Marcelo Rios worthy of Hall of Fame?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Gonzalito17, May 9, 2013.

  1. Tshooter

    Tshooter Hall of Fame

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    "...and Rios is not remembered how he should be, as a great player and an important player in tennis history."

    Scoop, any player would be lucky to have you as their PR guy/cheerleader. I just wish you had a better product because outside of Chile and some tennis nuts, there aren't three people that remember or care about this turd. If Rios is "great" then the word has been watered down and he is of no importance to the history of the game. But, hey, people have written interesting books about Spadea so I suppose any player can be worthy of a book.

    Also, citing your own book to support your out of book statements is circular.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  2. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Nothing you have posted in this thread proves Rios was great at anything.
     
  3. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    No. 1 in the world in the ATP, ahead of Sampras, Agassi, etc, is not a great achievement?
     
  4. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Jan Michael Gambill on Rios:

    Question: A lasting memory of Rios?

    Gambill: "I think watching him play was always a pleasure. I watched his matches quite often. The guy, frankly, was brilliant. A lot of players don't live up to their potential but I think he could have done so much more. I think if he had a little better serve, he could have been #1 for a long time. Because his ground strokes, his ability to create angles from seemingly nothing was incredible."

    Question: You played him at his very best, in the midst of his Indian Wells-Miami streak.

    Gambill: "We were both playing very good tennis. He won 6 and 4, one break in the second set. At the time, I didn't feel like anybody could beat me from the baseline. He beat me from the baseline. I had just beaten Andre the match before that, and Courier before that. Those guys were good ground strokers. And what do you say to that? He took me out on the court, just running me off the court. Using angles where other guys weren't doing that to me."

    Question: You played all the best - Sampras, Agassi, Courier - where does Rios at his best stack up with them?

    Gambill: "Well, for me, at his best, Andre was the toughest for me. He simply did - except for serve - I served a little bigger than him - but he returned it like he didn't care. Andre did everything that I did a little bit better. I played Andre 13 times and I only played Rios twice. So my catalogue of memories has a lot more memories of Andre and how many times he beat me - 11 of those 13. Rios is right up there. He won't get the credit because he didn't win the Slams. It's that simple. It's the end-all, you just don't get the credit if you don't win Slams. It's just bizarre. Because I feel I had a damn good career that was ended by injuries. Not as good as Rios' was but it was still good. You just kind of fade away if you don't win any Slams. That's just the way it is."

    Question: But talent-wise, Rios was right there?

    Gambill: "Oh, absolutely. His talent may have been the top of all time. Right there. Sometimes he had a bad attitude, frankly, which didn't help him."

    (From the book Marcelo Rios: The Man We Barely Knew)
     
  5. Tshooter

    Tshooter Hall of Fame

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    Apart from perpetuating the thread and keeping your Rios book talked about, itself a legitimate goal obviously (at least for you), I've no idea the point of these JMG quotes from your book (which, as I said previously, is circular or maybe a tautology is more precise -- I defer to the logicians) to support your present argument concerning Rios' alleged "greatness."

    This quote doesn't help your argument, the contrary. Gambill says, essentially, greatness is measured by Slam results (I would agree post some date, which I would put around 1990 but others might put earlier) not raw talent. So Gambill points out that Rios won't get the [proper] credit because he didn't do squat at Slams. I agree and I agree. And Gambill infers that Gambill didn't do squat at Slams so despite his self-described good career no one remembers him either. I agree there as well.

    If talent were the measure of tennis greatness we'd be discussing Monfils as a GOAT candidate. And, yes, reaching number 1 even for a split second like Rios did or Moya is a great achievement but it doesn't by itself equate to being one of the great players throughout the years or even of a particular generation.

    There, I helped keep the post alive. Your welcome.
     
  6. Mike Bulgakov

    Mike Bulgakov Semi-Pro

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    Caroline Wozniacki was a finalist at a major and spent far more time at number one than Rios. Should she be in the Hall of Fame based on her career so far? Rios was a jerk and a twit with a short period of success. Despite his talent, he has no lasting legacy in the game.
     
