their clamp bases have minimal drawback. The table utilizes unique, curved rails, but they hold firmly. Babolat has great customer service, and they are a proven name in the business. This machine is designed to help the stringer.

    Once again, the differences between these machines are user preference. Each machine may be nearly identical to another with the smallest difference. I would love to have any of machines to string on.

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=182112&highlight=tf7000
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=131503&highlight=babolat+star


    Wise 2086 Tension Head-The Wise 2086 is an aftermarket electronic tension head. It retails for $495. You can get it with the foot pedal as well. There are many features, but there are disadvantages too. One disadvantage is the loss of 360 degree table rotation. Most people add a Wise onto a crank machine to get constant pull. One option when buying a machine is getting a crank and a wise instead of an electronic.

    Some people also add the Wise to certain dropweights. The Eagnas Challenger I has a bracket designed to accomodate the Wise (bracket is available from Wise), but others require self fabricated brackets.

    There are quite a few threads on the Wise tension head. Decide for yourself if it's for you.

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=212236&highlight=wise+2086
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=211552&highlight=wise+2086
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=206646&highlight=wise+2086
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
    #20
  21. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    A quick statement or two about varioius companies

    A general statement or two about various companies.

    Alpha-Alpha is known for great customer service. Mark G. is known to be very helpful. He is also a member of Talk Tennis :D.
    He also responds to e-mails very quickly.

    Silent Partner-I've dealt with them just like many others, and no problems whatsoever. Steve has been helpful and even sent a tracking number for my shipment upon request. They're located in Canada.

    ATS sports-ATS was very helpful with my first machine purchase. They called me to let me know that I could get free shipping with $50 worth of strings. They called me after I purchased my machine, and they even gave me a discount on the strings. They could have just left me without any strings and charged shipping, but they look out for customers.

    Gamma-I've heard that ATS=Gamma. Gamma has no problems from what i've heard. They even have a technician that frequents these boards to help out. His username is Gamma Tech.

    Eagnas-This is where I won't keep it short and sweet. Eagnas is often referred to on these boards as a company with horrible customer service and way too many machines. They sell their machines for a cheaper price, yet a lot of times, you get horrible quality and bad customer service.

    However, there are many that give positive reviews to Eagnas. As it turns out, they have a few machines that are quite reliable, and for some odd reason, they give great customer service with them! In my opinion, going with Eagnas is a gamble. However, when choosing their reliable machines, it's most likely a gamble you will win. Eagnas is a strange company, but with proper knowledge, you can get a whole lot of bang for your buck when dealing with Eagnas.

    Note: It often helps if you can go to the actual warehouse (in California) when purchasing your machine.

    Eagnas Machines worth looking at:
    • Eag-300
    • Flex 940

    Links
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=213954&highlight=eagnas
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=202901&highlight=eagnas
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=213294&highlight=eagnas
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=209612&highlight=eagnas
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
    #21
  22. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Miscellaneous

    Things about machines that you should also know.

    2 point mounting v.s 6 point mounting- A very long debate. Instead of writing a whole section on this, check out this thread.
    Debate: 2 vs 6 point

    Talk Tennis Message Board's "Verdict":6 point mounting systems are generally superior to 2 point/4 point because they protect the frame at more locations. However, improper mounting on ANY system will deform or even damage a racquet. All of these mounting systems will keep the racquet from breaking and protect it to a certain extent, but some do better jobs than others.

    Linear Gripper v.s. Rotational Gripper-A linear gripper uses 2 paddles that close together when tensioning to hold the string.
    [​IMG]

    A rotational gripper uses a drum in which the string is wrapped around the jaws and as tensioning occurs, the string causes the jaws to close on themselves.

    [​IMG]

    A linear gripper requires less string to tension, but it can cause more damage to a string because a flaw in the design can cause inadequate/too much gripping, or the gripper might be adjusted to too tight/loose of a setting. The rotational requires more string to tension, but is often gentler on the string. The kinks in the string that occur with a rotational gripper are very minor and are typically gone after tensioning.

    Links
    Linear gripper v.s Rotational gripper


    Fixed Clamps v.s Flying clamps-Flying clamps (aka floating clamps) hang off the string and use the adjacent string for support. Fixed clamps are fixed to a base and hold one string at a time. They're generally more consistent, more stable, and more expensive. Fixed clamps usually have less drawback than flying clamps. Also, they don't have to open very wide to hold strings, and they can have diamond dusted gripping surfaces to reduce clamping force to hold the string. Fixed clamps also resist twisting more than flying clamps, meaning there is a more consistent tension in the stringbed.