  7. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Rios was a great player, the best in the world for a stint during a tough era, Fed was a big fan, He beat Agassi twice in big matches, the list goes on, five Masters Series titles. Important player in tennis history, should not be forgotten.
     
  8. Tshooter

    Tshooter Hall of Fame

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    You need to tweek your bot. It just repeats the same lines ad nauseum.
     
  9. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Rios wasn't great? Here's what Andre Agassi said after their famous 1998 Miami final...

    After the match, Agassi answered questions about Marcelo Rios...

    Question. Do you think it's going to take you a few times playing a guy like him? Seemed like you were having trouble reading his shot. Was it your game being off or, "This guy is good, I'm going to have to play him a few times"?

    ANDRE AGASSI: I definitely had trouble reading some of his forehands. When I would hit my backhand crosscourt, I had trouble having a sense for when to cut it off and take it up the line. Sometimes he was flicking it up the line. A little trouble reading his serve, his forehand, wasn't quite pulling the trigger on my own shots. He's the kind of guy that you can't wait for him to miss; you've got to be able to take it to him. I didn't quite do it. I mean, I was hitting the ball okay, but I wasn't stepping in and really getting good wood on it.

    Question. Andre, how much did it hurt you not to have played a couple big finals, be on a regular roll when you come to this stage?

    ANDRE AGASSI: Honestly, I felt like it had more to do with Marcelo than that particular situation. You know, you have to address him like a big player. I was going out there and playing him like he's five foot eight. I thought I could back him into the paint. The bottom line is, you know, he doesn't play his size. He has good stick, he moves well, serves better than you expect. You know, he puts you in a position to have to do something early in the point. That's to his credit.

    Question. A match like this, long rallies, two guys who weren't six-foot-four hitting 180 miles an hour serves, how good is this for tennis in the United States?

    ANDRE AGASSI: It's nice. You know, I never thought we'd see a player as good as Marcelo again after Chang. He plays well. Brings another dimension to tennis. It's nice for me as a competitor to get out there and play that kind of tennis. It really forces you to think, forces you to move, forces you to execute. I think it's good for the game. There's no question about it, especially in America where, you know, people tend to be a bit -- have more options for big-time sports, they don't want to tune into tennis if they're watching a big serve here, a big serve there. This is good for tennis all-around, especially here.

    [Book excerpt]
     
  10. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    i think agassi, who was on a very good streak despite his low ranking at the time, was indeed surprised that a player could beat him a bit "at his own game" (taking the ball early, that is... without forgetting the additionnal "rios touch", of course). didn't he also mention that rios' lefty serve was giving him lots of problems ?

    but i think you're making a bit a big deal out of that match: i don't think agassi's confidence was really affected. he was coming back from very far, was ready to take some blows... and i'd imagine he rather took a lot of positive energy from this good streak in early 1998.

    great posts, mus' and matt ! [​IMG]

    when we look at the career best rankings of the players who defeated him at the slams, it's nothing to be ashamed of:
    • #7 for berasategui (the basque FH machine probably played his best hard court slam)
    • #1 for safin (what a first slam appearance it was with those 3 epic 5-setters against agassi, kuerten and pioline !)
    • #2 for haas (still out there !)
    • #6 for kucera (it was clearly his best season)

    that's an interesting question... seems connors was jumping a bit, but definitely not as much as chang !

    i found this interesting post in the no-less interesting "signature strokes thread":
    (... and what about the jumping 1HBH, by the way ? i remember philippoussis hitting some impressive shots like this !) :)
     
  11. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Agassi definitely expected to manhandle Rios, he said it in quote before the match with Rios, asking confidently if Rios would be able to Dr. Feelgood him. SO when he was the one who got manhandled it had to have an humbling effect to some degree.

    Agassi never could get over the hump the rest of 1998. Losing again to Rios in Germany in the Grand Slam Cup final in five sets also.
     