    Flying clamps, however, are faster than fixed clamps. They're also known as "speed clamps."

    Stringway (Laserfibre carried these for some time as well, but not anymore) flying clamps are the best in the industry. They even have a triple flying clamp to nearly neutralize drawback. But, these clamps are rather expensive.

    Klippermate and Silent Partner clamps are on par as the second best clamps on the market. These are much cheaper than the Stringway flying clamps.

    Gamma's flying clamps are a bit bulkier, and can be a little more cumbersome, but they can get the job done.

    The Prince flying clamp comes with the Neos 1000 and is "cheap" and plasticy, but it too gets the job done.

    Picture of Flying clamp (sorry, can't have more than 4 pics per post): http://www.photostringer.com/images/SAM_Flying_Clamp.jpg

    3 tooth fixed clamps are considered by some to be superior to 5 tooth fixed clamps because they can fit in a smaller area and are usually of higher quality. This is, however, user preference.

    3 tooth fixed clamps
    [​IMG]

    5 tooth fixed clamps

    [​IMG]

    Flying clamps v.s Fixed Clamps
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
    #22
  23. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    A Final Note

    Thanks to all whose threads I borrowed and pics I borrowed for this thread. Hopefully this thread will help many in their search for a stringing machine. Remember, just like with tennis racquets, a stringing machine is a tool. Higher end machines allow you to give a good, consistent string job that keeps the racquet safe without as much work as a lower end machine, but a lower end machine can do a quality job, albeit not quite as accurate and repeatable. What matters is the stringer doing the actual stringjob. It's always about the stringer. Remember, consistency is key.

    Thanks guys!
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
    #23
  24. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Does anything important seem to be missing? i can go back and edit stuff. Like I can quote a post of information and edit my posts to paste those in there.
     
    #24
  25. william7gr

    william7gr Professional

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    This might just make up for your evil prank the other day. (I said might)
     
    #25
  26. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    LOL, I got pranked back! And the thread was closed.
     
    #26
  27. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    behind you, but i have to be somewhere else by the
    in my mind, and the minds of some others, their is a big gap between the 2 and the 4/6

    you might also want to go into the isue of inside versus outside, the the demi 6pt system (SP)
    also address the issue of manufactures inflation of suport point count
     
    #27
  28. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    5-10 is a bit much, in practice it is 2-4, this is what my customers did with the switch from the revo to the prince
     
    #28
  29. YULitle

    YULitle Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ Practice is 10%
     
    #29
  30. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    yes, thats the figure advised by the usrsa but my customers have dropped 2-4 lbs on average, that is the practical application for me
     
    #30
  31. zidane339

    zidane339 Hall of Fame

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    I was wondering about the lockout v. CP figure also. Thought 5-10% was accepted difference, not 5-10lbs. Thanks for clearing that up.
     
    #31
  32. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Oh crap, i'll be sure to fix that. come to think of it, 5-10 lbs does seem like a lot. As for the rest, hopefully I can add stuff tomorrow. Unless one of you wants to do a more formal version of iplaybetter, and then i'll quote it and edit it into there. :)
     
    #32
  33. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    new stuff
    glide bars vs. dual action swivel clamps
    this is an issue of limited relevance as the number of machines produced with glide bar style clamps, is low. That said, one of, if not the most reliable workhorse in the industry is the prince neos 1k.
    glide bar:[​IMG]
    dual action swivel:[​IMG]
    I am in the fairly unique position of stringing about halve of my rackets on each type, each has its own pros and cons, the glide bars are faster due to the single action locking system, they are also fussy, and are inefficient for
    ATW stringing, and they necesicitate the use of flying clamps on fan pattern rackets. Dual action swivel clamps, can take more time to lock/unlock, but general allow for smoother operation.
    excluding flying clamps, three exceptions remain, each one is rare,
    360 glide bar:[​IMG]

    semi automatic bases: found on the prince 5000, and the babolat sensor, they have a feature that unlocks the base when the clamp falls as a result of being removed from the string

    automatic bases: the rarest of them all, these are found on only a handful of machines, such as the babolat sensor expert, and the babolat 5502

    the two styles of outside mounting 6pt systems:
    two main styles are available: self centering 6pt (see below babolat) and the individually adjusted arm system (see revo) wich requires you to turn a knob for each of the support arms
    the self centering system is considered to be better for its speed and consistency
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2008
    #33
  34. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    cleaned up from the other thread
    2pt vs. 4pt vs. 6pt:{i realize you covered this but I would like to set straight the 4pt system}
    2pt generally is not as good as the 4 or 6, that said, if you mount it right with any system the racket should be fine, stringing is a lot of stress for a frame. The two most commonly sighted systems in threads debating superiority are the babolat 6pt and the prince 4pt(commonly miss called a 2pt)
    babolat: [​IMG]
    prince(sorry its big):[​IMG]




    common beliefs, confirming and dispelling:
    A)electric is superior
    Electrics have advantages and disadvantages, the difference between an e-stringer and a sensor is huge. It is not the energy it uses to tension the string, but the manner in which it performs this task. High end electric machines use a constant pull system that creates a very consistent and more repeatable string bed.The lower-end electronic machines are lockout-type machines (see below) and can have tension variances depending on the consistency of the electricity