  12. pjonesy

    pjonesy Professional

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    Rios Hall of Fame

    Pro
    1)Richard Williams has nothing to gain by building up Rios. Williams does have an eye for talent and his comments do carry some weight. Gambill, Agassi and Federer competed against him and praised his talent. Basically, he had the respect of his peers on the tennis court.
    2)Attained #1 ranking.
    3)Brought attention to Chilean tennis (I know it is a stretch).

    Cons
    1)Only 7 titles.
    2)No success on grass
    3)Terrible attitude
    4)No Major titles

    I just can't put him in the Hall of Fame. He squandered his considerable talent and did not win a Major. Even if we try to focus on what he did ON the court, you have to consider that he did not carry himself as a gentleman. Do we want that kind of person representing the tennis hall of fame?
     
  13. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    McEnroe, Nastase, Connors, Hingis, Capriati, etc all have been involved in episodes which poorly represent the grace of the sport. That should not disqualify Rios. Being #1 in the world is one helluvan achievement. Especially when Sampras and Agassi were in their primes.
     
  14. classic tennis

    classic tennis Semi-Pro

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    I still have the image of Rios walking the main sreet of Gstaad after a loss swinging his racquet at every potted plant on his way back to the player hotel. The locals had worked so hard to make the town beautiful and he couldn't have given a Sh-T.
    In answer to the question IMO No.
     
  15. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    how could you defend the destruction of innocent plants,
    Gonzalito? ;)
     
  16. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    More than enough reason he should not be in the HoF.
     
  17. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Inanimate objects. At least he didn't kick a dog or body slam a little old lady. :)
     
  18. vandre

    vandre Hall of Fame

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    essentially, it seems like the question is: does ranked number 1 merit entry into the hof with references from other players/ "people in the know"? any rules or exceptions we apply to rios today with likely be used for future players tomorrow. are posters okay if jj (jankovic) or wozzy get in because they were no. 1 (for many weeks) without winning a major??? I ask because they catch a bunch of flak for that very reason.

    in the past, it would seem that the magic bullet for the hof is winning a slam (even if it is only 1 slam in the case of chang). in fact, after he retired I posted a poll here asking if posters thought Roddick would get into the hof. a lot of people said yes basically because he had won a slam. if that is the standard that most fans of the game and the voting body of the hof adhere to, all the talent in the world won't get rios in.

    as far as talent goes, evaluating talent can sometimes be very subjective (ask the Oakland Raiders scouting staff).
     
  19. pjonesy

    pjonesy Professional

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    I believe Chang got in for a few reasons unrelated to his success on the tour. A great representative of the 2nd Golden Age of American Men's tennis. A great representative of tennis in China or for Asians in general.

    Did Rios have that big of an effect on Chilean tennis?

    Yes. My comments regarding his talent are subjective. Focus on his accomplishments and it's a close call
     
  20. swedenparty

    swedenparty Rookie

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    The thing is, if Rios get in HOF, Kafelnikov should be there before him.
     
  21. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Rios did have a massive effect on Chilean tennis. He inspired the success of Massu and Fernando Gonzalez who won gold medal in singles and doubles in 2004 Olympics. I believe it was the first medals in Chilean history.
     
  22. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Kafelnikov should have been in already years ago. Two majors, OLY gold, Davis Cup, ATP no. 1 ranking. Hall of Fame voters somehow forgot to elect Kafelnikov.
     
  23. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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  24. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    If they let that weasel in, count on an official protest being filed with the HOF Committee followed by a demonstration at the induction ceremony. And you can bet it will get really ugly.

    I mean it's bad enough they let in a coke head and a flagrant cheater ('72 Davis Cup) this year.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. pjonesy

    pjonesy Professional

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    Sounds like you know what you are talking about. So that would be another feather in Rios' cap and a reason he should be considered for the hall of fame.

    I'm still not saying he should be in the hall of fame, but that would be an argument for him.
     

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