    B)A more expensive stringing machine does a better job
    The stringing machine is only a small part of the equation, any of the elite stringer on this board will do a "better" job on a klipper than a rookie stringer on a sensor.

    C)you get what you pay for
    this is generally true, see the final point for more on this!

    D) lock out machines are inferior
    this is not a hot topic, but it is one worth talking about, the lockout type machine will produce a less consistent stringbed than a CP machine, this is for two major reasons: the first is the influence of crank speed on tension, the second is the lack of compensation for string elongation
    this said, they are in no way inferior, mearly different
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2008
    #34
  35. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Wouldnt 2-4 lbs be around 5-10 percent of 50lbs?
     
    #35
  36. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    yes, but one of my best players who strung at 62 now strings at 60, the most anyone has dropped is like 3lbs
     
    #36
  37. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Those are some great posts full of good info iplay. I would quote those, but I think the text limit would be exceeded in certain posts if I did, as would the picture limit. Still, as long as it's in here, it will be useful.
     
    #37
  38. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Mansewerz - "A linear gripper causes less damage to the string because you don't have to wrap the string around it which bends the string and causes kinks (sharp bends in the string). Also, the linear gripper is pretty simple to use. Just put it in, and tension."

    Rotational grippers do not bend the string or cause kinks in the string.

    The clamps on any stringing machine are more likely (than any gripper) to cause string damage if they aren't adjusted properly.
     
    #38
  39. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Put some poly into a rotational gripper and watch the string turn into a white color at the point that it is fed into the jaws after being wrapped and tell me that no bending is occuring there.
     
    #39
  40. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    May I reccomned after all required info is gathered to just start a new thread and then post all info at the beggining.

    First post maybe ask poeple not to reply for 30 minutes or something. that way all this info (very nice info as well) can all be in order and not on 2 or 3 diff pages.

    Just one mans opinion that too lazy to read 3 pages of stuff :)
     
    #40
  41. BigApple

    BigApple Banned

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    The Babolat Star 5 isn't self centering. In fact there are three types of outside 6pt mounting. The Star 5, is suspension mounting, the Revo is self adjusted, and machines like the Gamma 8800 ELS is self centering. The difference is that the 2 posts at 12 and 6 move simultaneously when you turn the knob on either side of the turntable. ;)

    Hope that helps!

    -BA
     
    #41
  42. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    you make a wonderful point, i forgot to mention the suspension stuff, and i ment self centering in the sence that the racket is always centered becaus the arms move in together

    i will fix it
     
    #42
  43. YULitle

    YULitle Hall of Fame

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    What?

    There is a machine that moves both center billiards at the same time?
     
    #43
  44. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    it apears that the post move, not the mount, the prince 2k had that feature i belive, i think its a large screw, with threads that reverse int he middle, underneath the turntable
     
    #44
  45. BigApple

    BigApple Banned

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    You'd be pretty surprised how much more a racquet deforms on 2 pt mounting versus 6 pt mounting when only the mains are installed. Obviously all that changes when you install the crosses!

    -BA
     
    #45
  46. BigApple

    BigApple Banned

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    Just got one in at the shop. Was pretty surprised when I first used the 8800 ELS, but once I got used to it, I was banging out 3-4 sticks and hour!

    -BA
     
    #46
  47. YULitle

    YULitle Hall of Fame

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    What locks them in place once they reach the destination? Friction?
     
    #47
  48. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    check out this:
    http://www.g r a n d s l a m s t r i n g e r s . c om/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1212875889/15

    remove spaces
     
    #48
  49. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Hollywood, you make a good point. I wonder if a mod could possibly move stuff into other parts of a thread, so hopefully we can keep this one going. I understand though.
     
    #49
  50. ryangoring

    ryangoring Professional

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    Just asking MANSEWERZ...what would you recommend a beginner stringer like myself use, but in electric, inexpensive but of good value?
    And may I throw in, any other type of machine drop weight or crank.
    I would only string my own and maybe every couple of months I would do that.
     
    #50

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